Your Water will be shut off!!

[poobert]

Count me in the "pay your bills or lose your shit" category, however:

DWSD badly bungled this shutoff parade.

In late spring, they essentially unilaterally declared they were going to go after these unpaid accounts, no holds barred. This was essentially ignoring the political consequences of the most impoverished, bankrupt, blighted city in the Western world having its citizens losing water. Pretty amateurish.

When as a municipality you invoke the wrath of the UN, you're doing it wrong. This initiative had all the finesse of prison rape. Introduce the fucking assistance and payment programs BEFORE you cut off peoples' water, not after, you idiots.

As I've stated before, I'm in the military. I'm gone for periods of time without internet. Having my account set on autopay, something completely standard in the civilized world, was a nightmare flurry of e-mails and phone calls. Can you imagine someone without means and less-educated having to deal with someone equally less-educated with the DWSD, both trying to figure out payment arrangements? God help us.

It was sophomoric. It's a travesty. Firstly, yes, you must pay your bill. However the infrastructure must be in place first to allow you to do so in a reasonable manner. Both efforts, which have been managed in the Western world effortlessly for decade upon decade, are beyond the ability of Detroit.

This is why we will never succeed. We will never come back. We cannot manage basic infrastructure. This city and this state do not deserve to exist.

[Zacha341]

I found that whole comment annoying as it is such a stereotype! For me I spend fairly frugally, have an Iphone 4 [[I don't need the newest) and try to stay on top of my bills. Though there was and is a percentage of folk embedded in the 'culture' of not paying their water bills, etc. that is not the narrative of all black people. Absolutely not!

"Black people with iPhones" who are not paying their water bills or "black people with iPhones" in general?

Anyone with nice things but with unpaid bills is a parasite, regardless of color. Being heavily leveraged but still meeting obligations may mean that one is an overspending fool, but a parasite they're not.

[Zacha341]

Yes, I'd find that the ultimate transfer of wealth. Surely there are Detroiters who work for DWSD. Water is free ala a bucket to the river or rain water, but necessary treatment and delivery is not.

Or perhaps they'll just get angry, protest, and demand free stuff. Are the protesters suggesting that DWSD workers should not receive paychecks because water should be free? I think most people would quit their jobs if they were not paid to perform them.

[Zacha341]

"cell phone huts"... Hah, the T-Mobiles, Sprints and what not will cut you of fast. ATT will too eventually. None of the six-month build ups there.

Maybe I'll stop paying my bill and put my hand out instead. And then my neighbor will observe this stroke of genius and she will do the same. Followed by her neighbor, and the two families across the street. Soon the entire block will be in on the game. And it will spread like wildfire.

Great slippery slope we've created here. Meanwhile cell phone huts, beauty shops and liquor stores don't have to worry about chasing their customers down or threatening to cut them off.

[Zacha341]

Right... you can have that $150+ a month Premium if you want to but COMCAST/ Xfinities is going to GET THEIR MONEY. The minute you go awol on paying your looking a big black screen. I've long dispensed with cable which is never going down in price. Get a streaming device and dititally stream what you want, when you want. Far cheaper!

Don't forget cable! Gotta have that Premium Package.

[Zacha341]

Imagine that! Both are a problem. There are only so many tax payers to support waste at the corporate and individual of level of welfare.

I'm against corporate welfare and costly wars. I'm also for people paying their damn water bills.

[Cliffy]

Imagine that! Both are a problem. There are only so many tax payers to support waste at the corporate and individual of level of welfare.

Seriously corporate welfare and elitism is in every country. I don't like it but its just the reality of the way the world works. With that being said, pay your damn water bill like the rest of us. At least attempt to pay it. I've been to other countries in the world and had to endure issues of water being shut off at different parts of the day etc... At least we got clean water running 24 hours a day. Its nothing to do about poverty. Its just the 3rd world Detroit mentality where I don't have to pay for any public service because nobody bothered to enforce anything. The article last month said it all where they went to shut off the water of someone and he worked as a steel worker [[Probably making $20 an hour or more).

[Zacha341]

^^^ Eh, ummm, you're preaching to the choir on that with me. If you've read my posts, you'll see I DO NOT advocate people not paying their bills. I pay mine and have never had a water shut off. I weighed on that in defense of paying in the original 'water' thread and this thread, pointing out that "necessary treatment and delivery is not [FREE]."

Having said that, DWSD played into this as well allowing bills to carry over for months and years, only 'enforcing' it when the butchers ULTIMATE bill came due [[city bankrupt). And the bill is coming to corporate welfare bill as well and will be exacted according to interests involved -- interests who'll attempt to kick that can yet just a bit further.

[Cliffy]

Here is what I don't understand about the whole water shutoff policy. If for example you live in Oakland County, they will just add the unpaid water bill to your property taxes and if you don't pay that then you lose your house. I'm almost positive that it is illegal to shut off someone's water. Why not just have the same policy in Detroit. Add it to the property taxes. Why go through all the water shutoff drama. A house without water is pretty much useless anyway.

[corktownyuppie]

Question. For those of you adamant about the "Water is a Human Right" position, here is what I'd like to know. It is clear to me whom you think should be exempt from having to pay for water...and I am on your side in this. I think that we have both a moral obligation as well as a selfish-interest in paying for the water bills of the most poor.

But this is what I would like to know...who do you think SHOULD have to pay their bill? For example, if I just refuse to pay *my* bill, would you be ok with that?

I think the protestors could gain so much more credibility if they share their positions in both who SHOULDNT HAVE TO PAY as well as drawing the line on where one SHOULD BE REQUIRED to pay.

[old guy]

For some reason it seems to me that the City is somewhat negligent in this matter. Most municipalities require that people pay their bills in a somewhat timely matter or work out details. Who's minding the store?

[Honky Tonk]

Here is what I don't understand about the whole water shutoff policy. If for example you live in Oakland County, they will just add the unpaid water bill to your property taxes and if you don't pay that then you lose your house. I'm almost positive that it is illegal to shut off someone's water. Why not just have the same policy in Detroit. Add it to the property taxes. Why go through all the water shutoff drama. A house without water is pretty much useless anyway.

HINT: People don't pay those either.

[Zacha341]

The ambiguity is part of the defense. Whenever you have one group paying and another not the issue of 'subsidy' emerges.

Defining the payers begs the question towards those opting out - demanding a criteria. And well, that what not have done well in a united front of protest!!

I think the protestors could gain so much more credibility if they share their positions in both who SHOULDNT HAVE TO PAY as well as drawing the line on where one SHOULD BE REQUIRED to pay.

[Scottathew]

Here is what I don't understand about the whole water shutoff policy. If for example you live in Oakland County, they will just add the unpaid water bill to your property taxes and if you don't pay that then you lose your house. I'm almost positive that it is illegal to shut off someone's water. Why not just have the same policy in Detroit. Add it to the property taxes. Why go through all the water shutoff drama. A house without water is pretty much useless anyway.

Water payments are generally collected by the cities, not Oakland County. That would make me think that policies vary from city to city. For example, I pay my water bill directly to the city of Rochester Hills.

I noticed that DWSD, just like Rochester Hills, offers the ability to make payments online and over the phone. DWSD actually goes one step further than Rochester Hills and allows payments to be made via credit card, where Rochester Hills only allows ACH payments from a checking account.

I'm a big boy, so I decide to pay my water bill every month because it's a very important thing to my family. [[not mocking poor people, but mocking the scammers or lazy people that choose not to pay)

[313WX]

Here is what I don't understand about the whole water shutoff policy. If for example you live in Oakland County, they will just add the unpaid water bill to your property taxes and if you don't pay that then you lose your house. I'm almost positive that it is illegal to shut off someone's water. Why not just have the same policy in Detroit. Add it to the property taxes. Why go through all the water shutoff drama. A house without water is pretty much useless anyway.

Half of the property owners in Detroit don't pay taxes...

[rex]

They could try paying their bills like everyone else. I'm sorry, but I don't feel sorry for people who can't grasp this radical idea.

you're sorry for not feeling sorry???
so you're sorry?

[rex]

so someone with a little ambition and the right tool could really clean up?

[Wesley Mouch]

Count me in the "pay your bills or lose your shit" category, however:

DWSD badly bungled this shutoff parade.

In late spring, they essentially unilaterally declared they were going to go after these unpaid accounts, no holds barred. This was essentially ignoring the political consequences of the most impoverished, bankrupt, blighted city in the Western world having its citizens losing water. Pretty amateurish.

When as a municipality you invoke the wrath of the UN, you're doing it wrong. This initiative had all the finesse of prison rape. Introduce the fucking assistance and payment programs BEFORE you cut off peoples' water, not after, you idiots.

As I've stated before, I'm in the military. I'm gone for periods of time without internet. Having my account set on autopay, something completely standard in the civilized world, was a nightmare flurry of e-mails and phone calls. Can you imagine someone without means and less-educated having to deal with someone equally less-educated with the DWSD, both trying to figure out payment arrangements? God help us.

It was sophomoric. It's a travesty. Firstly, yes, you must pay your bill. However the infrastructure must be in place first to allow you to do so in a reasonable manner. Both efforts, which have been managed in the Western world effortlessly for decade upon decade, are beyond the ability of Detroit.

This is why we will never succeed. We will never come back. We cannot manage basic infrastructure. This city and this state do not deserve to exist.

Also strongly believe in 'pay your bill' for water -- and think this 'right to water' is about as absurd as it gets.... because rights mean freedom, not gifts -- IMO.

But nonetheless completely agree that DWSD bungled this. You can't be negligent for 30 years, then decide to go to zero-tolerance overnight. At least tell us you're gonna start with the most delinquent accounts, establish a payment plan that is reasonable, and communicate with your customers. That DWSD bungled this is the best proof in the world that privatization is a necessary solution when publicization has a massive failure.

I greatly prefer publicly-owned water -- but not willing to tolerate failure without consequences.

[motz]

It's amazing how many people in line to pay their water bill were talking on a cell phone! Oh that's right, the government will pay that bill too.

Wait a second... You want for these "lazy welfare leechers" to get jobs... but you're going to whine about them having a cell phone??? How do you get a job without a phone? How do you get a job without a computer? Do you not understand that what USED to be amenities are now REQUIREMENTS to get a job? Yeah, the library has PCs to use for residents, but how is that person going to get to the library? How will they return the phone call from a potential employer without a phone? It's painfully obvious you've been out of the work force, especially the lower-end of the workforce, for a while because phone and internet are REQUIRED for someone to get a job, and a car can be a huge deciding factor too.

Poor shaming is hilarious because most of the poor shamers don't understand how society works outside of their beautiful bubble their parents built for them.

[Honky Tonk]

Yeah, the library has PCs to use for residents, but how is that person going to get to the library?

Why don't they take the Midtown Blight Rail?

[motz]

Why don't they take the Midtown Blight Rail?

Well we can try and take the severely underfunded bus system to the local library, but lord knows if you'll get there before it closes That just sounds super fair

[Honky Tonk]

Well we can try and take the severely underfunded bus system to the local library, but lord knows if you'll get there before it closes That just sounds super fair

Naw, They should take the Blight Rail. It's the start of mass transportation in Detroit. Now the common Joe will have a way to not only find a job, but be able to get to it everyday.

[Armin]

you're sorry for not feeling sorry???
so you're sorry?

sorry about that.

[Wesley Mouch]

Wait a second... You want for these "lazy welfare leechers" to get jobs... but you're going to whine about them having a cell phone??? How do you get a job without a phone? How do you get a job without a computer? Do you not understand that what USED to be amenities are now REQUIREMENTS to get a job? Yeah, the library has PCs to use for residents, but how is that person going to get to the library? How will they return the phone call from a potential employer without a phone? It's painfully obvious you've been out of the work force, especially the lower-end of the workforce, for a while because phone and internet are REQUIRED for someone to get a job, and a car can be a huge deciding factor too.

Poor shaming is hilarious because most of the poor shamers don't understand how society works outside of their beautiful bubble their parents built for them.

So cell phone bills get paid
And water bills don't?

To get a job, you also must bathe. Since jobs are a human right, water must be a human right in addition to your human right to a cellphone.

[Wesley Mouch]

Wait a second... You want for these "lazy welfare leechers" to get jobs... but you're going to whine about them having a cell phone??? How do you get a job without a phone? How do you get a job without a computer? Do you not understand that what USED to be amenities are now REQUIREMENTS to get a job? Yeah, the library has PCs to use for residents, but how is that person going to get to the library? How will they return the phone call from a potential employer without a phone? It's painfully obvious you've been out of the work force, especially the lower-end of the workforce, for a while because phone and internet are REQUIRED for someone to get a job, and a car can be a huge deciding factor too.

Poor shaming is hilarious because most of the poor shamers don't understand how society works outside of their beautiful bubble their parents built for them.

After re-reading this post, I am compelled to write that the only thing worst than shaming poor shamers is:

...thinking you know better than 'poor shamers'.

You are entitled to your opinion. Don't marginalize someone else's opinion of how to make the world better because it isn't your 'pity the poor' mentality. There are other ideas.

What I find valuable about this forum is the challenges to my ideas of the world. I don't agree with your apparent belief that some people are 'poor shamers'. But I'm glad to hear what you have to say -- most of the time.