Whole Foods in Detroit after one year.

[Richard]

That looks like the final piece of the puzzle for them and drone delivery,they will have both the retail and grocery locked down.

It will be like the old days,you will not even need a refrigerator anymore,a couple of clicks and 10 minutes later a fresh meal is delivered.

[Zacha341]

I'm sure the US Postal Service is happy. Where it not for the growing online retailers, eBayer's and Amazon they'd be in worse shape fiscally speaking!

Big move for Amazon - buying a grocery chain.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/16/amazo...7-billion.html

[Zacha341]

Yes, I am still in search of a good multigrain, not loaded with calories. WF'd over the last couple of years seems to have dropped some of their baked goods. Some were nasty anyway and very overpriced!

My wife found a multigrain at COSTCO that was super good and made great sandwiches. After about three months, i was reading the label on the wrapping and found out how many calories were in each slice. Yikes!

[clubboss]

Yes, I am still in search of a good multigrain, not loaded with calories. WF'd over the last couple of years seems to have dropped some of their baked goods. Some were nasty anyway and very overpriced!

I do love the Avalon roll selection, they were .50 each, now I believe they're .69 each. The whisper is overall prices may come down a tad bit. And don't forget that killer breakfast buffet.
But other than that, I rarely purchase any other items.
I've settled on Brownberry's Whole Wheat; they are the wide pan variety of bread [[kinda big for me), and Kroger usually has it on sale for $3.50
Whole grain and NO High Fructose Corn Syrup

[Zacha341]

So now it's been a few years since the grand opening. Do you think the Detroit WF is doing well? Better, or worse? Online reviews range wildly.

I'll be trying out the 'Amazon Locker' pickup for an item I purchased via Amazon. Cool option as the item is valuable and I don't want to take a chance with it left on my porch this time. They've had it for a couple of months now. I wonder how much space that's taking up on the second floor. I will soon know.

I am finding the store a bit dirtier as time goes by. Especially the front check out areas. Also, calling ahead to check on availability of an item was slow. I shop there for a few things [[their produce when on sale and a brand of probiotic I like) but not much else.

Still a bit too pricey for me overall.

[SammyS]

Shopped there once for bug spray, told to use vinegar and honey instead

[Zacha341]

They don't really sell things like that, or cleaning products, like ajax or paper plates. Heck, they can barely fit all the stuff they have in their now.

[stasu1213]

I had shopped there a few times. I still say that it's the best grocery store inside Cory limits; the next are the two Meijer. Report any debris found at the entrance to management. I would like to see a second Whole Food on Jefferson. I will be exceedingly excited if I hear news of Kroger opening a store in Detroit. The element is a little better than it was when they closed in 2002

[Zacha341]

Yes, I am talking to management as I see problems, issues.

I tried out that Amazon mail pickup option. It was great! Located on the second floor of WF. You put in your access code onto a screen and your bin opens up and you take your package.

USPS can't be happy that Ammy has partnered up with WF's to offer this option for subscribers of Amazon Prime.

[stasu1213]

I am glad that you are. Many people will see things wrong with stores but don't say anything to the management of that store. I will still shop at Whole Foods or Kroger for my dairy and food products. The board of health tried sabotaging the store for Hepatitis but were the Spartans products that are all over the city employees checked for Hepatitis being that many of these stores serve hot meals as well? Have you noticed after the announcement of a Meijer type store opening on Jefferson you don't see any construction preparation or anything. Is Sheffield or any other elected officials for that area are being influenced by the owners of the grocery stores in that district to stall the project knowing that it would take away business away from there stores?

[O3H]

I think the downtown store is operating at a LOSS

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...-store-conquer

[313WX]

I am glad that you are. Many people will see things wrong with stores but don't say anything to the management of that store. I will still shop at Whole Foods or Kroger for my dairy and food products. The board of health tried sabotaging the store for Hepatitis but were the Spartans products that are all over the city employees checked for Hepatitis being that many of these stores serve hot meals as well? Have you noticed after the announcement of a Meijer type store opening on Jefferson you don't see any construction preparation or anything. Is Sheffield or any other elected officials for that area are being influenced by the owners of the grocery stores in that district to stall the project knowing that it would take away business away from there stores?

Wasn't the Jefferson grocery store announced just a couple of months ago? Bear in mind new developments can take years to get off the ground, depending on a number of factors [[permit / zoning approvals, funding, engineering / environmental studies, etc.).

These things don't happen overnight. It took a good 1+ years for construction of the new Meijer in Warren to start.

And it's not even a traditional Meijer that's opening on Jefferson either, but more like a smaller / off-brand stores.

[313WX]

I think the downtown store is operating at a LOSS

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...-store-conquer

When you take away the incentives, probably so.

On paper, with only 35K people and per-capita income of $20K, downtown/midtown Detroit doesn't have the population density nor concentration of wealth to support a Whole Foods.

Typically, upscale retailers like Whole Foods, Costco and Trader Joe's like to see per-capita incomes of at least $30K and population numbers well into the six-figures to ensure the store they open is profitable.

Besides the incentives, the only other reason it's been around this long is because they virtually have a monopoly when it comes to fresh grocery shopping. If Kroger ever decides to return, that'll mean more competition in an already small / lower income market.

[Zacha341]

I'm glad HF is in the D but I just don't factor them into my main shopping. I purchase a few organic veggies there, but otherwise get produce at local merchants like those in Hamtramck/ East Dearborn as I can't afford a full organic lifestyle, especially in the winter. Food purchasing at large at HF still feels a bit 'boutique' for me/ my budget.

However, I shop there a couple of times a month sometimes. Rarely over a bag of items. I do like their probiotic section in the cold bins, over what I was using. And a few things of their buffet and deli. The '365' line of spring water is a bargain. As are their specialty tuna selections.

I'll be popping in there more now that they have shipping/ pick up via Amazon. That's too-cool-for-school. Love it!

[O3H]

Not everyone is happy - Independent Grocers Alliance
would have liked a tax break and incentives in Detroit

WE are funding the Detroit store, and continue to do so, for a long while.

If I wanted to donate to a charity giving people good food
there are plenty I could choose from.
I had zero choice in the WF startup.

[Honky Tonk]

And it's not even a traditional Meijer that's opening on Jefferson either, but more like a smaller / off-brand stores.

With apartments on top of it.

[MikeM]

WE are funding the Detroit store, and continue to do so, for a long while.

How much did you think that has cost you, so far?

[3WC]

I agree that the tax break given to WF is an abomination. It's corporate welfare at its worst.

That goes for all the other give-aways those idiots running the city come up with.

Those give-aways are another way of saying: "We know we're a shithole city and don't blame you if you're smart enough to con us into believing you're crummy business wouldn't succeed in Detroit unless we bribe you to locate here for a little while at least."

[erikd]

When you take away the incentives, probably so.

On paper, with only 35K people and per-capita income of $20K, downtown/midtown Detroit doesn't have the population density nor concentration of wealth to support a Whole Foods.

Typically, upscale retailers like Whole Foods, Costco and Trader Joe's like to see per-capita incomes of at least $30K and population numbers well into the six-figures to ensure the store they open is profitable.

Besides the incentives, the only other reason it's been around this long is because they virtually have a monopoly when it comes to fresh grocery shopping. If Kroger ever decides to return, that'll mean more competition in an already small / lower income market.

This per-capita income number of $20K for downtown/midtown has got to be off or seriously skewed somehow.

The 2017 per-capita income for the city of Detroit as a whole was $28,099. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...nce/105588010/

Downtown Detroit [[48226) was the 16th highest average income zip code in the state of Michigan in 2014, with an average income of $142,193.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/.../post_107.html

A report released last week on rents in the downtown/midtown area shows the average rent in Grand Circus Park at $2.12/sqft, CBD at $1.80/sqft, Midtown at $2.17/sqft, and the greater downtown as a whole at $1.78/sqft.
https://detroit.curbed.com/2018/2/20...e-rent-detroit

There is no way that the average downtown/midtown income is dramatically lower than the city average, while simultaneously featuring one of the highest-income zip codes in the state, and supporting very high average rents. It just doesn't add up.

[archfan]

This per-capita income number of $20K for downtown/midtown has got to be off or seriously skewed somehow.
...
There is no way that the average downtown/midtown income is dramatically lower than the city average, while simultaneously featuring one of the highest-income zip codes in the state, and supporting very high average rents. It just doesn't add up.

For the 48201 zip code n 2010, media income was $13K - others put it at ~$16K. Median income for 48202 is ~18K. Students bring that down, plus the two zip codes extend beyond the Woodward corridor into areas that haven't boomed.

[SammyS]

Maybe it’s a question of Median vs Average.

Median is just the middle income data point of the entire sample group. It does not take into account any skew.
Average or Mean is the total income divided by population.

[313WX]

This per-capita income number of $20K for downtown/midtown has got to be off or seriously skewed somehow.

See the below report from 2015.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mlive...r_downtown.amp

BTW, I'd be careful using average income to get an idea of how poor or wealthy an area is. Retailers most certainly don't when considering where to open new storea.

[313WX]

BTW, rent per sq. ft. is determined by a combination of supply and demand as well as the cost to build / operate, not just the income in the surrounding area.

Detroit gets away with those type of prices for rent because the product is in relatively high demand / limited suplly, plus because all of the tax incentives that are offered to developers make it far less expensive than it normally would be to supply the desired housing.

[masterblaster]

When you take away the incentives, probably so.

On paper, with only 35K people and per-capita income of $20K, downtown/midtown Detroit doesn't have the population density nor concentration of wealth to support a Whole Foods.

Typically, upscale retailers like Whole Foods, Costco and Trader Joe's like to see per-capita incomes of at least $30K and population numbers well into the six-figures to ensure the store they open is profitable.

Besides the incentives, the only other reason it's been around this long is because they virtually have a monopoly when it comes to fresh grocery shopping. If Kroger ever decides to return, that'll mean more competition in an already small / lower income market.

If Detroit's population density is still around 5,000/people per sq mi, then it's population density exceeds the vast majority of suburbs and even certain cities like Austin. Ferndale has 5,000 people density.

Whenever I go to the Whole Foods, there are always a lot of people in there. Last week, I went there at 9:45 pm and the parking lot was packed...and it is always packed! IMHO, with the current growing affluent population, and including Wayne State students & DMC employees [[who don't get counted in the Detroit population numbers), there is sufficient demand for that Whole Foods.

[313WX]

If Detroit's population density is still around 5,000/people per sq mi, then it's population density exceeds the vast majority of suburbs and even certain cities like Austin. Ferndale has 5,000 people density.

Whenever I go to the Whole Foods, there are always a lot of people in there. Last week, I went there at 9:45 pm and the parking lot was packed...and it is always packed! IMHO, with the current growing affluent population, and including Wayne State students & DMC employees [[who don't get counted in the Detroit population numbers), there is sufficient demand for that Whole Foods.

A couple points in response:

1. Just because a store has a lot of people in it doesn't mean it's profitable. The question is, how much of the product are those people buying, or are they just "window shopping." The other question is how much of the product is growing legs and walling out of the door on its own every day [[shrinkage).

2. I said downtown/midtown Detroit *on paper.* I doubt Whole Foods [[being a specialty grocer) is pulling a ton of traffic beyond the few sq. mi. radius where it's located.

You may be right about the population unaccounted for, but without hard data to back it up, I'm not convinced. Getting back to the original point, I do wonder how well that store would be doing without the generous incentives that were offered. The fact that they haven't bothered to open more locations [[such as in Sherwood Forest, a more affluent location in the city), expand that store and even the fact that upkeep of that location is fallimg by the wayside according to one poster leaves me skeptical.