Michadichu: Most pumping houses in state not in good condition.

[313WX]

Reading this thread, I was struck by how everyone here accepts MDOTs assessment. They sure don't accept MDOTs assessment of I-94 expansion.

So are they incompetent and wrong about I-94 ... and competent and right about pumping station repair needs?

Fixed that for you.

And why can't it be both?

[Cliffy]

I bet these pumps were maintained by a union crew that never missed a paid break. Odds are taxpayers were charged several time over to pay new pumps, but the money never got past all the corruption.

They have more than enough money but choose to waste it. They are in your face with their waste. New lights at 16 and Mound? Why the old ones were not stopping traffic? Right.

More waste examples, how about signs saying "Big Beaver Road Next Intersection"? Why have a sign twice as wide as the old ones? Simple, they have the money to waste.

Next time you hear someone say they need more money for roads or road pumps, just look at all the signs that say "Next Intersection", and ask your self, "if they are wasting money, do they really need more?"

Yup and there you go. Welcome to 1855. Person has no understanding about anything but decides to prove to the world how stupid he is by posting absolute nonsense. Why even post any signs or time traffic lights or even have roads. Fuck it. Horses and guns.

[Wesley Mouch]

Yup and there you go. Welcome to 1855. Person has no understanding about anything but decides to prove to the world how stupid he is by posting absolute nonsense. Why even post any signs or time traffic lights or even have roads. Fuck it. Horses and guns.

I agree with you that its not helpful to assign union failings to every problem. But that does not change that unions are failing us, as a society.

I respect the need to improve conditions of the working person -- but the way we're doing it leads to corruption, protection of weak workers, inability to change work practices, and did I say corruption -- well yes, so let me clarify that... corruption of the equitable social management of civic finances. Schools boards comprised of those hand-picked by labor and then promoted by sometime mandatory dues [[sometimes fees of same amount) so they can agree to binding labor contracts for their supporters. We can rightly criticize crony capitalism. But we also should criticize crony laborism.

So back to MDOT -- I don't see a union problem here. In fact I don't really see a problem here. MDOT's reported on the problem. They should next state a plan for addressing it. Good job, you evil road-builders.

[Cliffy]

I agree with you that its not helpful to assign union failings to every problem. But that does not change that unions are failing us, as a society.

I respect the need to improve conditions of the working person -- but the way we're doing it leads to corruption, protection of weak workers, inability to change work practices, and did I say corruption -- well yes, so let me clarify that... corruption of the equitable social management of civic finances. Schools boards comprised of those hand-picked by labor and then promoted by sometime mandatory dues [[sometimes fees of same amount) so they can agree to binding labor contracts for their supporters. We can rightly criticize crony capitalism. But we also should criticize crony laborism.

So back to MDOT -- I don't see a union problem here. In fact I don't really see a problem here. MDOT's reported on the problem. They should next state a plan for addressing it. Good job, you evil road-builders.

What does upgrading traffic signals to improve traffic with sensors and replacing signs on the freeway that have little stickers on the back that are REQUIRED to be replaced every 10 years because they lose reflectivity. I don't understand what the unions have to do with this. I mean do unions have anything to do when you have a winter coat for x amount of years and it starts to get holes in it and you have to replace it. I hate when people post stuff that is so stupid and they think they are finding waste when all they are doing is creating self waste on a thread.

[nain rouge]

It's so sad that the spin masters have gotten so many people in the US to blame unions for all of our problems, when in fact the are much bigger, more serious problems. But no, let's hack away at the people trying to earn a decent living. Genius.

Fact is, we have too much infrastructure relative to the population, and to try and maintain it properly would require extreme diligence and focus from our politicians. But, of course, we know from past experience - OUR SHOULD - that neither party is capable of that. They want to pump money into stadiums, tourism ads, and other vanity projects when we don't have it.

BUT STILL, you're going to vote Democratic or Republican and continue to complain about how screwed up the government is. Because you'll only vote for the people with shiny ads.

[Jimaz]

It's so sad that the spin masters have gotten so many people in the US to blame unions for all of our problems, when in fact the are much bigger, more serious problems. But no, let's hack away at the people trying to earn a decent living. Genius....

I suspect that dead horse is going to continue to be beaten long after the corpse has decayed.

[nain rouge]

Right, until there are NO unions left. And then what? Do people really think we'll return to the '90s economy once the unions are all out of the way - y'know, back when we had even more evil unions?

[Wesley Mouch]

Right, until there are NO unions left. And then what? Do people really think we'll return to the '90s economy once the unions are all out of the way - y'know, back when we had even more evil unions?

Beating dead horse....

Unions are neither the biggest problem, nor are they free from blame for some of our problems.

There are those who do wish a death of to all unions, but its unfair to assume that anyone who criticizes unions is out to destroy them. Is unionization untouchable? Can't it be discussed without claims of 'union bashing' and a desire to destroy them?

There's a large middle on this issue. That's where I am, IMO. I have no problem with unions in private workplaces, put there by secret ballot. [[Card check is so much more anti-democratic than anything happening in Michgan EM laws.)

But I don't believe in public sector unions.

Die, horse, die.

[nain rouge]

You don't want a union in the public sector because, like any boss, you don't want to pay a good wage if you think you can get away with it. You want people to clean your streets, police your community, put fires out, and etc., but you could care less if they have decent health care. Because we all know what happens when you don't have unions. Benefits are gradually eroded until all but gone.

And why do you want those unions gone? Out of spite from the market pressures threatening to force your own wages down. But to me, that's a very backwards approach. People think they can preserve what they "deserve" if they can push enough of the other people off the boat.

[nain rouge]

Part of the anti-union rhetoric relies on this concept that competition in the economy is stiff, and we all have to tighten our belts. But ask yourself why everyone at the top has managed to exponentially increase their wages every decade, as ours remain stagnant? Ask why during the recession trillions were pumped into Wall Street, and it's now at a record highs, all while housing values were allowed to crater?

The truth is, the average person is deluded with artificial scarcities, which is imposed on us so that the CEOs and big stockholders can maintain exponential increases. The modern economy is extraordinarily complicated, but your common American still looks at it like its the early 1900s, judging what's going on with horribly outdated models.

[Cliffy]

I don't get what replacing a sign or upgrading traffic signals has to do with union. You guys are falling for that chump's redirection. He is completely clueless on traffic engineering and posts some shit about replacing signs and drops in "union". Don't even get drawn into the union debate. He is just a clown throwing out false information and trying to twist stuff around. Doesn't realize what AASHTO manual is.

[jerrytimes]

It's funny reading the posts in here that are attacking only the current politicians and governor. Piss poor Michigan roads are a new thing....... right.....

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Part of the anti-union rhetoric relies on this concept that competition in the economy is stiff, and we all have to tighten our belts. But ask yourself why everyone at the top has managed to exponentially increase their wages every decade, as ours remain stagnant? Ask why during the recession trillions were pumped into Wall Street, and it's now at a record highs, all while housing values were allowed to crater?

The truth is, the average person is deluded with artificial scarcities, which is imposed on us so that the CEOs and big stockholders can maintain exponential increases. The modern economy is extraordinarily complicated, but your common American still looks at it like its the early 1900s, judging what's going on with horribly outdated models.

Amen Brother !! The rich are getting richer, at the expense of the common folks. Most working people haven't had a wage increase in 20 years, while the "fat cats" [[CEO's) watch their salaries and stock options multiply in spades. Why do you think crime is high and will continue to run rampant? Inequality and hopelessness, and don't tell me to go to school, graduate and work hard and you will succeed. That's a crock of _hit for those that don't have a chance to begin with.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

It's funny reading the posts in here that are attacking only the current politicians and governor. Piss poor Michigan roads are a new thing....... right.....

That's just it, nobody in the past 20 years has done anything about it. Too busy serving their own special interests. Just keep kicking the can down the road. Democrats and Republicans.

[313WX]

It's funny reading the posts in here that are attacking only the current politicians and governor. Piss poor Michigan roads are a new thing....... right.....

But the difference is the current politicians and governor have been the first ones to use the unions as a scapegoat for our crumbling infrastructure, and also cut the little funding we have to keep up with the repairs/maintenance even further...

[Cliffy]

That's just it, nobody in the past 20 years has done anything about it. Too busy serving their own special interests. Just keep kicking the can down the road. Democrats and Republicans.

Actually Engler raised the gas tax in the late 90's

[Gistok]

Uh Oh.... do I see a deluge outside right now??

Quick close the gates... batten down the hatches...

[Mark Smiles]

Yup and there you go. Welcome to 1855. Person has no understanding about anything but decides to prove to the world how stupid he is by posting absolute nonsense. Why even post any signs or time traffic lights or even have roads. Fuck it. Horses and guns.

You are a delusional fool, if you can not see MDOT wasting money at the same time they claim not to have enough.

Before you start calling me stupid, think about what you saying, on second thought forget it, as that would require a tiny amount of intelligence.

I stand by my comments, when you look at all the signs being replaced with bigger ones, and all the functional lights [[poles, cables etc.) being replaced, even though they still have a useful life left in them, you still have a very sizable chunk of change.

You may think it is nonsense to complain about wasteful spending by an organization that claims to not have enough funding, but you are wrong.

[Wesley Mouch]

But the difference is the current politicians and governor have been the first ones to use the unions as a scapegoat for our crumbling infrastructure, and also cut the little funding we have to keep up with the repairs/maintenance even further...

And you by your statement are an apologist for bad labor practices, perhaps. Not every attempt to address problems with organized labor is an 'attack on labor'. And sometimes it might be right.

Judge things on their relevance, not your political opinions about labor, please.

[poobert]

Why the FUCK does everything flood every time we get a summer shower? Does NOTHING work around here anymore?

[7miledog]

It's funny reading the posts in here that are attacking only the current politicians and governor. Piss poor Michigan roads are a new thing....... right.....

You're absolutely right. Mike Bishop and the rest of the anti-tax, do-nothing, worth-nothing rethuglicans who have controlled the legislature for the majority of the past 40 years are completely to blame.

[7miledog]

Mark Smiles says: "You are a delusional fool, if you can not see MDOT wasting money at the same time they claim not to have enough."

Actually, it's the legislature wasting the money when it appropriates funds by line item to be used for that purpose only. If you don't like the next intersection signs, call your legislator. Oh but wait, they're rethuglicans, so it must be MDOT's fault.

[RO_Resident]

You are a delusional fool, if you can not see MDOT wasting money at the same time they claim not to have enough.

Before you start calling me stupid, think about what you saying, on second thought forget it, as that would require a tiny amount of intelligence.

I stand by my comments, when you look at all the signs being replaced with bigger ones, and all the functional lights [[poles, cables etc.) being replaced, even though they still have a useful life left in them, you still have a very sizable chunk of change.

You may think it is nonsense to complain about wasteful spending by an organization that claims to not have enough funding, but you are wrong.

A few things--

As mentioned above, signs have a finite life span: the reflective sheeting wears out, they get knocked over.

The national standards [[aka the MUTCD) for sign retroreflectivity recently updated. There are several ways that communities can check the reflectivity of their signs, such as using a light meter; using trained spotters; blanket replacement after x number of years; etc.

Finally, signs are meant to be seen. Seems obvious. With an aging population, there is an effort to make signs easier to see and interpret. MDOT is moving to Clearview font on freeway signs. Signs are required to be mixed case for easier reading. And, there is an effort to make guideway signs [[just like the 'Big Beaver Next Right') larger and easier to read.

That's not to say there is no waste or that the MUTCD is perfect. Woodward in Royal Oak was resigned a year ago. The duplicate signs were up for a good 4 months.

[Willi]

Some might say it's poor practice to Piss where you Drink from;
others claim its bad practice to shit where you eat ....
one way or another we'll pollute ourselves out of existence.