Detroit Area Flooding - 08/11/2014

[RO_Resident]

OK... but I was speaking generally about total tax collections... not just the highways.... .... although I didn't make that clear...

Gotcha.

Tuesday felt like the warmest snow day ever. Half the office called in. The people who made it in talked of their tales of woe making it in. Short commutes turned into multi-hour affairs.

Even today, people were still debriefing and trying to figure out the best way home.

[Zacha341]

I work in east Dearborn and the west end got hit pretty bad considering that grade up and down thru Michigan avenue past Evergreen on up thru Telegraph. I was told of basements of home and business flooded where they never did before. A zillion trucks were driving along Michigan where they normally would have been on I-94. Ford Rd. was the only option to get thru the city back to Detroit. Good times.

My office in Dearborn is about 50% attendance today.

[Dbest]

Time to dig out some paintings I created in the eighties when expressway flooding was more frequent.

Lowell, This is so awesome! I love the sky and clouds...

[canuck]

Yes Lowell, great job! Love the colors and emotion there.

[Scottathew]

Yes Lowell, great job! Love the colors and emotion there.

I agree.

I am amazed by people with artistic abilities. It's not something I poses or understand, but I certainly appreciate!

[internet_pseudopod]

Just a friendly reminder after all this flooding...don't buy anything used for a while.

I was quite surprised to see someone picked up a stroller and baby carrier that I put out last night. I thought to myself that no one could be that sick/desperate as to put their child in that. I tried convince myself that no one could be unethical enough to sell something like that. I assured myself that they wanted it for scrap metal. I mean...screws are scrap metal, right?

Later in the day someone picked up a wicker basket that just hours before was submerged in feces filled flood water. It was at that point that I knew. Some people are willing to risk giving their family e.coli to get a free wicker basket that can be purchased new for about $25 at Meijer.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Yes, it was a very interesting weather event and reminded me of what it was like when I endured several tropical storms/depressions when I was in the Carolinas and Virginia. Very similar to when hurricane reminants from storms that hit the Gulf Coast and were swept northeasterly across SE Michigan. Those usually dropped 1-2+ inches of rain, but over a good 12-24 hour period. Not 4-6" in 8 hours.

There is a lot of misconceptions about "pumping" as the root cause for all of the flooding. Pumps are what keeps the freeway underpasses clear of water. Pumps [[for the most part) do not operate our santiary and storm sewer system in Metro Detroit. Metro Detroit's sewer system is almost entirely a gravity-fed system. Due to topography, everything slopes downward toward Lake St. Clair and the Detroit River. All of the local collectors feed into larger interceptors, which flow to the wastewater treatment plant. Storm sewers/drains, were seperated often discharge into streams.

Yes, some of the freeway system pumps did fail - due to mechanical issues, possibly scrapping. Scrapping isn't the root cause of all the flooding like some would like you to believe. In fact, in many cases the pumps were working, but there was so much water there was nowhere to pump it to. The sewer system was so overwhelmed, water could not drain and just flowed downhill to low points.

If you draw a diagonal line across Metro Detroit from roughly Plymouth, I-696/M-10, Birmingham, through Troy, Utica, and then straight north to Romeo; that roughly matches a long-ago shoreline. Everything to the west and north of this line at one time was affected by glaciers. To the east and south, this long ago was underwater and part of lake bed. The areas under the glacier are higher ground, hills/valleys, and generally have better drainage due to more slope along the waterways. The areas to the east and south are relatively flat, used to have a lot of wetlands/swamps, and have much poorer drainage due to less slope.
An example is the Clinton River which drops about 200 feet in elevation between Pontiac and Utica. Then from Utica to Lake St. Clair drops less than 10-20 feet.

The cost to design a sewer and drainage system would be so astronomical and have so much excess capacity under normal conditions it would just be impossible to do. Do areas need improvement? Yes. Particularly the inner ring sewer systems which are only designed for 10 year type of event. Newer suburbs and systems are more like 50 year event.

I've also heard a bunch of calls for the National Guard, federal assistance, etc. Not really sure what good the National Guard would've done since the immediate danger was during the height of the storm which came on suddenly. Even then, they can't really help drain water any faster than mother nature will allow. A day or two later what would they do? They aren't going to go around and help clean out people's basements. It would be different if the water supply was compromised and there was a need to distribute water, or if people's homes were completely destroyed and they were without shelter.

What is needed is better cooperation from various state/federal groups to help provide emergency funding to repair the damaged infrastructure, clean-up the debris/trash, and to help people file claims and/or navigate the bureaucratic process with the insurance companies.

We can't even agree on funding to repair roads, which is something we all can SEE with our eyes how bad there are. Let alone try to tell people to pay for sewers and drains which literally haul away crap underground, which to most people are out of sight/out of mind.

You seem very informed of these situations. Are you a Civil Engineer?

[Hermod]

You seem very informed of these situations. Are you a Civil Engineer?

Sounds more like a geologist.

[Zacha341]

Yeah I'd not want any of that stuff. Even bleach does not remove all the bacteria soaked in etc. And I wonder what graveyard all those cars are going to. Engines, exhausts and interiors and electronic water logged... the good news on that is that they will not be running unless engine replaced but the electronic would never be 100%. Most will have to receive a salvage title. Never buy a car with a salvage title.

Just a friendly reminder after all this flooding...don't buy anything used for a while.

[Danny]

Face it folks, all of SE [['Mich-ississippi') Michigan is mostly flight land with lower flooded plains. It used to be swampy all over when development came and basements dug, people thought this land is comfortable and useful. But its not when we get mounds of snowfall and monsoon-like downpours. That's when the flooding begin. Your basements [[ if you have one) will be flooded, creaks and streams will be turning into raging rivers lakes, ponds will be flowing into to doorsteps, streets will turn into canals. Too much water will filling up sewers. It's flood control pumps will be working forcing water and raw sewage will backing up to your homes. There's nothing else you can do but evacuate and recover your lives until the waters recede.

Here's a solution to flood control. Build a big flood control draining system like the one in Las Vegas, NE. and have to flow it the Detroit River. But that would take time, money, bureaucracy and politics.

Oh well! might as well deal the long winter foot of snow while we live in the Great State of 'Mich-ississippi.'

[Lowell]

Just heard that Hines Drive is still flooded. Shocking!

Meanwhile, some interesting video from YouTube...



Exaggerated title but this demonstrates how people get their cars trapped by trying to cheat nature.

[Hermod]

1. Detroit area freeways have always flooded near their underpasses. I can remember Detroit news photos back in the 1950s of flooded underpasses entitled "Noah's Arkways".

2. The Southfield was the worst freeway design of all of the 1960s freeways. The Wayne County engineers decided that Detroit shouldn't have all the fun and designed their own freeway to be built on the cheap.

[Danny]

Those who living in the fancy big foot ranches and super colonials in Macomb TWP. and other ex-urban homes; those properties must have built in sump pumps. So their basements are ok. Lucky for them for they knew their area was once flooded plain.

Developers were ready for this kind of weather.

[Hermod]

Those who living in the fancy big foot ranches and super colonials in Macomb TWP. and other ex-urban homes; those properties must have built in sump pumps. So their basements are ok. Lucky for them for they knew their area was once flooded plain.

Sump pumps only work when there is someplace for the water to go.

[Danny]

Sump pumps only work when there is someplace for the water to go.

As long as your area has a reservoir or some drainage area. In most newer suburban areas, neighborhoods have either reservoirs and drainage canals to carry water out to rivers and lakes. Macomb TWP. and other ex-urban areas have those flood control techniques.

[poobert]

Although a couple of people did lose their lives I'm not so sure this qualifies as a natural disaster .

"The flooding that continues to impact Michigan is a disaster in every sense of the word"

But whatever.

[animatedmartian]

Reports say that the city of Warren suffered at least $1 billion dollars in property damage.

[Pam]

Exaggerated title but this demonstrates how people get their cars trapped by trying to cheat nature

Remember folks, "Turn Around, Don't Drown". A little saying I learned from the Weather Channel.

[That Great Guy]

If the Michigan Department of Transportation did not slash the SMART and DDOT operating budgets, over 40,000 cars would have been off the roads, given the assumption Mr. John Hertel knows what he is doing. Thus, far fewer cars would be ruined.

I still challenge him to public debate despite getting $27 Million more per year. I want to help him fill up his buses.

[Danny]

Reports say that the city of Warren suffered at least $1 billion dollars in property damage.

Warren suffered more than New Orleans. That's when lots of people were trapped at Old 13 Mile Rd and Van Dyke Rd. Folks were trapped under three feet and rushing water inside Buddy's Pizza. One women driver with a sever case of the Grand Mal Seisure died instanly.

[Zacha341]

More images from the flooding. The ramifications of this will be felt for some time.

[courtney]

Warren suffered more than New Orleans. That's when lots of people were trapped at Old 13 Mile Rd and Van Dyke Rd. Folks were trapped under three feet and rushing water inside Buddy's Pizza. One women driver with a sever case of the Grand Mal Seisure died instanly.

Aside from the fact that the woman didn't die, http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-died-flooding , there is no way Warren could be seen as being in worse shape than New Orleans was. Damage or death wise.

[Zacha341]

Yes, of course Warren was not as bad as NO, where you have water over roofs the day of and for days after with a greater death toll and a larger area of destruction. Danny was on one of his rolls...... For sure the amount of water Warren sustained is going to make those already aging home worse for wear. Some where built fast and not to last and getting on 40-50 years old. Bad times!

[hybridy]

many buildings at the GM Tech Center are still closed. many buildings are connected via underground tunnels/basements all of which flooded. some employees are being told they may not return midweek at the earliest.

[Danny]

More storms on the way means more flooding on August 19th 2014.