Testimony: McBride pounded on homeowner's door before being fatally shot

**Zacha341** · August-01-14, 06:04 AM

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/26...g-fatally-shot

From article:

DETROIT [[AP) -- A former medical examiner sparred with a prosecutor Thursday over a wound on the hand of a woman who was fatally shot on a Detroit-area porch, telling jurors it seems to fit the defense's claim that Renisha McBride was pounding on the homeowner's doors before she was killed.

Dr. Werner Spitz, a forensic pathologist, said photos of McBride's body show a "small superficial laceration" on her left hand. It "could have come from pounding on something," Spitz said.

The testimony was intended to reinforce Theodore Wafer's explanation that McBride, 19, was pounding furiously on his doors before he shot her last Nov. 2. Wafer insists he acted in self-defense, but prosecutors say he could have kept the front door closed and called police.

**jackie5275** · August-01-14, 01:42 PM

Could it also be argued that she got it from the car accident from earlier in the night?

**aoife** · August-01-14, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

Could it also be argued that she got it from the car accident from earlier in the night?

Further down in the article they say that the blood was fresh, so it was not from the accident.

""... I'm told somebody at 4:30 in the morning pounded at [[Wafer's) door in various places -- on the window, on the door, on another door around the house," Spitz said. "And that same person now has a superficial laceration on the hand, a runoff of fresh blood, which means it probably just happened.""

Not that it matters. Even if a drunk stranger is pounding on your doors and windows you still should call the police, not blow them away.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-01-14, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by aoife

Further down in the article they say that the blood was fresh, so it was not from the accident.

""... I'm told somebody at 4:30 in the morning pounded at [[Wafer's) door in various places -- on the window, on the door, on another door around the house," Spitz said. "And that same person now has a superficial laceration on the hand, a runoff of fresh blood, which means it probably just happened.""

Not that it matters. Even if a drunk stranger is pounding on your doors and windows you still should call the police, not blow them away.

Exactly. Guilty as charged. If he gets off, it would be a travesty.

**Honky Tonk** · August-01-14, 04:53 PM

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but did she have a phone?

**EastsideAl** · August-01-14, 05:33 PM

None of these issues seem germane to the central question here: is a person banging on someone's door "immediately life threatening" enough to permit someone to shoot and kill that person?

**Honky Tonk** · August-01-14, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

None of these issues seem germane to the central question here: is a person banging on someone's door "immediately life threatening" enough to permit someone to shoot and kill that person?

I'm not getting enough information from the article or the emotional posts to make that determination. If you're talking about "banging on someone's door", like the JWs on a Saturday morning , then of course not. If you're talking about "banging on someone's door", @ 2:30 a.m., with maybe some glass breaking, like" one more minute, and I'm coming in", then maybe yes. And, yes, it is germane to the question, why didn't she call someone she knew for help?

**Zacha341** · August-01-14, 06:01 PM

Yep. It's best to FIRST call 911 rather the police will be coming in 3 minutes or 3 hours. Give the 911 operator your name and address, then if the person 'breaks in' and lethal force is the only option, there's a documented pre-call on record. Further, Dearborn police response is fast. They would have been there within 10 minutes if not sooner.

Originally Posted by aoife

Not that it matters. Even if a drunk stranger is pounding on your doors and windows you still should call the police, not blow them away.

**Downriviera** · August-01-14, 06:29 PM

The guy is sound asleep in the middle of the night. All the sudden he's awoken by pounding on front and side doors and windows. He's half asleep and disoriented. He has no land line and can't find his cell phone in the darkness. To him it sounds like multiple people are trying to get in and he fears for his life. If he's been watching the news here for the last few years he has seen all the home invasions where homeowners get killed. But the law says you have to wait till they are in your house. So he has to do some time but this poor guy is no murderer. Tough situation and glad I'm not on this jury.

**Zacha341** · August-01-14, 06:54 PM

Darkness can be an issue. I keep a small lamp on a timer in the main area and mobile or my land phone handy. For certain I would have NOT opened the door, pointing a shot gun which 'leads' [[even a short stock barrel as he dad) to have it snatched from me.

**Kevgoblue** · August-01-14, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

The guy is sound asleep in the middle of the night. All the sudden he's awoken by pounding on front and side doors and windows. He's half asleep and disoriented. He has no land line and can't find his cell phone in the darkness. To him it sounds like multiple people are trying to get in and he fears for his life. If he's been watching the news here for the last few years he has seen all the home invasions where homeowners get killed. But the law says you have to wait till they are in your house. So he has to do some time but this poor guy is no murderer. Tough situation and glad I'm not on this jury.

"this poor guy is no murder"

Really? I thought I remember something about an unarmed 19 year old girl laying dead on his front porch, with a gunshot wound to the face. Why would someone who was in fear for their life open the front door?
I find it amazing that there are so many people making excuses for this man. She was not multiple people. She was not a man. He did not live in Detroit. The Dearborn Heights police respond very quickly. Nothing to make a responsible gun owner feel the need to discharge his weapon.

**Downriviera** · August-01-14, 07:39 PM

Why would someone who was in fear for their life open the front door?

Makes no sense to me either. but when you're half asleep, disoriented and in fear you might tend to do things that don't make sense. This guy wasn't out looking for 19 year old girls to kill. He was home asleep. He did not know it was an unarmed 19 year old girl. He did not know it was only one person. Dearborn Heights is not Detroit but still plenty of crime there. Yes the DH Police respond quickly when you call them, but he couldn't find his cell phone in the dark so the police were not coming. No excuses just observations about the guys state of mind in this situation. Like I said, by law he did wrong and will do time. Sad incident all the way around.

**canuck** · August-01-14, 08:58 PM

Nobody mentioned that he may have been high or down due to some substance use. His judgement was impaired? Maybe, probably due to lack of sleep or fear since he is only a suburban white male, minding his own, in his house,etc...

He did kill a 19 yr old girl with his gun. He has a lot of answers to give for this CRIME. Call it fear or negligence, his gun happiness made another innocent victim pay a heavy price

**Johnnny5** · August-01-14, 09:01 PM

Obviously in hindsight knowing that this was just a highly intoxicated young woman this guy should not have fired the gun. But at that moment given the close proximity to high crime area, in the darkness of early morning hours and the woman's attempts at multiple entrances I don't see how any homeowner who lived alone would not be afraid for their safety.

He had absolutely no way of knowing what her intentions were, if she was armed, if she had others with her or if others may have already gained entry to the house. In fact he may not even have known that it was a man or a woman at the door.

By no means do I think he should have opened fire, but it's his testimony that the shot was fired accidentally. Whether that's true or not I doubt we'll ever know, but I don't see this ending with a conviction for 2nd degree murder given the circumstances.

This isn't some evil, racist man that was simply looking to shoot someone just because the color of their skin. This is just a guy sleeping in his own home when this woman made a terrible mistake that resulting in another terrible mistake.

**Johnnny5** · August-01-14, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Call it fear or negligence, his gun happiness made another innocent victim pay a heavy price

She did not deserve to die, but she's far from innocent. She was highly intoxicated, fled the scene of an accident and then attempted to gain entry into a strangers home. If not for her actions none of this would have had happened and both of these people would still have futures to look forward to.

**canuck** · August-01-14, 09:17 PM

Johnnny5/ Who says the guy was totally sober himself though on that fateful night? Why do I have to feel sorry for him because he faces an uncertain future?
And why should I feel sorry about the young woman's fate only on account of HER bad judgement.
À
This may not be another case of a racist white guy wanting to shoot a person of color, but it s a pretty bad violation nomethelesss. Guns are another significant appendage of males white or black that continue to ... You know what I meanaq

**antongast** · August-01-14, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

The guy is sound asleep in the middle of the night. All the sudden he's awoken by pounding on front and side doors and windows. He's half asleep and disoriented. He has no land line and can't find his cell phone in the darkness. To him it sounds like multiple people are trying to get in and he fears for his life. If he's been watching the news here for the last few years he has seen all the home invasions where homeowners get killed. But the law says you have to wait till they are in your house. So he has to do some time but this poor guy is no murderer. Tough situation and glad I'm not on this jury.

This post reads to me like quite a convincing argument for prohibiting people from keeping guns in their houses. If being tired and disoriented is all it takes to turn a Responsible Gun Owner into a homicidal menace, then it doesn't really sound to me like there's any meaningful distinction between Responsible Gun Owners and the other kind of gun owners who are really fucking dangerous and scary. I'm just saying.

**brizee** · August-01-14, 10:44 PM

Another negro done gone and gun murdered themselves.

At least they keep getting put on trial for their own deaths.

**EastsideAl** · August-01-14, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

Another negro done gone and gun murdered themselves.

At least they keep getting put on trial for their own deaths.

The victim-blaming around this area is amazing. As well as the seemingly bottomless excuse making for the guy who shot and killed an unarmed woman.

**EastsideAl** · August-01-14, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

And, yes, it is germane to the question, why didn't she call someone she knew for help?

Yes, but again I'm not really seeing why that question is all that germane. It seems to me the question is not so much 'why didn't you call someone before you started knocking?' as it is 'why didn't you call someone before you started shooting?'

**1953** · August-01-14, 11:43 PM

This story is a tragedy all around. My sense is we can't ever really know the truth, but we can know that Ms. McBride would be alive today if she hadn't scared the bejesus out of this man in the wee small hours of the morning. Hell, I'd have probably opened fire in this situation, too.

**corktownyuppie** · August-02-14, 12:11 AM

The defense attorney is sure making the prosecution prove their case. It is a tragedy all around. And I'm willing to believe that the defendant was scared sh**less, and that led him to open fire.

But.

While 1953 says he would have probably opened fire in this situation, the question is, "Why wouldn't you have waited til they had breached the perimeter?

My brother had a friend in one of the suburbs whose father was an FBI agent. In high school -- and this was before cellphones and texting, etc. -- my brother showed up at his friends house, and knocked on the front door. No answer. So he walked around and started knocking on the side door and then some of the windows.

My brother's friend hadn't gotten back from school yet and was running late. But it turns out his father was napping, and he awoke to the sound of pounding on some of the windows. Frightened, he also drew his weapon and was ready to shoot. But he decided not to fire until he heard the sound of broken glass and saw someone trying to enter through the window. Soon he recognized my brother's voice, and let him in the front door, and tragedy was averted.

Here's the point. It's very plausible that the defendant is a good person. It's also very plausible that this all an accident.

When I weigh the actions of the deceased against the actions of the defendant, they're both clearly irresponsible. Clearly. But the final burden falls on the one who opened the door to fire the weapon. Obviously none of this would have happened if she hadn't scared the bejeezus out of this man. But it also could have been avoided had he simply drawn his weapon and been ready to fire instead of engaging with the victim.

IMHO, Guilty Verdict.

**Zacha341** · August-02-14, 06:41 AM

^^^ Yep, guilty.

I've been curious as to what kind of shotgun Wafer used. Appears to be a modified version of a Remington: Pistol grip, below 24" short barrel.

Legal? I've not heard the any mention otherwise on the news feeds.

**Wheels** · August-02-14, 08:06 AM

What I find most curious about this case nobody seems to have any answers for.

Where was she for OVER 3 hours and why was she still wasted after that much time?

There has to be someone who saw her or was with her during that time period?

**canuck** · August-02-14, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

What I find most curious about this case nobody seems to have any answers for.

Where was she for OVER 3 hours and why was she still wasted after that much time?

There has to be someone who saw her or was with her during that time period?

Are you expecting an answer from people on this forum?

Another trial by jury for the victim. There is a victim in this case; the deceased.

I think you should rephrase your question entirely. Put all these words in the order I put them in: Why didnt he call the police?