Testimony: McBride pounded on homeowner's door before being fatally shot

[Honky Tonk]

You don't aim a shotgun, you point it.

Ever shoot any skeet?

[canuck]

So. It's open season on the drunk and high. That's all there is to it. Thank you.

I didn't say the guy was drunk. I said he may have been. If his sorry ass ever gets drunk outside of home or jail though, just let us shoot him, OK?

[7miledog]

So. It's open season on the drunk and high. That's all there is to it. Thank you.

I didn't say the guy was drunk. I said he may have been.

Again, you're making shit up. "I didn't say the guy was drunk. I said he may have been." I'm sorry, again, bullshit. That's like me asking you, "So when DID you stop beating your wife?" There is no basis in fact, or even an allegation thereof, to even raise this question other than a totally baseless assumption on your part to justify your desired outcome. While we're wondering about "facts" that we're pulling out of our asses, I wonder why he didn't just shoot her when she threatened him earlier in the day when she was casing his house? See what I mean, I can ask questions with no basis in fact that justify my position, too.

Open season on the drunk and high? No. Open season on the drunk and high trying to gain entry to my home at 4:30 am. All day long.

No one has ever countered the fact that this woman was actually trying to gain entry to this man's home. Rather, she simply had not been successful yet, therefore, she's a victim because an outcome that is very tragic, but was was very reasonably foreseeable, occurred? Being drunk and high reduces your ability to judge the outcomes of your actions. She is a victim of her own excess.

There are numerous occasions of people acting as decoys for a robbery crew, luring people by posing as a person in need to obtain access, after which the other perpetrators come out of hiding. It is a tragic story. But this guy doesn't deserve prison.

[Honky Tonk]

Being an unarmed victim of a home invasion, you can bet your ass I'll never be in that position again. FYI, they did knock. The last thing I remember thinking was "Gee, I wonder who that could be".

[ABetterDetroit]

Funny to me how so many people want to see this stupid guy guilty.... yet the same people have no interest in seeing the deal girl guilty.
What's the difference between those who see him guilty vs. her? People who don't judge people as individuals, but rather as an idea. This white guy represents stupid white racist guys to some. I've no idea if he is... and nobody else does either. But people are willing to toss 'innocent until proven guilty' out the window.

A good test is to reverse the races of the players here. If this were a white redneck pounding on the door of a young black girl in Detroit... would you call for conviction. Or would you give her the benefit of the doubt?

No problem WM I will play. I would still say if she opened the door and then opened fire killing the man on the front porch that she broke the law and deserved punishment. I would have more empathy for the woman in that hypothetical because of a lifetime of experience in dealing with women. IMO women seem to have a harder time then men regaining their composure after getting scared it takes longer. Men and women are built and wired differently.

[canuck]

Again, you're making shit up. "I didn't say the guy was drunk. I said he may have been." I'm sorry, again, bullshit. That's like me asking you, "So when DID you stop beating your wife?" There is no basis in fact, or even an allegation thereof, to even raise this question other than a totally baseless assumption on your part to justify your desired outcome. While we're wondering about "facts" that we're pulling out of our asses, I wonder why he didn't just shoot her when she threatened him earlier in the day when she was casing his house? See what I mean, I can ask questions with no basis in fact that justify my position, too.

Open season on the drunk and high? No. Open season on the drunk and high trying to gain entry to my home at 4:30 am. All day long.

No one has ever countered the fact that this woman was actually trying to gain entry to this man's home. Rather, she simply had not been successful yet, therefore, she's a victim because an outcome that is very tragic, but was was very reasonably foreseeable, occurred? Being drunk and high reduces your ability to judge the outcomes of your actions. She is a victim of her own excess.

There are numerous occasions of people acting as decoys for a robbery crew, luring people by posing as a person in need to obtain access, after which the other perpetrators come out of hiding. It is a tragic story. But this guy doesn't deserve prison.

My point is though that you are pretty quick to judge. The only testimony we have is thé survivor,s account. I am mot disputing it by the way. Just not making shit up means we have to wait for more evidence before deciding on his guilt.

[EastsideAl]

Actually, the germane question is whether someone banging on your front door, back door, and windows at 4:30 am is enough to cause you to reasonably believe that you are in danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury. I could argue either way on this, especially if the screen was, in fact, pounded in [[thereby, vastly increasing the likelihood that someone is attempting to enter your home by force). I'm sorry, if it sounds like someone is breaking in my home at 4:30 in the morning, I am going to treat them as if they are breaking in my home. None of us were there. Let the jury decide. It is a travesty all the way around, no matter the outcome of this trial.

Or you could call the cops.

Or, once you opened the door armed and found an unarmed woman, you could let her explain herself or tell her to leave rather than blasting a shotgun at her.

OR YOU COULD CALL THE COPS.

It still seems to me that all of the talk of her [[ultimately unknowable now) possible state of mind or her actions that night still have almost no bearing on the plain fact that this guy acted as judge, jury, and executioner on an unarmed woman who was banging on his door a bit too hard for his comfort.

And all this talk of home invasions is way way out of line, since there was no evidence at all that she was involved in such a thing [[other than, I presume from what I see written here, her "scary" negroness).

[Honky Tonk]

Or you could call the cops.

Or, once you opened the door armed and found an unarmed woman, you could let her explain herself or tell her to leave rather than blasting a shotgun at her.

OR YOU COULD CALL THE COPS.

It still seems to me that all of the talk of her [[ultimately unknowable now) possible state of mind or her actions that night still have almost no bearing on the plain fact that this guy acted as judge, jury, and executioner on an unarmed woman who was banging on his door a bit too hard for his comfort.

And all this talk of home invasions is way way out of line, since there was no evidence at all that she was involved in such a thing [[other than, I presume from what I see written here, her "scary" negroness).

Let's see, someone violently pounding on your door @ 4:30 a.m., in several spots around the house, it seem now, "I think I'll call the police, and make a pot of tea". Nor was she a girl scout who just happened to wander onto the guy's porch, in broad daylight, selling cookies.

[EastsideAl]

Or, how about, "I'll call the cops and wait here - armed with my shotgun - to see what happens"? [[Instead of "I'll open the door and blast her")

[Honky Tonk]

Or, how about, "I'll call the cops and wait here - armed with my shotgun - to see what happens"? [[Instead of "I'll open the door and blast her")

That's what I would've done, unless of course the intruder "insisted" on entry. But, as someone wiser then I, posted a few posts up, all of these scenarios are nothing but pure speculation on everyone's part. Had I been shit-faced drunk, and wrapped my car around a tree, too afraid of calling the cops, I would've called someone to come get me. I'd still like an answer to my question about her phone, given technology in this day and age.

[Downriviera]

Or, how about, "I'll call the cops and wait here - armed with my shotgun - to see what happens"? [[Instead of "I'll open the door and blast her")

This is the logical and prudent thing to do. And all of us Monday Morning Quarterbacks would say, "Thats what I would have done". But none of us were in this situation [[except for Honkey Tonk who was a victim of a home invasion). And remember, he did not have a land line phone and could not find his cell phone in the darkness and being half asleep. And many here have labeled this guy a redneck white trash murdering racist menace to society, just waiting for some negro to step on his porch so he could blow them the fuck away. And maybe he is, I don't know the guy. But his neighbors say he's a normal guy. Bottom line, he broke the law and will do time.

[canuck]

Let's see, someone violently pounding on your door @ 4:30 a.m., in several spots around the house, it seem now, "I think I'll call the police, and make a pot of tea". Nor was she a girl scout who just happened to wander onto the guy's porch, in broad daylight, selling cookies.

But isn't the best response the avoidance of conflict?

Isn't death by shotgun blast a little too final an outcome here. EastsideAl said it best when he characterized the guy as judge, jury and executioner. His marbles had better be in order for his court appearance because he has a lot to answer for. Call the police I say. Don't come out and blast someone with a shotgun because they are scaring you.

[Honky Tonk]

But isn't the best response the avoidance of conflict?

Isn't death by shotgun blast a little too final an outcome here. EastsideAl said it best when he characterized the guy as judge, jury and executioner. His marbles had better be in order for his court appearance because he has a lot to answer for. Call the police I say. Don't come out and blast someone with a shotgun because they are scaring you.

She wasn't standing on the sidewalk yelling "Hey Mister". She was pounding, profusely, and [[depending on who you believe) in various spots, around his house. Think about it, you sit up in the middle of the night, and hear someone pounding around the house. They're in the front, they're around the back, Are they looking for entry? You go to answer the door, and they pull the trigger. How far apart and loud was the pounding? Did he actually believe someone was on the verge of entry? Sorry to disappoint, folks, the first thing I would do is throw in the clip and chamber a round. It 's hard to defend yourself with a cell phone. You call the cops, they're there in 2 minutes. By the time you call the cops, give them your address, a description of the problem, they arrive, that's 4 minutes whoever is pounding on your door has time to get in and put a round in your face.

[Wesley Mouch]

Or you could call the cops.

Or, once you opened the door armed and found an unarmed woman, you could let her explain herself or tell her to leave rather than blasting a shotgun at her.

OR YOU COULD CALL THE COPS.

It still seems to me that all of the talk of her [[ultimately unknowable now) possible state of mind or her actions that night still have almost no bearing on the plain fact that this guy acted as judge, jury, and executioner on an unarmed woman who was banging on his door a bit too hard for his comfort.

And all this talk of home invasions is way way out of line, since there was no evidence at all that she was involved in such a thing [[other than, I presume from what I see written here, her "scary" negroness).

Isn't it a little cold and callous to call the cops when someone is in distress.

Now, looking back, its easy to know what to do. You may be perfect, but I'm not. And neither of our two star-crossed fools that night were. Mistakes were made by all involved. Nobody did the right thing.

But at 4:30am when awakened, I don't think grabbing your gun first is unreasonable. Is it perfect, knowing what we do now? No. But its reasonable.

[EastsideAl]

But none of us were in this situation [[except for Honkey Tonk who was a victim of a home invasion).

I have been in this situation. More than once, in fact [[even more than twice). And I either answered the door [[by talking loudly to the person through it first) or called the police, or both. [[I've also been the victim of a home invasion robbery, but they sure didn't knock on the door, they just threw a concrete block through one of our back windows).

What I never did was put a clip in my gun and either wait inside or blast somebody, because I've never owned a firearm in my life. And, outside of my service training, I've never fired one either, and certainly never at a live person. Even if I did own a gun though, it seems to me I'd have to be pretty damn certain I was in real imminent danger before I discharged it at another person.

[Zacha341]

Call the cops and be ready with a lethal response should you need it.

The 911 call may help you in court in terms of timing.

It is not boding well that his story is changing somewhat.

I WOULD NOT open a door to a stranger... to many 'decoys' operate in that manner. I wold call the police to help them.

[Zacha341]

I know of three home invasions. One being family members who fortunately when after an encounter [[as the alarm rang) on the stair case the robber went back out the window he kicked in. He assumed no one was home. The other the woman who showed the robber her shot gun racked and ready as he entered her bedroom and he ran out a side door.

The 'seeing' of shot gun will motivate some to make another decision and leave.

The third incident the woman got beat up and robbed, but the criminals were interrupted as the police came. You're never the same from that kind of thing… you don't feel at peace in your home.

[rex]

Seems like voluntary manslaughter to me tho. Serious lapse of judgement but he wasn't out looking for trouble, it came to him. Banging at his door and window at 4:30 am. Probably disoriented and half asleep and things happened fast. Made an extraordinarily bad call. Does that mean he should spend the rest of his life in prison? I think he is overcharged. Feel free to disagree

[Zacha341]

You mean 'involuntary' manslaughter. I think that's how is is going to play out.

[Kevgoblue]

Funny to me how so many people want to see this stupid guy guilty.... yet the same people have no interest in seeing the deal girl guilty.
What's the difference between those who see him guilty vs. her? People who don't judge people as individuals, but rather as an idea. This white guy represents stupid white racist guys to some. I've no idea if he is... and nobody else does either. But people are willing to toss 'innocent until proven guilty' out the window.

A good test is to reverse the races of the players here. If this were a white redneck pounding on the door of a young black girl in Detroit... would you call for conviction. Or would you give her the benefit of the doubt?

"have no interest in seeing the dead girl guilty". OK....she's guilty of knocking on his door in the middle of the night. Pics and a police investigation showed a screen door, with no signs of attempted forced entry, only a hole blasted out with a shotgun. She's guilty of wandering around drunk. Of course he didn't know that, so its irrelevant. Unless he talked to her long enough after he opened the door to ascertain the fact that she was drunk. If that's the case, he shot an drunk, unarmed teenage girl.

Point is he said he couldn't find his phone, but he could find his shotgun. He was deathly afraid for his life, but he opened the door.

Reverse the races? Sure. Lets pretend its a 50 yr old black man who blasted a 19 yr old white girl from Grosse Point in the face. You think the general consensus would be that she was responsible for her own death?

[rex]

shooting someone with a shotgun at point blank range seems like you are voluntarily trying to kill em to me. involuntary manslaughter seems accidental but you killed someone nevertheless. Like a car accident where you are clearly at fault

[rex]

" Reverse the races? Sure. Lets pretend its a 50 yr old black man who blasted a 19 yr old white girl from Grosse Point in the face. You think the general consensus would be that she was responsible for her own death? "

I dont see why not.

[SWMAP]

OR YOU COULD CALL THE COPS.
I have some perspective, as my home was invaded about 3 AM one morning a decade ago. I live alone and had an elderly dog at the time. Someone was pounding and it took a few moments for me to sort out that it was my back door that was being pounded on. There was a security mesh in the small glass window and a key in the lock [[ for safe exit in case of fire). The guy was likely drunk or high as he didn't care how much noise he made as he pounded his way through the security glass. He got through and reached in and unlocked and opened the door. I was running around for phone and car keys [[getaway from the front door) and a way to save my blind dog.
I ran barefoot to my car and locked it. But I did not think of 911- it never entered my mind. Instead I called a friend whose husband was a police officer. THEY called 911. I was trembling and voiceless. So, I know that terror-true terror- can cause inexplicable behavior.Like most women, I fear rape, probably more than anything.

Maybe Theodore Wafer didn't suffer that lifelong fear, but who is to say what fear he did feel to find what appeared to be multiple assailants trying to beat their way into his house in the dead of night.

[iheartthed]

This thread has all of the nonsense that I expected.

[iheartthed]

Actually, the germane question is whether someone banging on your front door, back door, and windows at 4:30 am is enough to cause you to reasonably believe that you are in danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury.

If that's the question then he's fucked.