Preparatory Work for M-1 Rail Begins

[dtowncitylover]

People seem to forget or don't know that this will be near an amtrak station that connects to Ann Arbor. You should be able to get from AA to Hart Plaza without even getting in a car.

In theory. I wouldn't want to schedule a day around 3 trains that are perpetually late.

[dmike76]

It's the timing of the trains that's 'in theory', I agree. My main point is that the M1 isn't really the train to nowhere that opponents think it is so a comparison to the DPM is invalid.

[professorscott]

In theory. I wouldn't want to schedule a day around 3 trains that are perpetually late.

You may not, but many do. Those trains are often full. That's why you can't buy a ticket from Detroit to Dearborn or vice-versa; Amtrak would rather sell those seats to people paying for longer trips.

By the way, the lack of an Amtrak connection directly to downtown is one of the reasons we started thinking about doing what is now called M1 Rail in the first place.

[iheartthed]

Why not? See my post above. Warsaw, a bustling city of 1.7 million, uses fare prepayment on its tram and bus network, where the trams stop every 4 blocks or so. They don't have pens at the stops. You simply insert your bar-coded ticket into a small scanning machine [[conveniently located near the doors) once you board. The Jerusalem Light Rail operates in an identical manner.

This isn't rocket science, so I'm not sure why Detroit feels it needs to reinvent the wheel.

New York uses it on the newer express bus lines. I've also see it done in Dallas and Athens.

[ghettopalmetto]

New York uses it on the newer express bus lines. I've also see it done in Dallas and Athens.

It's my understanding that TVMs and ticket validation are quite widespread throughtout Europe [[I've personally had the chance to ride a few of these systems). I think TVMs can get a bit pricey for touch-screen models like in the New York City Subway. I'd expect the smaller machines that fit on-board buses and trams to be more affordable.

For a few million dollars, you've improved the speed and reliability of the entire bus network. And you don't even have to lie to people and call it "Rapid Transit" to do so.

But I can understand that there is no money for such things when such vast sums have been set aside for hockey arenas and $1 billion+ freeway widenings.

[Scottathew]

M-DOT press release says that I-94 will be closed so half of the Woodward bridge can be demoed.

I-94 closure this weekend in Detroit for bridge demolition Fast Facts:
- I-94 will be closed between I-75 and M-10 at 9 p.m. Friday, Aug. 8.
- All lanes of the freeway are expected to reopen by 5 a.m. Monday, Aug. 11.
- The closure is needed for crews to demolish half of the Woodward overpass.

August 6, 2014 -- Construction crews will be closing a section of I-94 in Detroit this weekendbetween I-75 and M-10 [[Lodge Freeway). The closure will begin at 9 p.m. Friday, Aug. 8, with all lanes of the freeway expected to reopen by 5 a.m. Monday, Aug. 11. Closing this section of I-94 is necessary to allow crews to demolish the west half [[southbound lanes) of the M-1 [[Woodward Avenue) overpass above the freeway in coordination with the M-1 RAIL streetcar project.
During the closure, westbound I-94 motorists will be directed to southbound I-75 [[Chrysler Freeway), then southbound I-75 [[Fisher Freeway) to westbound I-96, and back onto westbound I-94. Eastbound I-94 motorists will be directed to eastbound I-96, then northbound I-75 [[Fisher Freeway) to northbound I-75 [[Chrysler Freeway), and back onto eastbound I-94. One lane will remain open for local traffic on eastbound I-94 from I-96 to M-10. In addition, the northbound and southbound M-10 ramps to westbound I-94 will be open.
Beginning today, M-1 will have one lane open in each direction over I-94, with a center turn lane. All traffic will be maintained on the east side [[northbound lanes) of the structure. This configuration is expected to remain in place until spring 2015. In addition, the John R. Road entrance ramp to westbound I-94, and the eastbound I-94 exit ramp to John R. Road will be closed.
M-1 RAIL is the nonprofit organization leading the design, construction and future operations of a 3.3-mile modern streetcar along Woodward Avenue between Larned Street and West Grand Boulevard in Detroit. For more information on the streetcar system, visit www.M-1RAIL.com or call 800-511-3931.

[Hermod]

But I can understand that there is no money for such things when such vast sums have been set aside for hockey arenas and $1 billion+ freeway widenings.

You do understand that those funds are from different sources and cannot be reallocated at the whim of the local officials.

[ghettopalmetto]

You do understand that those funds are from different sources and cannot be reallocated at the whim of the local officials.

I also understand that if the State of Michigan can issue bonds to fund a $600 million hockey arena, they can issue bonds to fund a $600 million rail transit project.

I also understand that the state constitution--which can be amended--limits transit spending to a maximum of 10% of all transportation funds.

I also understand that the State of Michigan is always too happy to apply for freeway money from USDOT, but you never see MDOT going to the table for transit funds from the USDOT.

I also understand that SEMCOG cheaped-out and ordained Bus Rapid Transit as a long-term regional transit solution because it "felt" that light rail and commuter rail were "unaffordable", and did so without an objective alternatives analysis.

I also understand that MDOT has no transit expertise whatsoever.

It's not a matter of rules or "impossibility". It's a matter of weak political will and lack of professional know-how to do anything beyond the 1950s mentality of Freeways And Subdivisions and Strip Malls.

[canuck]

This is the Opus card information link for Montreal transit users. Opus is a smart card you keep for four years and
"fill" depending on your intended use. Reduced fees for pensioners or students mean that they need a photo on the card for ID. TRAM cards are more expensive but allow correspondences btwn suburban trains, metro and buses. A lot of time is saved using these title cards. Montreal's metro is the third busiest subway in North America.after NYC and Mexico City.

http://www.stm.info/en/info/fares/op...edia/opus-card

[professorscott]

I also understand that SEMCOG cheaped-out and ordained Bus Rapid Transit as a long-term regional transit solution because it "felt" that light rail and commuter rail were "unaffordable", and did so without an objective alternatives analysis.

Hi Ghetto,

Most of what you said in your post I completely agree with, but this statement is, though widely believed to be the case, simply incorrect, on two levels.

First of all, the 2008 service plan was not a product of SEMCOG, but of the RTCC, the predecessor to the current nonfunctioning RTA. [[Is Mr. Ford coming on board, by the way? Just askin'.)

Second, the document is on line and you can read it; start here: http://www.semcog.org/RTCC.aspx

The long term plan includes light rail on at least two corridors. So there was no idea - and remember, this is the plan that was approved by the "big four" and is the starting point for whatever the RTA might eventually do - that we would only implement BRT and nothing but BRT.

Prof. Scott

[ghettopalmetto]

So there was no idea - and remember, this is the plan that was approved by the "big four" and is the starting point for whatever the RTA might eventually do - that we would only implement BRT and nothing but BRT.

Well, the "big four" and RTA might want to talk to the Legislature, who seems to have enacted legislation that cripples any ideas of rail.

I find it hard to take the cited study seriously. Nowhere is there any methodology stated, and nowhere is there any data that shows how they justified their conclusions. The RTCC "study" seems to have reached a conclusion that out-right adopts the "Speedlink" plan proposed by SEMCOG's Metropolitan Affairs Commission back in 2001. There's no evidence of any objective analysis conducted by the RTCC.

And any study that proposes "rapid transit" [[of any sort) along a corridor like Hall Road has to have its authors heads examined.

[WSU12]

I wish they would have saved the $140 million and put it towards building an actual dedicated rail to the suburbs. A Chicago "L" style rail along the median of I-75 onto I-375 then ending up around the RenCen on Jefferson would have been a much more effective start to a mass transit system. Or possibly I-94 to the airport, and eventually continued up to Grosse Pointe. Oh well.

[royce]

I wish they would have saved the $140 million and put it towards building an actual dedicated rail to the suburbs. A Chicago "L" style rail along the median of I-75 onto I-375 then ending up around the RenCen on Jefferson would have been a much more effective start to a mass transit system. Or possibly I-94 to the airport, and eventually continued up to Grosse Pointe. Oh well.

Well, WSU12, I have advocated in previous threads that a commuter rail on the Chrysler from Oakland Mall to the RenCen would be one way to address the concept of "rapid transit." The Chrysler is wide enough to accommodate a commuter rail. If the decision is made to turn the Chrysler Freeway into a surface street just south of Gratiot[[I-375), a commuter rail could continue the journey underground as a subway and help fill the leftover ditch.

Oakland Mall would be a great location for a park and ride set-up. There would be fewer stops than any light rail. I could see stops at Warren [[WSU), Mack [[DMC), Gratiot [[Ford Field, Comerica Park), Atwater [[RenCen/GM) as being important stops in Detroit. After that maybe stops in Hamtramck [[Holbrook) and 9 Mile[[Ferndale/Hazel Park) would be the others before ending in the suburbs at Oakland Mall. I know this is out there, but once oil/gas disappears from the Earth, what are we going to do with all of these freeways?

[emu steve]

Well, WSU12, I have advocated in previous threads that a commuter rail on the Chrysler from Oakland Mall to the RenCen would be one way to address the concept of "rapid transit." The Chrysler is wide enough to accommodate a commuter rail. If the decision is made to turn the Chrysler Freeway into a surface street just south of Gratiot[[I-375), a commuter rail could continue the journey underground as a subway and help fill the leftover ditch.

Oakland Mall would be a great location for a park and ride set-up. There would be fewer stops than any light rail. I could see stops at Warren [[WSU), Mack [[DMC), Gratiot [[Ford Field, Comerica Park), Atwater [[RenCen/GM) as being important stops in Detroit. After that maybe stops in Hamtramck [[Holbrook) and 9 Mile[[Ferndale/Hazel Park) would be the others before ending in the suburbs at Oakland Mall. I know this is out there, but once oil/gas disappears from the Earth, what are we going to do with all of these freeways?

Royce, I don't want to hijack the thread but there are alternative sources for vehicles.

I see more hybrids and electric [[maybe Tesla comes on big in a few years with a $35K vehicle which looks like it should cost 50k+).

I suspect we'll see a lot of those Tesla-sponsored charging stations, some getting energy from solar. [[as was mentioned, electricity uses a lot of coal, though).

We'll see a gradual shift away from gasoline powered cars in the next 10 or 20 years.

Stay tuned.

[professorscott]

If you live or work or study in the M1 construction area, the m-1rail.com web site now has a detailed calendar explaining what construction will be happening along each segment of the project, and when.

Also, the first bunch of track is now on site.

[emu steve]

If you live or work or study in the M1 construction area, the m-1rail.com web site now has a detailed calendar explaining what construction will be happening along each segment of the project, and when.

Also, the first bunch of track is now on site.

Does this mean that the naysayers [[that M-1 would never be built including those posting that this year) need to eat crow now or do they wait until 2016 for their meal?

Just asking...

[stasu1213]

Does this mean that the naysayers [[that M-1 would never be built including those posting that this year) need to eat crow now or do they wait until 2016 for their meal?

Just asking...

Those don't look like rails. P.S. I don't believe it until I see it Naysayer

[SpartanDawg]

construction in a good chunk of lower midtown is ramping up too now which is great.

still waiting to see the announcement of what the actual street cars will look like.. should be coming soon

[emu steve]

construction in a good chunk of lower midtown is ramping up too now which is great.

still waiting to see the announcement of what the actual street cars will look like.. should be coming soon

I'll be in town two weeks from today.

I'll have 'indisputable visual evidence', i.e., whatever photos I can get with a good cell phone camera.

BTW, need to take some photos of my old Tigers parking space at Woodward/Henry or Woodward/Sibley. Next year it will be a big hole.

[ghettopalmetto]

Those don't look like rails. P.S. I don't believe it until I see it Naysayer

In structural steel parlance, those are known as crane rail sections. They're made specifically to support operation of steel-wheeled machinery.

So yeah, back to thinking whatever you want.

[Hermod]

construction in a good chunk of lower midtown is ramping up too now which is great.

still waiting to see the announcement of what the actual street cars will look like.. should be coming soon

Something like this?
Attachment 24169

[emu steve]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...struction-site

More 'indisputable visual evidence' of imminent progress.

BTW, won't it be nice in say spring 2016 to see the stops/shelters constructed while the new arena is emerging from the ground.

[SpartanDawg]

street rails have been laid already!!!!




joking.. but they did find the old street car lines buried underneath woodward today.. pretty cool

how many people are gonna bust a nut seeing it in the center lane?!

[Lowell]

It amazes me that the city was too cheap and simply paved over the old rails. The still stick out here an there.

[SpartanDawg]

It amazes me that the city was too cheap and simply paved over the old rails. The still stick out here an there.

surprised the scrappers didn't go after it :-O