Armed robber thwarted at Packard - "no crime committed" say police

[compn]

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately.

1. what fookin good are 4 cops [[or 400) when the criminals run free and the police abandon the search?
its like you get 4 firefighter trucks to show up at your burning house, but then they dont bother trying to save your house and let it burn.

2. a report is useless? do you seriously believe that? what if they got a sketch artist from night timer and catch the guy and link him to this crime so he ends up doing time for his misdeeds?

isnt that a huge gripe with the city currently on this forum? that judges go easy on 'they boys' and criminals are rotated out of jail very quickly? well if they linked this guy to multiple crimes he would be behind bars for longer periods of time.

did the armed robber touch the truck? maybe they can pull his prints?! ever think of that?

3. i do agree with you about the mayor. because the mayor isnt in charge of the police force.
you'd have to call kevyn orr and hes not takin your calls, sucka!

[mwilbert]

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately. First and foremost did not 4 patrol cars respond? Not bad, not bad at all for a possible attempted robbery; two guys in hoodies one running with a gun, everyone is okay, nothing damaged or stolen and there isn't anything to go on like a vehicle or a known associate or identity, just two guys in hoodies. What would really be the point in filling out a bunch of paper work? The cops already know that this particular bad guys future has been settled one way or the other, but that this event is not going to be the one that settles it. Drive around see what you can see, who might still be hanging around sounds a little more practical. Pass the word around to the cops that work the packard plant area that a photographer tourist had a close call with bad guys should be a reasonable plan of attack. What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up? Based on what? A hoodie? Everyone knows that the DPD has plenty of work to do and they do exactly what the rest of us do, prioritize, and respond accordingly. The priority I would think is to respond to serious calls as quickly as they can where they can do some good. Not wasting valuable time on a complete dead end just to make someone feel better about having to make a fast exit flashing expensive camera gear in a very rough part of town.

I basically agree with this, but it isn't adequate. If someone tells the police that they either just had a gun brandished at them, or that someone just attempted an armed robbery, it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to be told that given the small amount of information available and limited police resources, the DPD isn't going to be able to follow up on this. It is less reasonable to be told that seeing a gun isn't a crime.

[davewindsor]

What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up?

YES!

A police lineup serves two purposes:

1) They may actually catch the perp.

2) It sends out a message to everybody else that this sh*t ain't gonna be tolerated anymore and the police are cleaning up the city. Word travels fast that the police are taking matters like this seriously when people are getting dragged in for a lineup. This becomes a deterrence for any future wannabe robbers.

[ABetterDetroit]

YES!

A police lineup serves two purposes:

1) They may actually catch the perp.

2) It sends out a message to everybody else that this sh*t ain't gonna be tolerated anymore and the police are cleaning up the city. Word travels fast that the police are taking matters like this seriously when people are getting dragged in for a lineup. This becomes a deterrence for any future wannabe robbers.

I would guess that you watch to much TV. Arrest people based on what? Again hoodie? Skin colour? From the OP Post they have nothing to go on. The point is they do have areas that need to be patrolled. Known bad guys with mug shots in the car that they should be looking for because the already have warrants for arrest with evidence etc... Radio calls that need to be answered. Detectives with huge case loads already aren't all that interested in taking on a his word vs. his word case when they have cases with actual evidence that need the work. Of course if anyone is the type that always knows exactly how a professional should do their job because they know everything this is all moot. I am always amazed in my career when I am called in to solve problems because some idiot called in a pro to do the work and then told him exactly how it needed to be done and when I call the pro he states "that's how they wanted it so I did it, it's not what I recommended or would have done myself" let the pros do there job that's why their pros.

[davewindsor]

I would guess that you watch to much TV. Arrest people based on what? Again hoodie? Skin colour? From the OP Post they have nothing to go on. The point is they do have areas that need to be patrolled. Known bad guys with mug shots in the car that they should be looking for because the already have warrants for arrest with evidence etc... Radio calls that need to be answered. Detectives with huge case loads already aren't all that interested in taking on a his word vs. his word case when they have cases with actual evidence that need the work. Of course if anyone is the type that always knows exactly how a professional should do their job because they know everything this is all moot. I am always amazed in my career when I am called in to solve problems because some idiot called in a pro to do the work and then told him exactly how it needed to be done and when I call the pro he states "that's how they wanted it so I did it, it's not what I recommended or would have done myself" let the pros do there job that's why their pros.

If a guy in a hoodie brandished a gun and did the same thing in the parking lot at Somerset Mall in Troy, I wonder if the police would say, f' it, I'm not writing up a report because this is not a crime or looking around the neighbourhood and rounding up suspects that match that general description. Seriously, do you think cops would do that elsewhere in metro??

If the cops are so busy, why did 4 patrol cars show up??

This is a serious matter. Suppose the perp that brandished the gun actually tried to pull the trigger, but his gun jammed or he forgot to take off the safety [[there are dumb robbers out there) there could have been a fatality. And because they didn't take him off the street, the next victim could very well be a fatality. But to you, someone brandishing a gun in an attempted robbery is not a crime.

[ABetterDetroit]

If a guy in a hoodie brandished a gun and did the same thing in the parking lot at Somerset Mall in Troy, I wonder if the police would say, f' it, I'm not writing up a report because this is not a crime or looking around the neighbourhood and rounding up suspects that match that general description. Seriously, do you think cops would do that elsewhere in metro??

If the cops are so busy, why did 4 patrol cars show up??

This is a serious matter. Suppose the perp that brandished the gun actually tried to pull the trigger, but his gun jammed or he forgot to take off the safety [[there are dumb robbers out there) there could have been a fatality. And because they didn't take him off the street, the next victim could very well be a fatality. But to you, someone brandishing a gun in an attempted robbery is not a crime.

4 patrol cars showed up because they wanted to catch a bad guy with a gun.
What description are you talking about? OP said "hoodies" was all they had. Here in America you can't just start "rounding up suspects" anywhere. Where is this Windsor you hail from? Old gangster movies? nazi Germany? Or some third world dictatorship?

[Django]

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

[KOMPOST]

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

Right on.
I think it's important that this moment especially is being well-documented in Detroit. Some dismiss this as "more ruin porn" and that may be the case in some instances, but Detroit is rapidly evolving and its current condition is not static.
I applaud your and NT's efforts in detailing this unique metropolis.
Also, I'd like to highlight NT's sympathy for his would-be attackers. Such compassion is extremely rare, especially mere hours after a potentially life-threatening experience.
Bravo to you both.

[Honky Tonk]

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

Just curious, what is Django Tours "Plan B" in case Night Timer didn't or doesn't make it into your truck in time? What if the unthinkable happens, and he does get shot, what's the plan? "He's documenting the change", is he staying for the Packard Plant rehab? Detroit may not be the Gaza Strip, but the dangers are very real. Look @ the poor kid from the Nethearlands. Shot in face, unidentified body, lying tagged in the morgue. That certainly would dampen that cavalier spirit.

[gnome]

Just curious, what is Django Tours "Plan B" in case Night Timer didn't or doesn't make it into your truck in time? What if the unthinkable happens, and he does get shot, what's the plan? "He's documenting the change", is he staying for the Packard Plant rehab? Detroit may not be the Gaza Strip, but the dangers are very real. Look @ the poor kid from the Nethearlands. Shot in face, unidentified body, lying tagged in the morgue. That certainly would dampen that cavalier spirit.

You are asking a hypothetical question and drawing conclusions based on an answer that was not given; then you correlate a separate incident with little in common with the OP scenario.

i have known Django for awhile and he does not conduct his tours with anything close to a cavalier spirit. You seem to be blaming the victims in this scenario. By extension anyone living within the metroplex could be blamed if they become a crime victim. After all, if you are robbed while changing your car tire, you should have paid extra for run-flat tires and not had the hubris to drive on a public roadway. Everyone knows the roads here are terrible, so it's your own fault if you get robbed.

I am afraid the logical extension of your premise condemns us all to the callous disregard of our countrymen.

Moreover, the second guessing game has no winners. To posit a set of events that didn't happen can go on forever. What if the truck had stalled? What if the gunman stumbled and fell under the truck? What if Night Timer had swung his tripod and clocked the gunman? What if the Security Guard was there and got involved? What if an oncoming car sideswiped the truck ... on and on to no useful conclusion.

[Honky Tonk]

You are asking a hypothetical question and drawing conclusions based on an answer that was not given; then you correlate a separate incident with little in common with the OP scenario.

i have known Django for awhile and he does not conduct his tours with anything close to a cavalier spirit. You seem to be blaming the victims in this scenario. By extension anyone living within the metroplex could be blamed if they become a crime victim. After all, if you are robbed while changing your car tire, you should have paid extra for run-flat tires and not had the hubris to drive on a public roadway. Everyone knows the roads here are terrible, so it's your own fault if you get robbed.

I am afraid the logical extension of your premise condemns us all to the callous disregard of our countrymen.

Moreover, the second guessing game has no winners. To posit a set of events that didn't happen can go on forever. What if the truck had stalled? What if the gunman stumbled and fell under the truck? What if Night Timer had swung his tripod and clocked the gunman? What if the Security Guard was there and got involved? What if an oncoming car sideswiped the truck ... on and on to no useful conclusion.

Thanx for explaining and for your opinion. To me your tire analogy comparison would be akin to "awww @#&$, I got a flat tire, hope I can change it and get out of here in one piece" to "you know what, dammit, I'm going to drive to the corner of Warren and Bewick, unarmed, and change my tire just to prove I can". When people post things like "As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot", and "he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it", a lot of questions pop up in my head.

[gnome]

Thanx for explaining and for your opinion. To me your tire analogy comparison would be akin to "awww @#&$, I got a flat tire, hope I can change it and get out of here in one piece" to "you know what, dammit, I'm going to drive to the corner of Warren and Bewick, unarmed, and change my tire just to prove I can". When people post things like "As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot", and "he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it", a lot of questions pop up in my head.

I think I see where you are going with that, and if I do, I might not disagree; however, my previous comment was based on the general dislike for hypotheticals. We don't know what would have happened with Plan B because Plan A worked. While they might be fun things to play with, hypotheticals usually lead to conclusions not held in evidence.

For my pennies, Danny has it right, but Django makes an ok life for himself with giving tours. Through the years, folks have come from all over for tours he gives. Books have been written about those tours and they authors have come to this forum to laud Django for his efforts.

to my knowledge no one has ever been injured on one of his tours, no one robbed and no one disappointed.

[Dan Wesson]

Nothing like exciting commentary to accompany the photographs.

Vini, Vidi, Vici

[Django]

What is plan B? You give up the gear, if he gets shot or I get shot we wind up in the hospital or the morgue. What is the point of your questions. We don't all just sit at home and play it safe, some of us take chances in life. I follow my gut and do the best I can. Are we going to stop shooting the Packard? hell no.

[Danny]

What is plan B? You give up the gear, if he gets shot or I get shot we wind up in the hospital or the morgue. What is the point of your questions. We don't all just sit at home and play it safe, some of us take chances in life. I follow my gut and do the best I can. Are we going to stop shooting the Packard? hell no.

My advice Django, Don't go out the ghettos of Detroit exploring abandon buildings alone or with anyone else without protection.

[Honky Tonk]

My advice Django, Don't go out the ghettos of Detroit exploring abandon buildings alone or with anyone else without protection.

The best suggestion yet.

[Hastings]

The best suggestion yet.

Agreed,with a name like that I'd expect a Colt SAA at the least. Tool up Django

[Django]

What set my alarm off was that they were wearing hoodies on a a hot summer day with hoods up. One was grey the other a darker color. Who the hell weares a sweat shirt on a 90 degree day. They were both about 5'6" both slim running at us with a gun, that's about all I noticed. The police seemed to be taking scribbled notes my Aussie friend said, seemingly to appease us as if he was doing something. Honestly even if the four cop cars did take off to scope out the few blocks where this happened on Concord the hoodies and guns were dumped and they most likely split up knowing full well we called the police on them so I doubt anything would have come up but it seems like they could have spared three of the four cars to check out the area but they all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

[Honky Tonk]

What set my alarm off was that they were wearing hoodies on a a hot summer day with hoods up. One was grey the other a darker color. Who the hell weares a sweat shirt on a 90 degree day. They were both about 5'6" both slim running at us with a gun, that's about all I noticed. The police seemed to be taking scribbled notes my Aussie friend said, seemingly to appease us as if he was doing something. Honestly even if the four cop cars did take off to scope out the few blocks where this happened on Concord the hoodies and guns were dumped and they most likely split up knowing full well we called the police on them so I doubt anything would have come up but it seems like they could have spared three of the four cars to check out the area but they all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

Your spider sense was dead on. People can post all the pseudo-racist, neo-nazi, Dr. Feelgood DPD crap they want on here. Street sense will tell you somethings up, and start making exit plans NOW. My only issue is you really need to start thinking about some kind of back-up plan. These guy's are targeting "spelunking" and photography people as victims. Things aren't as they were 15 years ago, but you know that. Too many stories floating around about the not-so-fortunates. You don't want to start your own thread about your demise.

[Dan Wesson]

but they, [[cops), all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

There's saftey in numbers...

[Django]

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

[neavling]

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

Danny, I'm not going to argue with you about the Second Amendment. I'm just telling you it is a crime to be in the possession of a firearm [[legally or not) while committing a crime.

[Hastings]

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

Good place for a stick up.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

I don't really think it matters in which part of Detroit this happened, inside a building or not, you represent a quick score to a professional thief [[carrying a gun makes him a professional) I would say if you are going to be shooting film in sketchy locations throughout the city then having a firearm to protect your life might be a "life extending" move...screw the equipment that can be replaced. But along with CCW are the psychological aspects of taking another life and all the training required to be able to successfully draw and fire a weapon in a one on one situation, but based on your post it seems like your just willing to live with the risk of losing your life...Its a choice but hey this coulda been a one time bad deal and won't happen again for another 5 or more years.

[Django]

I don't really think it matters in which part of Detroit this happened, inside a building or not, you represent a quick score to a professional thief [[carrying a gun makes him a professional) I would say if you are going to be shooting film in sketchy locations throughout the city then having a firearm to protect your life might be a "life extending" move...screw the equipment that can be replaced. But along with CCW are the psychological aspects of taking another life and all the training required to be able to successfully draw and fire a weapon in a one on one situation, but based on your post it seems like your just willing to live with the risk of losing your life...Its a choice but hey this coulda been a one time bad deal and won't happen again for another 5 or more years.

You are right East Side Cat, it doesnt matter where you are. These I can confidently say were not pros but just opportunistic kids with a gun. They will no doubt go to prison a few times in their life and learn how to become a professional criminal. Having a gun does not make you a pro and if they were pros they would have gotten the gear without a shot fired and I thank the Lord for not having a shot fired. They were big and shiny wearing Ding Dongs wearing hoodies in 90 degree weather.
No I do not think I could live a sane free life if I had taken a life with a gun. I do not feel buying a handgun will be the answer to violence. I truly laugh that people think that if everybody had a gun there would be less violence in the country. I will not carry a gun and I will take my chances. I have faith that people are generally good at heart and do not want to shoot a stranger. In this instance at the Packard I made a split second decision to get the fuck out of there and I decided to step on the gas and it goes through my mind ever since that I may have gotten Aussie shot or killed all in the name of a few thousand dollars in photo equipment. I just do not feel more guns is the answer.