Rail Transit Construction and Rehab 2014

**mwilbert** · July-27-14, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

In other words, a linear people mover and parking shuttle.

Am I supposed to think that is a bad thing? Certainly this isn't the light rail line I would build if I were king, but I'm not, and this is what is in prospect. It will do what a short light rail line running in traffic can do. From a transportation perspective, that isn't much different from what buses could do. From the standpoint of changing people's perceptions of the Woodward corridor and greater downtown, and perhaps the city, it probably is, and clearly that is what the backers think. Maybe they will turn out to be mistaken.

**mwilbert** · July-27-14, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Groundbreaking is not starting tomorrow as expected

I know you are skeptical of this project, but they are starting work on the line tomorrow. The ceremonial groundbreaking, which is completely irrelevant to anything, isn't until September. If you want to think that means that the project isn't really going to happen, OK, but in reality it doesn't mean anything.

**stasu1213** · July-27-14, 05:25 PM

The initial report in June was the Groundbreaking was to begin July 28. I would agree with you if this was happening in any other city. Dtroit has a history of saying one thing and then going back and changing the report or giving a play on words especially pertaining to this light rail system which I wouldn't be surprised won't happen

**royce** · July-28-14, 02:31 AM

Stasu1213, an electronic street sign on Woodward has been announcing that construction would begin on July 28, 2014. Matt Cullen, head of the M1 project, was on Flashpoint Sunday morning indicating the construction timeline. It's gonna happen.

**royce** · July-28-14, 02:58 AM

I have seen the naysayers on here and in the papers write that this rail line is a waste of money, especially taxpayer money. It's sad to here how uninformed many in this metropolitan area are about this project and where the money is coming from. Regarding money, I see two benefits to this new rail line: one, it should cut down on millions of dollars in maintenance costs spent annually; and two, that light rail, because it is run on battery and/or electricity, is a cleaner mode of transportation than diesel spewing busses. No explanation needed here.

First off, rail cars don't need tires or have overworked engines, needing constant maintenance from mechanics to repair them like busses do. What you hear from the heads of DDOT and SMART are statements that the busses have hundreds of thousands of miles on them and that they are in constant need of repair, or that they need to be replaced. I believe that if people saw the yearly expenses to maintain the bus systems here and then looked at the budgets of maintaining a light rail system from cities that have them, then I firmly believe that they would change their attitudes in favor of light rail. Also, because light rail needs fewer repairs, there's no delays in service like that of busses. Maybe someone can find out the breakdown of running light rail versus busses. I'll see what I can find.

The second benefit light rail has is that because it runs on battery and/or electricity, it is a cleaner mode of transportation than diesel spewing busses. Again, no explanation needed here.

In summary, one must always compare upfront costs with long terms costs when comparing two investments. I am confident that light rail costs over the years will be cheaper than the costs of running busses. Also, I think once people see that light rail is cheaper in the long run, they'll be open to expanding the line to Birmingham or Pontiac.

**stasu1213** · July-28-14, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by royce

Stasu1213, an electronic street sign on Woodward has been announcing that construction would begin on July 28, 2014. Matt Cullen, head of the M1 project, was on Flashpoint Sunday morning indicating the construction timeline. It's gonna happen.

The same comments were responded to me a few yesrs back and also last year when the Groundbreaking was scheduled. It will happed but when. Cmon. This project had been set back since 2007 or 2008 wjen Gilbert and others want to build it then. Everyone need to study the psttern pertaining to change of construction start date.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-28-14, 07:03 AM

My goodness it started! On Friday I had my doubts due to some of the approvals I had to make.

**Hermod** · July-28-14, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by royce

I have seen the naysayers on here and in the papers write that this rail line is a waste of money, especially taxpayer money. It's sad to here how uninformed many in this metropolitan area are about this project and where the money is coming from. Regarding money, I see two benefits to this new rail line: one, it should cut down on millions of dollars in maintenance costs spent annually; and two, that light rail, because it is run on battery and/or electricity, is a cleaner mode of transportation than diesel spewing busses. No explanation needed here.

First off, rail cars don't need tires or have overworked engines, needing constant maintenance from mechanics to repair them like busses do. What you hear from the heads of DDOT and SMART are statements that the busses have hundreds of thousands of miles on them and that they are in constant need of repair, or that they need to be replaced. I believe that if people saw the yearly expenses to maintain the bus systems here and then looked at the budgets of maintaining a light rail system from cities that have them, then I firmly believe that they would change their attitudes in favor of light rail. Also, because light rail needs fewer repairs, there's no delays in service like that of busses. Maybe someone can find out the breakdown of running light rail versus busses. I'll see what I can find.

The second benefit light rail has is that because it runs on battery and/or electricity, it is a cleaner mode of transportation than diesel spewing busses. Again, no explanation needed here.

In summary, one must always compare upfront costs with long terms costs when comparing two investments. I am confident that light rail costs over the years will be cheaper than the costs of running busses. Also, I think once people see that light rail is cheaper in the long run, they'll be open to expanding the line to Birmingham or Pontiac.

No doubt about it, electric rail cars are cheaper to operate than diesel powered buses.

On the other hand, the rails and overhead wire have much greater costs than the street for the buses. One of the reasons for trolley abandonment in Detroit was that the rails and their roadbeds were plain worn out and the investment costs to rebuild them were so much higher than paving them over and running buses.

**ABetterDetroit** · July-28-14, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

My goodness it started! On Friday I had my doubts due to some of the approvals I had to make.

Yes, it has started. Now the naysayers will rule for the next 2 years.

"All things must pass"
-George Harrison

**Junjie** · July-28-14, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

In other words, a linear people mover and parking shuttle.

Better than the one that goes in circles, at least.... Reminds me of my favorite transit quote. "There's a problem with loops, and it's so obvious that it's easy to forget: very few people want to travel in circles."

Anyway, I think this will actually turn out to be more useful than a lot of people are expecting. Nobody visiting Detroit for fun rides Detroit buses. Many people visiting Detroit will ride this streetcar. That's just how it works in a country where riding a bus is assumed to imply poverty. And being able to park once, then visit all of DIA/WSU/Midtown/Comerica/Pizzarena/Fox/Downtown will be a real benefit that makes visiting any of those single venues more attractive. It even connects to Amtrak. That's a pretty good bang for the buck on a 3 mile segment.

**stasu1213** · July-29-14, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by Junjie

Better than the one that goes in circles, at least.... Reminds me of my favorite transit quote. "There's a problem with loops, and it's so obvious that it's easy to forget: very few people want to travel in circles."

Anyway, I think this will actually turn out to be more useful than a lot of people are expecting. Nobody visiting Detroit for fun rides Detroit buses. Many people visiting Detroit will ride this streetcar. That's just how it works in a country where riding a bus is assumed to imply poverty. And being able to park once, then visit all of DIA/WSU/Midtown/Comerica/Pizzarena/Fox/Downtown will be a real benefit that makes visiting any of those single venues more attractive. It even connects to Amtrak. That's a pretty good bang for the buck on a 3 mile segment.

It would be a good idea for the Midtown/New Center area to start getting better retail especially a City Target inside New Center One so commuters will have a destination to go to when traveling on the light rail from downtown