Ilitch announces Huge plans for Red Wings Arena Project - Renderings Released

[Zads07]

Looks pretty good, though I'd like to see old renderings of the Comerica Park project to get a feel for how likely this is to get pulled off.

Here's the link to the renderings of Comerica Park.

http://www.stadiumpage.com/future/Comerica_G.html

[Bobl]

An expanding island of prosperity is desirable, but as long as mobs can attack motorists in the neighborhoods, with a total of 7.6 years in jail for all of those who were caught, and young people are running amok killing each other, daily, I am not enthusiastic or optimistic about the future of this beautiful mean town.
I hope that I am proven wrong.

[Zads07]

I don't know why Ilitch should be getting credit for spending millions on public infrastructure. That's not his money that's being used to do those upgrades.

It actually is Novine.

"Ilitch said the organization will spend “tens of millions” on public infrastructure — paving, landscaping, new parks and streetlights — throughout the new neighborhoods in addition to the commitment for $200 million in private investment for mixed-use developments around the arena."

http://www.freep.com/article/20140720/NEWS01/307200107

Fourth 'graph

[mikeg19]

I wholeheartedly disagree with mikeg and emu_steve. This is a family that has sold Little Caesars "pizza" for 50 years. Do you really think they give half a shit about "legacy"?

They found a niche for cheap pizza and capitalized on it. There target demographic isn't someone who wants to shell out $20 for a Chicago deep dish. So I'm not sure what the point is to question how they made their money. They aren't Columbian drug dealers.



The Ilitch moonscape isn't being filled with an arena and leaseable space out of the goodness of their hearts. They're taking advantage of a twice-in-a-lifetime ca$h grab. And all they had to do was let their properties go to hell in a handbasket, and play on the emotions and egos of the Detroit Red Wings fanbase. Congratulations, and enjoy your new strip mall--after all, you're paying for it.

I can see that you'd prefer a closed off box with no retail or restaurants or bars or nightlife in this new stadium design. Last time I checked, nobody built anything for free and was completely within their legal rights to pursue any means necessary [[legally, of course) to find funding and avenues to lessen the burden on them. Am I happy they knocked down buildings and let things go to waste and rot? Absolutely not. But for them to have this vision and [[hopefully) complete it in it's entirety, well I'm not sure how much else you can ask for. What has happened in the past is over. Can't un-implode buildings last time I checked.

And thank you, I will enjoy a cold beer and stroll around the new stadium district once it's finished.

[emu steve]

It's a bit confusing, but it seems to me that the 'deconstructed arena' means that the souvenir stands and concessions will be in out-buildings along a covered alley. Great concept. Perhaps like Ford Field's Hudson Warehouse side. That said, I am not understanding how this works with security and ticketing. If you are supposed to pop out onto the alley for food and gear, and said alley is publicly accessible, are you allowed back in? Will that be onerous?

By covered streets I am guessing something a bit mall-like, or, in John Gallagher's mind [[and I don't particularly blame him, upon close inspection of the renderings), galleria-like. You know, all Milanese and what not This doesn't bother me too much if this galleria is going to constitute the arena concourse. Again, though, some of the assertions that this is going to be public space still kind of make me scratch my head.

BTW, I've tried to disaggregate the rendering and this is what I got [[using that beautiful drawing with the Red Wing logo on the roof of the arena):

Upper right hand corner could be an Ilitch-built office building at Woodward/Temple.

Next, the Wings' offices.

Next, the Wings' store.

Next, lower right hand corner, appears to be maybe general retail or food or ?

Next, there are two perpendicular buildings which appear to be a hotel [[not an Ilitch-built building).

Next, adjacent to the hotel are green space and a parking garage.

Next, moving north from the hotel are two Ilitch-built residentials [[mid-rise) 'attached' to the arena.

Next, immediately north of the parking garage are connected buildings. I have no idea what? who?

Next, moving to the left side of the drawing, I see a plaza with some unidentified buildings behind them. What? Who?

Next, I see parking and the two big buildings folks here want to save.

Next, at the very top of the drawing is some housing? What? Who? [[I'd assume that is an artist's creation and not something Ilitches plan on building but who knows...).

[dtowncitylover]

Looks pretty good, though I'd like to see old renderings of the Comerica Park project to get a feel for how likely this is to get pulled off.

If you saw the renderings for Comerica, it was not as bold as this plan is. It was mostly just building a stadium as opposed to an entire new district.

Also, it's interesting to see the creation of new "neighborhoods". Columbia Park. Cass Park [[more solidified). Wildcat Corner [[a better name could've been chosen...sounds like a country bar).

[emu steve]

If you saw the renderings for Comerica, it was not as bold as this plan is. It was mostly just building a stadium as opposed to an entire new district.

Also, it's interesting to see the creation of new "neighborhoods". Columbia Park. Cass Park [[more solidified). Wildcat Corner [[a better name could've been chosen...sounds like a country bar).

I've wondered about this.

Columbia Park and Wildcat Corner aren't anything really new. I see minimal change here.

The big one is Cass Park. That could be trying to build a whole new neighborhood out of an area which doesn't have much going on now.

I drove through it when I was in Detroit two weeks ago and it was blah.

[ghettopalmetto]

If you saw the renderings for Comerica, it was not as bold as this plan is. It was mostly just building a stadium as opposed to an entire new district.

Also, it's interesting to see the creation of new "neighborhoods". Columbia Park. Cass Park [[more solidified). Wildcat Corner [[a better name could've been chosen...sounds like a country bar).

About that "district":

The Ilitches are under no obligation to construct anything beyond an arena. It has been reported, however, that they will commit $200 million toward building retail, offices, and residential spaces.

To put that in perspective, the Compuware building cost $350 million when it was constructed. So this entire pre-fab shopping mall district, despite what the drawings show, will be approximately half of one Compuware. Depending on what bells and whistles they've included within the scope of the actual arena, the $200 million may only be enough money to construct the privately-owned "arcades" that Ilitch will use to keep your money inside his building.

Suffice it to say, the $636 million price tag is only sufficient to construct a very small fraction of what is shown in the renderings. And you bet your ass that each and every one of those new buildings will be designed to funnel your cash directly into Mike Ilitch's taxpayer-fattened wallet.

Good work, Detroit!

[dtowncitylover]

About that "district":

The Ilitches are under no obligation to construct anything beyond an arena. It has been reported, however, that they will commit $200 million toward building retail, offices, and residential spaces.

To put that in perspective, the Compuware building cost $350 million when it was constructed. So this entire pre-fab shopping mall district, despite what the drawings show, will be approximately half of one Compuware. Depending on what bells and whistles they've included within the scope of the actual arena, the $200 million may only be enough money to construct the privately-owned "arcades" that Ilitch will use to keep your money inside his building.

Suffice it to say, the $636 million price tag is only sufficient to construct a very small fraction of what is shown in the renderings. And you bet your ass that each and every one of those buildings will be designed to funnel your cash directly into Mike Ilitch's wallet.

Good work, Detroit!

You are very bitter. As much as a bold plan this is, I don't think the Illitches want to spend all their money building an entirely new neighborhood. They are probably looking for other investors/developers, both public and private, to go in with them on this.

[Detroitnerd]

I have a prediction. The areas controlled by Ilitch and his organizations will see slower growth than adjoining areas that were given no subsidies. In fact, the area between the stadium and the casino will mostly be a dead zone and any new construction completed by 2017 will have to be taken down in 30 years.

See? No arguing, just an informed guess. Take it or leave it.

[emu steve]

About that "district":

The Ilitches are under no obligation to construct anything beyond an arena. It has been reported, however, that they will commit $200 million toward building retail, offices, and residential spaces.

To put that in perspective, the Compuware building cost $350 million when it was constructed. So this entire pre-fab shopping mall district, despite what the drawings show, will be approximately half of one Compuware. Depending on what bells and whistles they've included within the scope of the actual arena, the $200 million may only be enough money to construct the privately-owned "arcades" that Ilitch will use to keep your money inside his building.

Suffice it to say, the $636 million price tag is only sufficient to construct a very small fraction of what is shown in the renderings. And you bet your ass that each and every one of those new buildings will be designed to funnel your cash directly into Mike Ilitch's taxpayer-fattened wallet.

Good work, Detroit!

And, on the other hand, Ilitches spend 200 - 300M [[beyond the arena) AND some venture capitalists come along and drop another 100M or so.

You say arena + NOTHING? Maybe it is an arena + 300 - 400M?

There are orgs like CalPers [[California employees retirement system) looking to invest big dollars on projects which will guarantee a good return. [[the money could be secured by the Tigers or Wings).

There is a lot of money sitting on the sidelines waiting for a good project to invest in.

[Novine]

'"Ilitch said the organization will spend “tens of millions” on public infrastructure — paving, landscaping, new parks and streetlights — throughout the new neighborhoods in addition to the commitment for $200 million in private investmentfor mixed-use developments around the arena."

I read that. I also know that a chunk of the public money being funneled into this project is for that very purpose. Also, the Red Wings get use of the new arena rent-free and get to keep all revenue generated at the arena. Ilitch was able to socialize the costs of the new arena and privatize the profits.

[Novine]

I'm going to predict that the parking lots in front of Comerica aren't going anywhere soon. Check back in a year and we'll see if there's construction or cars in that area.

[cman710]

It's a bit confusing, but it seems to me that the 'deconstructed arena' means that the souvenir stands and concessions will be in out-buildings along a covered alley. Great concept. Perhaps like Ford Field's Hudson Warehouse side. That said, I am not understanding how this works with security and ticketing. If you are supposed to pop out onto the alley for food and gear, and said alley is publicly accessible, are you allowed back in? Will that be onerous?

By covered streets I am guessing something a bit mall-like, or, in John Gallagher's mind [[and I don't particularly blame him, upon close inspection of the renderings), galleria-like. You know, all Milanese and what not This doesn't bother me too much if this galleria is going to constitute the arena concourse. Again, though, some of the assertions that this is going to be public space still kind of make me scratch my head.

Perhaps it will be open to the public aside from certain hours before and after a game? Even then, though, they would need some way to prevent people without tickets from getting into the seating area.

[bailey]

You are very bitter. As much as a bold plan this is, I don't think the Illitches want to spend all their money building an entirely new neighborhood. They are probably looking for other investors/developers, both public and private, to go in with them on this.

There is nothing "bold" about a plan that is mostly make believe. Nothing on that drawing that isn't stadium or parking deck is getting built.

Seriously folks, how many times are we going to let Lucy hold the football?

[canuck]

You are very bitter. As much as a bold plan this is, I don't think the Illitches want to spend all their money building an entirely new neighborhood. They are probably looking for other investors/developers, both public and private, to go in with them on this.

Fair enough. As long as the 40-odd city block hoarder does better than his past record shows. I understand the frustration that the Russians have vis-à-vis the oligarchs. Detroit has a couple of controversial capitalists in need of supervision. The kind of block intervention Tyree Guyton does creates steam between the eats of some, Illitch can take the heat at his level of comfort.

[dtowncitylover]

There is nothing "bold" about a plan that is mostly make believe. Nothing on that drawing that isn't stadium or parking deck is getting built.

Seriously folks, how many times are we going to let Lucy hold the football?

I'm pretty sure you said this about the M-1 tram...of course what did you think about Book Cadillac, Broderick Tower, Compuware?

Anyways...just because this may or may not get built doesn't mean it's not a bold plan. This is a bold plan. What did I hear? The largest building undertaking since the Renaissance Center? 40 years of scaled back projects or nothing, then this!

I'm pretty left of center but believe in the capitalist system in most instances. Many people cry, "let the private sector build it!". Now that the private sector wants to build something, we are dispraging it. I think some of you are pissy because it's an interesting and engaging plan coming from an unlikely source.

My thinking is that since Illitch can't get a Tigers championship, this will be his own monument for us to remember. Like a pharoah building a pyramid.

[emu steve]

Christopher Ilitch responds to the "Doubting Thomases", "Debbie Downers" and other naysayers...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-had-wait-hurt-

“But we had to wait and that hurt. It took us 15 years to accumulate the property so we can achieve this transformative project,” Ilitch said. “Now we really have been unharnessed, unleashed,” he said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz387dSWWZv

This was essentially Gistok's view that the Ilitches had a very, very difficult time trying to assemble the parcels necessary.

My recollection is that the Ilitches planned on an arena BEHIND THE FOX but it failed because of a few holdout owners, including one with a very difficult family trust.

Next, they started assembling parcels along Woodward and near the MC Casino with the hope that one would work out.

One point which hasn't been made: The Ilitches HAVE A VESTED INTEREST in building up their land near the MC Casino.

[Novine]

Dan Gilbert's done more for downtown Detroit in the past 5 years than Ilitch has and he did it all without a multi-page spread in the Freep of his "bold plan". I get why people are enamored of "bold plans" but great cities aren't generally the result of someone's "bold plan". It's the incremental progress that happens building by building and block by block that has turned around downtown Detroit.

[Novine]

"Christopher Ilitch responds to the "Doubting Thomases", "Debbie Downers" and other naysayers..."

If that's what he has to tell himself. How many historic buildings had to be demolished or sit blighted because of Ilitch's "vision". Thank goodness that some of them, like the GAR building, escaped the grasp of Ilitch Enterprises.

[ghettopalmetto]

Christopher Ilitch responds to the "Doubting Thomases", "Debbie Downers" and other naysayers...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-had-wait-hurt-

Well, that's great. I'm glad the City of Detroit has found a way to turn over its master planning activities to Olympia Entertainment. But let's be realistic. The footprint of a hockey arena is [[maybe) two city blocks. There is a $200 million kitty for building apartments, offices, etc. Based on comparable projects [[such as the $130 million Gallery Place project in DC), that kind of money will get you about 4 city blocks worth of 3-4 story buildings in Detroit. So what will we see on the other 35 blocks? What of the moonscape behind the Fox Theatre? The money allocated is just not sufficient to construct everything described in these "plans" [[which are just that--PLANS).

I'm sure the new arena will be a lot nicer [[and pricier!) than the Joe. But let's not be too shocked when the bulk of Ilitch's property in this area remains empty lots. No amount of "probably"s and "maybe"s is going to negate that.

[emu steve]

Well, that's great. I'm glad the City of Detroit has found a way to turn over its master planning activities to Olympia Entertainment. But let's be realistic. The footprint of a hockey arena is [[maybe) two city blocks. .

Without the arena, those blocks would be dirt and surface parking, maybe for decades to come.

The only 'demand' for that land was for speculators who wanted to flip it to Ilitch for a big ransom.

[mikeg19]

About that "district":
Depending on what bells and whistles they've included within the scope of the actual arena, the $200 million may only be enough money to construct the privately-owned "arcades" that Ilitch will use to keep your money inside his building.

And you bet your ass that each and every one of those new buildings will be designed to funnel your cash directly into Mike Ilitch's taxpayer-fattened wallet.

Good work, Detroit!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't buildings/restaurants/bars/stadiums/malls/casinos, well basically every place you go, designed to "keep your money inside his building"? Kinda the purpose of going to a destination. You could say that Dan Gilbert is trying to keep your money in his businesses and venues. Maybe that's why these guys are successful business owners.

Don't get me wrong Ghetto, I'm not trying to jump on your back, as I'm sure we are all skeptical regarding any Illitch developments, but for all intensive purposes, it appears that this development is legit for what they are proposing. I don't think they are promising anything pie-in-the-sky for $50 bucks where we can say it ain't gonna happen.

[ghettopalmetto]

Without the arena, those blocks would be dirt and surface parking, maybe for decades to come.

The only 'demand' for that land was for speculators who wanted to flip it to Ilitch for a big ransom.

But with a hockey arena, there will suddenly be demand? Think about how silly that is. There are two empty lots in front of Comerica Park...the ballpark hasn't created any "demand" to build there, has it? Ford Field is still a dead zone 350 days a year. In fact, you can't find a single city in America where a hockey arena has created "demand" over a 40-block area. It just doesn't happen because you guess it will.

I'm not saying that Ilitch won't be able to fill a few blocks with chain restaurants and chain bars, and a couple of apartment buildings. But that's going to be the extent of it. There just isn't any money programmed to build out the remaining 35 blocks. And if you think Ilitch is going to let another developer come and play on his property, you're out of your damned mind.

But I remember that I'm writing to myself. l keep forgetting that fundamental laws of development and construction aren't applicable in Detroit, because Press Releases and Renderings carry more weight than the reality on the ground.

[gnome]

This entire complex reminds me of Trapper's Alley, AutoWorld and any number of other manufactured downtowns. It is another Big Idea that will not work as planned. Just like the RenCen and it's unrealized rollout of development along the riverfront. While the RenCen is much better since GM took it over, it still lacks any real shopping and suffers from unimagined vacancies.

In Dtroit top down solutions rarely work. Small businesses, where the owners have real skin in the game, is the only way to build a community. The least effective way will be to have a garishly designed entertainment district all built by public funds for private profit.