Ilitch announces Huge plans for Red Wings Arena Project - Renderings Released

[Honky Tonk]

Correction: Olympia DECIDED TO PUT THE ARENA within 100 feet of the Park Ave Hotel.

Your're not suggesting that was done on purpose are you? Why I'm appalled....

[animatedmartian]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...oric/19047511/

The City Council has issued a strong recommendation to Olympia to include Park Avenue Hotel in its rezoning request.

[Gistok]

Wow.... Detroit City Council.... making sense.... good to see!

If other developers can redevelop the Strathmore... then there should be a stronger chance of redeveloping both the Park Ave. and Eddystone. Only the Ilitch's aren't the best at doing that! In fact once they redeveloped the Fox Building/Theatre... they seem to have totally forgotten how to redevelop ANYTHING!!

It's starting to sound like the Ilitch's are getting back to their preferred method of development for the Arena site... that starts with an empty slate.

Their approach here appears to mirror what they did at Comerica Park. A perfectly good mothballed 17 story Wolverine Hotel, and the 8 story YWCA both came down... for nothing more than surface parking lots there...

[animatedmartian]

And what's worse is that they totally have the resources to do a pretty good preservation job. Half the rest of the restorations in Detroit seem to have been done with barebone groups and non-profit organizations.

[Gistok]

The Illitch's had an option on the GAR Building... but didn't know how to redevelop that small project. So that reverted back to the city, which then picked a small group to redevelop it successfully.

They own the Life Building and Blenheim Apartments on Park Ave., and haven't figured out how to redevelop those.

They own the United Artists Building... they finally figured out how to "mothball" but not redevelop that.

They own the Fine Arts Building facade on GCP [[which they let deteriorate to the point of interior collapse)... they haven't figured out how to redevelop that.

And the Grand Order of the MOOSE on Cass Ave., they haven't figured out how to redevelop that either.

In fact they show an embarrassing lack of redevelopment skills, for someone taking on such a large project such as the Arena district... and their planned entertainment district beyond!



So when their consultants say....

"We're trying to figure some things out. I'll be very honest, we're not having a lot of good results," Olympia contractor Richard Heapes told the council committee on Nov. 6.

.... is this a surprise to anyone who knows the Ilitch modus operandi??

And then there's this doozie from the best and brightest of the next generation of Ilitch's... Chris Ilitch....

"Our goal is to use those buildings in this project," Christopher Ilitch told the Free Press in July, when the family rolled out plans for a new district surrounding the arena. "If we can't figure out a way to use them productively, then they become liabilities, and they may go away."

Unfortunately the key phrase here is "if we can't figure out a way".... which we know they are incapable of, or more likely just not interested in doing!

BTW... this is the same Chris Ilitch who refused to meet with the National Trust For Historic Preservation president Richard Moe back in 2005, in order to discuss the Madison-Lenox Hotel coming down...

[animatedmartian]

Is it really that hard to restore an old building? The only thing I can think of is that they want to do it a cheap as possible but find that restoration is not cheap.

[casscorridor]

It's starting to sound like the Ilitch's are getting back to their preferred method of development for the Arena site... that starts with an empty slate.

Their approach here appears to mirror what they did at Comerica Park. A perfectly good mothballed 17 story Wolverine Hotel, and the 8 story YWCA both came down... for nothing more than surface parking lots there...

I mean, come on, who really expected anything better???

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Let's think. A building formerly used as a hotel, in an area with a high demand for residential projects. Now what could they possibly do with that building.......its a total mystery. What in the world could it be reused for.....

I can see why their expert consultants are totally stumped.

[Gistok]

I mean, come on, who really expected anything better???

Agreed... we already knew this was happening.... But what will be interesting will be when other developers come forward and offer to buy those 2 buildings and redevelop them as part of a greater Arena District.

Then it will get interesting as the Ilitch's try to come up with excuses why this is not a good idea... just as it took at least 8 years for anyone to redevelop the Women's Exchange Building on East GCP [[right next to Comerica Park). It finally took former Red Wing Chris Chelios to step to the plate before the Ilitch's would concede to a redevelopment plan, which included necessary nearby parking [[which they weren't about to let anyone else have).

This whole process with the Park Ave. and Eddystone Hotels will likely become quite a battle... and possibly quite ugly.

[Gistok]

The City Council should find out what kind of Federal Historic Tax Credit money could be lost should these 2 buildings come down. And then ask the Ilitch's how they can be so cavalier at thumbing their noses at this potential Federal redevelopment money, when they are already feeding at the State and City public trough....

[rb336]

SHoP, who are, I think, lead architects for the Hudson block, did Barclay Center in Brooklyn and the East River Esplanade. They have interesting ideas, and history with walkable mixed use. could be good

[Gistok]

SHoP, who are, I think, lead architects for the Hudson block, did Barclay Center in Brooklyn and the East River Esplanade. They have interesting ideas, and history with walkable mixed use. could be good

But that's only based on the marching orders from their client....

[animatedmartian]

Agreed... we already knew this was happening.... But what will be interesting will be when other developers come forward and offer to buy those 2 buildings and redevelop them as part of a greater Arena District.

The only problem is whether those other developers will step up in time.

Though in that case, could it come down to a delay in the construction of the arena if it meant hashing out plans for at least Park Avenue? Really, construction of the arena is the only thing prompting an action to be taken on either Hotel.

[401don]

That quote from Ilitch that says there`s really not much use for it other than residential or a hotel is hilarious. I men, no shit, that`s why you supposedly just cleared 40 blocks!

[mikeg19]

It appears that the whole "100 foot barrier" for safety is not an NHL rule or policy, but a guideline. They don't have to adhear to that if they don't want to.

If they knock the buildings down, they are going to have a PR shitstorm on their hands, and for the first time in, well maybe history, it sounds like City Council isn't going to sit on their hands. I love hockey and wanna see the district developed as much as the next person, but if they don't come out and say "yes, were going to demolish" or "yes, we are redeveloping the buildings", then I don;t support Council approving the rezoning request. They need to include the buildings in the development. End of story.

[stinkytofu]

This would be absolute BS if this goes through and I'd turn in my Wings and Tigers card.

What can the average Joe do to voice your concerns? I'm not a city resident, but do work in the city.

[123456789]

This would be absolute BS if this goes through and I'd turn in my Wings and Tigers card.

What can the average Joe do to voice your concerns? I'm not a city resident, but do work in the city.

If you're renouncing your fandom of a hockey team based on a couple of old abandon crack houses coming down then you probably weren't much of a fan anyway.

These buildings aren't impressive and have seemingly no historical relevance. There really is no reason to save these if it isn't financially beneficial.

[Bham1982]

Let's think. A building formerly used as a hotel, in an area with a high demand for residential projects.

There's your problem right there. Your assumptions are wrong.

There may not be a major city on earth with less demand for residential projects. There probably hasn't been a non-subsidized unit of housing built anywhere around downtown in 50 years.

[Gistok]

There's your problem right there. Your assumptions are wrong.

There may not be a major city on earth with less demand for residential projects. There probably hasn't been a non-subsidized unit of housing built anywhere around downtown in 50 years.

Let me see how easy it is to show that you don't know what you are talking about...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/12/re...anted=all&_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3288459.html

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...lan-loft-style

http://archive.freep.com/article/201...dtown-Corktown

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...idential-space

http://www.multihousingnews.com/citi...004094339.html

http://wdet.org/shows/craig-fahle-sh...or-the-auburn/

Sue Mosey, Midtown Detroit, Inc. president, believes that the timing couldn’t be better to add new residential product to the district. “We are at 95 percent occupancy across the entire Midtown neighborhood and don’t see demand letting up any time soon,” said Mosey. “

[eliboyer]

There's your problem right there. Your assumptions are wrong.

There may not be a major city on earth with less demand for residential projects. There probably hasn't been a non-subsidized unit of housing built anywhere around downtown in 50 years.

Best of luck living in 2008 while the rest of us are finishing off 2014. Every single piece of data I've seen contradicts your comment on demand. And please don't pretend that developers don't secure subsidies in other "major cities on earth". Stop living in a vacuum, open your eyes.

[Bham1982]

Let me see how easy it is to show that you don't know what you are talking about...

Nothing you posted contradicted anything I wrote. You just posted a bunch of rah-rah articles that have nothing to do with my comment.

I probably shouldn't be, but I am still constantly amazed that people argue there is massive demand for downtown residential, yet they can't point to a single unit of housing built absent subsidies. Amazing how otherwise intelligent people can suppress basic logic.

If downtown is such a gold mine for residential development, then step right up, developers! Build 50 floor towers to your heart's contentm and turn Detroit into Hong Kong! No one is stopping you, in fact, we'll pay you tens of millions to fill this supposed "massive demand". Very odd that no developer has yet taken the plunge. They must be all idiots who dislike making money, unlike the brilliant armchair developers at DYes.

[Bham1982]

Best of luck living in 2008 while the rest of us are finishing off 2014. Every single piece of data I've seen contradicts your comment on demand. And please don't pretend that developers don't secure subsidies in other "major cities on earth". Stop living in a vacuum, open your eyes.

Property values were higher in 2008 than in 2014, so no.

And please point us to this secret "piece of data" indicating that downtown Detroit isn't basically the least desirable big city downtown anywhere on the planet. What major metro area has less demand?

And no, I don't know of any successful cities anywhere on earth where market rate residential development requires taxpayer subsidies. In fact, successful cities force developers to pay impact fees, to provide mandatory subsidized housing, and to endure a gauntlet of regulatory approvals.

The DYes claim is that "all developers are idiots", because no developer has actually taken the plunge absent subsidies, and even with generous subsidies, nothing has really been built of any major size. That is not a reasonable, straight-faced claim.

[MSUguy]

There's your problem right there. Your assumptions are wrong.

There may not be a major city on earth with less demand for residential projects. There probably hasn't been a non-subsidized unit of housing built anywhere around downtown in 50 years.

Well fuck, I guess no one wants to be in Birmingham if they're having to subsidize housing there too. Moreover the tax credits that these projects get have nothing to do with level of demand, none that makes people sign a lease. The occupancy rate and rising rental rates speak exactly to the opposite of your claims.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ion-state-loan

[Gistok]

Cut the crap Bham1982... subsidies [[Historic Tax Credits or otherwise) are part of doing business... that's NOT the same thing as demand. Nice try at comparing Detroit to super high density landless Hong Kong.... does somehow using that silly comparison make your argument any less absurd? Doubtful....

[canuck]

There's your problem right there. Your assumptions are wrong.

There may not be a major city on earth with less demand for residential projects. There probably hasn't been a non-subsidized unit of housing built anywhere around downtown in 50 years.

Depends what you imply by subsidized. The whole urban/suburban riddle we discuss on these threads is rife with entitlements on all sides of the many divides. Where some see advancement and comfort, some see an awful waste of space and resources that could instead be redistributed on higher density development in South East Michigan. The many miles of roads needed to service sprawliness are less scary to you than the rehab of a handsome building downtown?

I think it is time to reverse the trend and indeed repopulate downtown in imaginative ways, not repeat the cycle of waste to appease developers' appetites. The social contract that it implies is that historical structures must be maintained and rehabilitated for large projects like the Illitches'. Too many buildings have disappeared because developers are lazy and unimaginative. Detroit's downtown needs to be protected because it has a collection of very important structures that are the envy of many cities worldwide. This should be obvious but somehow isnt to a lot of folks. Are you a Detroiter or a Detractor?