Water Shut-off Protest Marches Through Downtown Detroit [Pics]

[Scottathew]

Yes, DWSD is right to attempt a better collection rate. But I think the consequences of their actions are great enough that they are obligated to do so with a measure of humanity. Even something so simple as starting with the worst offenders, and working sequentially to those who owe the least.

I don't understand what you want them to do. Ask more nicely? A singing telegram? Perhaps a rhyming poem?

Dear Cust.,
Our old pipes are filled with rust,
Repairing them is a must,
For we fear they may bust,
If with water you would like to stay,
Then to us you must pay,
We hope you have a good day,

- DWSD

Would that make the situation better? Would it have more humanity? Perhaps. But I don't think it would cause a lot of people to get their checkbooks out.

[Cliffy]

Again the problem is that it is quite common for people in Detroit to not pay water bills, taxes, speeding tickets, drive without insurance, act civilized on Belle Isle.... Now that the civilized world is finally hitting Detroit, everyone is offended they don't get free water and tax free living anymore. Yeah, its going to hurt but eventually they will learn that water is more valuable than their Air Jordans and iPhones.

[Smirnoff]

Hey wait a minute.....aren't we also entitled to "free beer"

[Wesley Mouch]

"Pay up or you don't get water" skims over the consequences of a shutoff: that in our country and city a residence is legally uninhabitable without running water. Were the house due for inspection, it would not receive a certificate of occupancy. It is illegal in our fair city to rent someone a residence without hot and cold running water.

Because functioning indoor plumbing is so fundamental to our idea of what makes a residence habitable, shutting it off can start a cascade of trouble. Think of all the situations where you are subject to severe consequences for living in a technically uninhabitable structure, or failing to maintain the same: is it a condition of your mortgage? A loophole your insurance company could use to deny a claim? Relevant to your custody battle? Grounds for CPS to intervenes ?

Yes, DWSD is right to attempt a better collection rate. But I think the consequences of their actions are great enough that they are obligated to do so with a measure of humanity. Even something so simple as starting with the worst offenders, and working sequentially to those who owe the least.

gvidas... you are completely right here. However in addition to considering the immediate consequence, you also have to consider the impact of not shutting off water.

If you don't shut off water, you end up with a decay in civic services. End the result, is today's Detroit. Where every decision is based upon whether there might be a negative impact on some people -- to the detriment of the community at large.

So how do we balance these things? How do we have a functioning water department that has enough money to operate properly, and pay its employees? And at the same time, make sure we have water to everyone who needs it?

Big question.

But the answer isn't stopping shutoffs. Its much more complex.

If you really seek an answer, protests against reasonable water board actions doesn't help. It is actually avoiding the real issue.

[preserve]

All of these programs that are set up to help those who are in financial difficulty, have they always been there? Did the DWS dept. reach out before all the publicity. I have only had one real problem in 50 years with the water department and found them to be very difficult to work with,
and this wasn't over an unpaid usage bill, but for repairs that never took place. Mismanagement from the get go and people taking advantage. I doubt if all the cut offs are for the poor.

[Jimaz]

From today's front page: More than 1,000 from across nation rally against Detroit water shutoffs

...“We think we’ve done our job helping to prevent water shutoffs today,” said the Rev. Denise Griebler, with the United Church of Christ in Richmond, Mich. “We’ll keep doing this until this policy changes. ... Count on it, we’ll be back.”...

Meanwhile, in downtown Detroit, about 1,000 shouting, banner-carrying and flag-waving marchers shouted slogans blaming Wall Street banks and predatory mortgage lenders for causing the poverty that, they say, has left thousands of Detroiters facing water shutoffs....

The water shutoffs are “potentially a real health emergency,” said Dr. Paul von Oeyen, 64, of Bloomfield Hills, an obstetrician-gynecologist at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak.

“People wake up, their water is suddenly off, and they can’t use their toilets, so what are they going to do?” von Oeyen said. “The result in Third World nations can be the spread of deadly cholera, and we shouldn’t have to be risking that here.”

I can imagine a few interesting guerrilla tactics that could emerge here.

[gpwforever]

Here we go again Detroit making national news for all the wrong reasons. Go to school, get a job, stop blaming everyone else for all your self created problems and pay your damn bills.

Why not have the water department install a public yard hydrant on every bock then the residents can walk there with buckets or empty milk jugs and get all the free water they need. This is how its done in other 3rd world country's.

[Meddle]

Don't want your water shut off?

PAY Yer FRIGGIN' Bill!!

[Meddle]

Want free water?

Go down to the river and get it. All you want. 'Course you gotta buy the buckets. And probably pay for parking somewhere. And then there's the gas or other transportation costs to get there and back.

Then you have buckets with water plus who knows what that you probably don't want to drink or bathe in or cook with.

[mwilbert]

Also, I question the 2000+ protesters number. The 11am news said between 100-200 people... and then out of the blue another 2000 show up?! I don't buy it for a second. Look closely at the pics and TV reports and you'll see quite a bit of concrete in between the people. 2000+ bodies in a mass protest [[even a peaceful march) equals not much concrete visible. But I guess "Thousands came out to protest..." makes for better news instead of "100-200 people marched..."

I don't know how many people were there, but if you look at the first picture in this thread, there are far more than 200 people in that picture.

[Jimaz]

How many protesters were present doesn't matter.

What matters is how the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power intend to deal with their own nascent cholera symptoms.

[Zacha341]

Nah, more like 65% white from my estimation... Perhaps some members of BAMN! Jokes aside I am certain many people outside of Detroit feel strongly about this situation.

Interesting: Detroit is about 80-85% black but a quick glance at the pics looks like the protesters were about 80-85% white.

[Zacha341]

I think the human rights issue has become twisted into a responsibility issue here, but not just from the users of the utility. Don't pay most of your bills and consequences are swift: cable will go off, car will vanish eventually, heat goes off, etc. Yet the water company did NOTHING for years. And we now have the days we have: PAY DAY NOW!

I agree, the 'rights' emphasis of the protest is sending the wrong message to some. Some of the same folks who have their priorities distorted may use the 'rights' focus as justification to continue in that.

HOWEVER, the water department ALSO needs to get it's priorities together. How do you run a public utility at such a loss, allow arrearages such as this? No name on the bills, confusion as to who pays in the rent context, variations of bills that in some case question actual use, etc.

Some of those protest placards should heave read "REFORM DWSD BILLING!". The 'rights' issue while emotive, and therefore a position many feel passionate about [[which is why the protestors blend is so diverse) does not full address to the problems in paying and billing.

If this is not carefully resolved with a long term sustainable solution we're looking at another run of uninhabitable, abandoned property and ruin here in the Detroit. Winter is coming.

I heard that people are leaving their homes because they didn't pay their water bill. Where do they think they will go that won't require them to pay for water? They say water is a human right...well, so is shelter, heat, food, the basics of life to stay alive. Maybe the gas company is next on the list of companies that people will picket, demanding free service because heat is a human right. Or maybe Consumers Energy, because after all, electricity should be a human right, too.

When you don't pay your bills, the creditors come calling. Don't pay for your mortgage, the bank forecloses; don't pay for your car, it gets repossessed. Because of the "lax" enforcement by the City of Detroit, many people have perpetuated this problem for years, but the money is still owed. It's all about complacency, irresponsibility, and priorities.

[Zacha341]

Yes. A very complicated issue. And one that did not come up over night.... emphasis on the 'rights' aspect pulls alot of people of various agendas, relative to protest[[s).

I typically have a left of center perspective, but if I were attending Netroots Nation [[which I actually considered since its in Detroit) I would NOT be marching in this protest. Its a knee-jerk reaction to a complicated issue.

[Zacha341]

Yep. Stand by for this response on other fronts as time goes along. DWSD was dumb for decades. Some grew lazy in considering this a 'serious' bill worthy of pay. After all the toilet still flushed, the water ran with good pressure and was still treated - no one fell out dead from cholera. That was just the way of it.

Bang! DWSD suddenly called it all in. Crisis oriented thinking and tactics. And regarding some aspects of the protest, yes cutting off your nose despite your face can be a problem......

Part of DWSD is that they put off this problem until it was urgent for them to do so. They could have started the process many years ago and done it with more sensitivity, but ya know...

I also don't particularly agree with the protesters either, but I at least understand that some people have been hit hard with what essentially is a DWSD screw up. I just heard on Fox 2 that they've been blocking the entrance to a contractor's building to prevent shut offs, but it's also preventing them from going back out to turn water back on for those who have paid. Not very smart protesting.

[Zacha341]

BINGO. This is why a percentage of folks became accustom to not paying. BUT, DWSD WAS COMPLICIT IN THIS AS THEY DID NOTHING... until now! We don't see Comcast commiting mass shutoffs after months or 'years' of unpaid services, do we? Nope. They've never allowed no payment for services. No pay over a month, no cable.

I pay for the things that I need and want, in that order.

If DWSD isn't allowed to shut off freeloaders, then there is no reason to pay.

[Wesley Mouch]

BINGO. This is why a percentage of folks became accustom to not paying. BUT, DWSD WAS COMPLICIT IN THIS AS THEY DID NOTHING... until now! We don't see Comcast do mass shutoffs for months or 'years' of unpaid services. Nope. They've never allowed it. No pay over a month, no cable.

DWSD just did what was askied of them.

Comcast? They operate like a business.

DWDS? Worried about Detroit Residency. Making political patronage jobs. Run by the inmate in between Horseshoeing work.

If we want an efficient operation, let's demand that -- and stop sweating union-created work rules, residency, friends & family hiring.

Until now, we've preferred that later.

[Zacha341]

Distortions of numbers is common for that kind of thing. It's 20 or 2,000 depending on the agenda desired...

"Thousands came out to protest..." makes for better news instead of "100-200 people marched..."

[Zacha341]

And, or justified in not paying the bill in the first place!

But it makes the protesters feel good.

[Zacha341]

Yes, the broader out-working of houses/ property without water is not going to be good time for Detroit and its citizens.

Because functioning indoor plumbing is so fundamental to our idea of what makes a residence habitable, shutting it off can start a cascade of trouble. Think of all the situations where you are subject to severe consequences for living in a technically uninhabitable structure, or failing to maintain the same: is it a condition of your mortgage? A loophole your insurance company could use to deny a claim? Relevant to your custody battle? Grounds for CPS to intervene?

[Wesley Mouch]

Yes, the broader out-working of houses/ property without water is not going to be good time for Detroit and its citizens.

Zacha.... allow me to suggest to you that you don't have to worry about this.

If DWSD starts tightening up on shutoffs, you will see a shift in priorities for, let's say, 95% of the cases. So you're really dealing with only 5% who truly can't realign their priorities.

So what do we do? Because it truly isn't acceptable to deprive the 5% of water.... you might ask?

Answer: Do Something Different.

What is that? All kinds of ways. Free water at police stations. Let the CoD Human Rights Department drive them jugs of water [[rather than sit around seeking racism under every rock). Let the Canadians step in. Take the cash from the 95% who pay their water bill instead of cable bill and take half that and have DWSD step in and help those who truly are in need. There are solutions to the small # of cases.

Just giving something away doesn't help. And we can see from our history that it pretty much creates the bad Detroit we've got a chance to save here.

Bless you Kevin.

[Zacha341]

Yep. And now "later" is now...

DWSD just did what was askied of them.

Comcast? They operate like a business.

DWDS? Worried about Detroit Residency. Making political patronage jobs. Run by the inmate in between Horseshoeing work.

If we want an efficient operation, let's demand that -- and stop sweating union-created work rules, residency, friends & family hiring.

Until now, we've preferred that later.

[cla1945]

There is a lot of rhetoric here about DWDS being slow in collecting, lax enforcement, not giving residents enough time to pay these huge water bills that have accrued over many years of non-payment; that DWDS should take "some" responsibility for what is happening today, and I'm sure some of it is true. Landlords who rented out property and included water in the rent, then didn't pay or let the renter know that bills were overdue are at fault 100%. DWDS should go after them with a vengence and not shut off the water to the residence.

But, I know that the majority of people who have not been paying just didn't pay because there was no pressure from the department to pay. Getting bills in the mail each month with a mounting charge and late fees, with big red letters on it stating 'OVERDUE' just didn't do the job. That still isn't a good reason not to pay.

Income tax day comes each year and some have to pay the government. If you don't pay, eventually they will catch up with you and sock it to you big time...everyone knows that. This shouldn't be any big surprise to any resident of Detroit who didn't pay their bills, for whatever reason, you know you have to pay sooner or later. In this case, it's much later, but you still owe the money. There is no free ride anywhere.

Years ago [[2009), JoAnn Watson was paying $68 a year property taxes. She knew her taxes were much much higher than that but as long as the City didn't catch it, she felt she could get away with it. She tried some lame excuse about a tornado hitting her home but couldn't remember what year it happened and tried to justify herself in the eyes of the public. "... I pay my bills and whatever I was billed, I paid." was her statement. Well, this is the same as the residents who have past due water bills and now it's time to pay the piper.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

http://www.freep.com/article/2014071...shutoff-crisis

If its a carrot and stick approach, clearly some folks need the stick.

"Earlier this week, a shutoff crew visited a street of nicely maintained brick colonials in northwest Detroit, on the edge of Detroit’s Grandmont neighborhood. Out of some 76 houses on Rutland Street, south of Schoolcraft, water was shut off for 12 households, with delinquencies ranging from $248 to more than $1,000.
When the shutoff crew showed up on his front lawn, steelworker Eric Williams emerged from his house, angry and shocked to learn that he was about to lose his water. Williams pointed to a slew of water bills, which include fine print in red alerting customers to possible shutoff if bills are past due, and said the household never received a distinct shutoff notice.
“We owe $300. I’ve got that right now. I can pay that now,” said Williams. “$300? That’s not enough to shut off my water. This is water. You don’t do nothing without water.”
Water department spokeswoman Garner, who was at the site because she was accompanying media, explained that city records showed a shutoff notice was sent to the house.
“You’re not struggling. You just got off work. You said you could pay it right now,” Garner told Williams. And she said the water department is trying to stress to homeowners that unpaid bills can’t languish indefinitely, as once was the case. Williams ended up paying the bill online, and his water was later restored."

[Cliffy]

Well going to predict that Eric Williams will start paying now instead of waiting for the shutoff notice before he decides to pay. Seriously, what a bum.