Ruh Oh! Grosse Pointe may have built new blockade on Detroit Property!

[SyGolden48236]

Sumas didn't title it, Casual did. 2 threads were merged.

Thank you for the clarification. Sumas' post is the first one on this thread so I naturally thought that he/she started the thread.

[aoife]

Ummm....when I think of diversity, I think of an area that has a lot different cultures mixed together living next to eachother. Not areas defined by a mass majority of one race or the other. I'm struggling to see how either GPP or eastside of Detroit is more diverse than the other???

I think he meant there is a larger variety of people in the Grosse Pointes than on the east side of Detroit. Both are a large percent of one group, but in Grosse Pointe the non-majority is made of of people from all over, rather than just one or two groups. Within a few blocks of my house I know people from the Philippines, India, Mexico, Korea and Eastern Europe. There are African American families, a Chinese American family and a family from the Middle East. And that is pretty representative of most areas in the Pointes- a handful of families from different cultures/backgrounds scattered throughout the neighborhoods. So even though it may not seem like so much on paper, because is is still very white, it is, technically more diverse in the true sense of the word.

[TKshreve]

Hey I mind every day. Kercheval and Vernor were great access to downtown and the eastside. I still miss access to both but snarl when I have to detour to Mack or Jefferson. That plant is a bigger version of the GPP version of the Berlin wall. The city was desperate for tax dollars. The repercussions of that plant exist to this day.

Not sure if I should cry or cringe on that one. JNAP is the only [[relevant) existing car assembly plant left inside the CoD. Does that not say anything to you? The repercussions?!?! The repercussions you're crying about are the likes of jobs and sustainability in this area. Take away the plant.... well, go ahead and take away the remaining neighborhood below Jefferson towards the lake. Everything else is a urban prairie. Oh, are those the repercussions you speak of? Did the plant shoot it's cuffs and push those people out? And raze those homes. Please. And the saddest item of all, you moved into GP for the schools, and once done you moved out and now wag your $@%!^#% finger at the same city that provided a terrific education for your children. SMFH. Would it be easier for you and your cart if GP just put up spotlights and boiling oil? That way you wouldn't have to exaggerate and hee-haw all the time about closed roads and pseudo racism.

The whole debate is rather amusing to me..... I "commute" from Kercheval in the park [[literally) to JNAP 4 times a week. My entrance to the plant lies directly across Kercheval. I could pitch a bitch that my ride is now a teency bit longer and a smidge bit less straight. But I don't. I think the added benefit of the closing is well worth the fuss. And Steve Neavling is simply sniveling.

I cannot for the life of me get a certain image out of my head. I see..... I see a hundred or so Walking Dead zombies on the "less-richyville" side of those barns. Just scraping against the sides of them. Unable to pass. With every determination in the world to get through. But they shall not pass. Because they know no better. They could walk around. They could easily circumnavigate the simple structure...... but they cannot. Striving for something I'll never understand.

[bailey]

“I believe Detroit surveyed this for us and construction occurred on our side of the border based on their surveying marks,” [GPP City Councilman] Grano said. “The city administration is looking into this matter further, and I am sure the city will do whatever is legally called for if it was incorrect in that assessment.”

...back up the outrage bus.

[motz]

...back up the outrage bus.

I believe we've also had politicians claim things like this for, oh, I don't know, the entire history of time. If they had legitimately had someone from the City survey this, he'd have a name, a department, a report, he'd have SOMETHING besides "I think maybe they might've approved our Home Depot shed".

[RO_Resident]

I'm glad some folks here know that a survey done by a licensed professional is FACT to where lines are drawn. The GIS data and tax records that motorcitymuckraker used are not accurate sources of lot boundaries. They are typical plat sizes drawn out sometimes automatically or maybe by an intern. You'll find all sorts of issues when you pull that GIS data into a program or use a web app. That's why there's fine print on those websites.

The more I look into this, Motor City Muckraker really needs a kick in the pants. Or, in honor of Weird Al's releases this week, they really "Dare to be Stupid".

First, they make a bid deal about going to Detroit's GIS web page to get the 'official' boundary. Of course, they ignore the caveats on that exact page.

The very first layer is "City of Detroit Boundaries."


So, I used the shapefile to check what they have on their article.
Red = City of Detroit Boundaries shapefile
Blue = Michigan Geographic Framework version 13 boundary
[[note, the Detroit file is missing a prg file, so some accuracy is lost)
[[note 2, both of these boundaries are 'good enough for illustrative purposes, not survey grade.'


WTF, this boundary looks nothing like the zigzags MCM has in their article. I have no idea where they got their border file.

[TKshreve]

WTF, this boundary looks nothing like the zigzags MCM has in their article. I have no idea where they got their border file.

I'm going with thin air.

[RickBeall]

If there was less crime in Detroit than in the Pointes, do you think the Points would keep trying to erect barriers between themselves and Detroit?

You will probably say "No". Therefore, this has nothing to do with racism, and has everything to do with crime.

And then you can have rational discussions concerning that you don't like this particular solution because you find it inconvenient, and that you doubt its efficacy.

[RickBeall]

Originally Posted by sumas

By the way, the wall is legally on GPP property, knew that when this thread started. Oops forgot to mention we are historians and have deeds and documents to provide authentication. Let the powers that be, duke that shit out.






Sumas, if you are a fact based, reasoning person, it is odd that you didn't steer the conversation down a truer path at the get go, rather than simply fan the flames as you did.

[bailey]

I believe we've also had politicians claim things like this for, oh, I don't know, the entire history of time. If they had legitimately had someone from the City survey this, he'd have a name, a department, a report, he'd have SOMETHING besides "I think maybe they might've approved our Home Depot shed".

Perhaps. But as of today, Muckraker is looking like the hack he's accused of being. He's taken some wild conjecture based on unreliable information and ran it as if it were factual.

I look forward to his apology and retraction. *snort.

[motz]

Perhaps. But as of today, Muckraker is looking like the hack he's accused of being. He's taken some wild conjecture based on unreliable information and ran it as if it were factual.

I look forward to his apology and retraction. *snort.

I look forward to an actual outcome to the investigation, to be honest. Between RO_Resident's graphic and MCM's, it's a pretty close call. GPP isn't exactly being transparent about what they based their building off of, being that the only thing we've heard is a commissioner saying "Hey, we think maybe they might have sort of approved of us building Home Depot shed. Some guy said it was cool, not sure who and I don't have the paperwork, but I'm pretty sure it's alright I guess".

Can we instead talk about how it looks like GPP bought the Yates' Cider Mill stand from Great Lakes Crossing and moved it to the middle of the street? I'm more upset that they didn't invest more into this project. Are they going to buy the playscape from Oakland Mall and install that next??

[sumas]

Thank you Pam for your defense. I keep trying for people to understand Detroit as it is and once was and can be. Obviously I am failing at that.

[wolverine]

The more I look into this, Motor City Muckraker really needs a kick in the pants. Or, in honor of Weird Al's releases this week, they really "Dare to be Stupid".

First, they make a bid deal about going to Detroit's GIS web page to get the 'official' boundary. Of course, they ignore the caveats on that exact page.

The very first layer is "City of Detroit Boundaries."


So, I used the shapefile to check what they have on their article.
Red = City of Detroit Boundaries shapefile
Blue = Michigan Geographic Framework version 13 boundary
[[note, the Detroit file is missing a prg file, so some accuracy is lost)
[[note 2, both of these boundaries are 'good enough for illustrative purposes, not survey grade.'


WTF, this boundary looks nothing like the zigzags MCM has in their article. I have no idea where they got their border file.

Exactly. The problem is people think maps on city and state websites are some official source of information because they are at a .gov domain. Again, that's why the lawyers add the fine print on these web map viewers.

[Gpwrangler]

Maybe they're just trying to breathe some life back into an otherwise dieing end of their 'burg.

Dying? Hardly lol

[sumas]

What's even sadder is the very same person and hubby rented an apartment in GP so they could take advantage of the extra school millage GPers voted in for themselves, and send their kids to GP schools. Now that said kids have graduated, screw you racist guys.

A flat to be exact and it is a given that taxes are factored into rent pricing so we paid our way. Took care of neighbors, big fun doing eyedrops for seniors, laundry and the home hospice for a lady two blocks over. No pay buddy. We simply liked people. Our big payback, when our neighbor Norm died [[93) and family swarmed who were not around ever, they gave us a horse head bust but not until they determined it had no value. Try sleep[ng on a floor holding the hand of a dieing woman on a couch.

At personal expense we landscaped and maintained our "rental" . We had another neighbor who is now 94 who begged us to move in to her rental property.

You are so right, Detroiters by choice must be scum.

We left GPP when our kids graduated, they are both doing well, affluent even, not that you give a shit, to care for my aging mother. Seven years of my life just gone. Home hospice near the end. That community was EEV, the devil Detroit again, great and caring neighbors there too.

I like Detroit just fine and no clue why you are so bitter..

[Novine]

Just goes to show that the Honky doesn't know much about school funding. Rental properties are non-homestead properties, which means that they pay much more towards the local district than GP homeowners.

[Honky Tonk]

Just goes to show that the Honky doesn't know much about school funding. Rental properties are non-homestead properties, which means that they pay much more towards the local district than GP homeowners.

Just how does renting a flat pay more in school milage then owning a home, No-Vine? Please, enlighten me in tax structures.

[Honky Tonk]

Your reply has nothing to do with the fact you rented a flat so your kids could get a better education on the cheap.

[Hermod]

Just how does renting a flat pay more in school milage then owning a home, No-Vine? Please, enlighten me in tax structures.

If I am a landlord owning a four unit building, I will take my annual real estate taxes [[non-homesteaded), divide it by four to allocate to the four apartments, then divide those numbers by twelve to include in the monthly rent.

[Goose]

If I am a landlord owning a four unit building, I will take my annual real estate taxes [[non-homesteaded), divide it by four to allocate to the four apartments, then divide those numbers by twelve to include in the monthly rent.

really? so lets say the rents in the area are $500 a month and your division ends up being
$700.... you rent it at $500 and pay the taxes for a loss...... in a profitable, high demand area, rents typically exceed expenses.. but there are plenty of examples, particularly with the real estate bust of 06/07, where the PITI payment exceeds what you can get for rent....

after 2006 there were tons of properties where people were underwater and couldn't sell so they just rented it out for what they could and tried to ride out the economy....

[Bham1982]

Renters don't pay property taxes. Renters pay whatever the landlord can get. Then the landlord pays whatever he's charged.

[sumas]

Just goes to show that the Honky doesn't know much about school funding. Rental properties are non-homestead properties, which means that they pay much more towards the local district than GP homeowners.

Interesting observation, never thought about that. I do know we paid $1,000 dollars a month and improved the value of the property. Our landlord loved us and in fact when the furnace croaked and she couldn't fix it right away she wanted us to come stay with her in her large GPP home. The weather was frigid and we sent the kids to my Mom and toughed it out with the fireplace.

I rather resent the carpetbagger implication, we paid our way.

[sumas]

I liked living in GPP, don't like that wall. Crime happens everywhere and not the fault of those pesky african americans.

I love my community [[detroit) we work hard to maintain our historic homes and trust me old homes are money pits. As to diversity, this area was not deed restricted so it was primarily african american home owners. Now we have a major influx of all kinds of people. Chinese, Japanese, suburban white kids, German and English youth. It's truly an interesting community.

[Bham1982]

I liked living in GPP, don't like that wall. Crime happens everywhere and not the fault of those pesky african americans.

If just fabricating things makes you feel better, just go with it, I guess.

But no, "crime happens everywhere" is quite obviously false. There are absolutely dramatic differences based on location, which is the entire reason why the Pointes are very desirable and one block away is a complete wasteland, where land is essentially worthless.

[iheartthed]

If just fabricating things makes you feel better, just go with it, I guess.

But no, "crime happens everywhere" is quite obviously false. There are absolutely dramatic differences based on location, which is the entire reason why the Pointes are very desirable and one block away is a complete wasteland, where land is essentially worthless.

I don't think you ever answered why East New York, Brooklyn is more expensive than Birmingham, Michigan. Is it because crime in Birmingham, Michigan is higher than a Brooklyn ghetto?