Ruh Oh! Grosse Pointe may have built new blockade on Detroit Property!

[Wesley Mouch]

Well said Wesley...and quite frankly I'll bet you WILL see more foot traffic from the Detroit side into GPP now that there is something a little more fruitful than just another Liquor store [[the old Arts party store). That is of course if they make it thru the barbed wire, motion sensors, claymores and armed guards at check point Charlie....The race baiting singing "WSO" gets real tired.

95% of Detroit Eastside residents will be happy that GPP is providing the amenities of the real world, and can tolerate a few racist fools amongst the crowd. The 5% screams bloody murder because every action taken in GPP is be definition a racist attack on Detroit. Sad the 1 in 20 can destroy the good feelings and positive direction of the 19 in 20.

[TKshreve]

95% of Detroit Eastside residents will be happy that GPP is providing the amenities of the real world, and can tolerate a few racist fools amongst the crowd. The 5% screams bloody murder because every action taken in GPP is be definition a racist attack on Detroit. Sad the 1 in 20 can destroy the good feelings and positive direction of the 19 in 20.

1 bad apple.........

[Hermod]

95% of Detroit Eastside residents will be happy that GPP is providing the amenities of the real world, and can tolerate a few racist fools amongst the crowd. The 5% screams bloody murder because every action taken in GPP is be definition a racist attack on Detroit. Sad the 1 in 20 can destroy the good feelings and positive direction of the 19 in 20.

On another board on which I post, there is a topic discussing some ongoing poutrage over Thomas the Tank Engine. It seems that some "socialogist" has noted that in the Thomas the Tank engine books and movies, the "good" engines produce white smoke while the "bad" engines produce black smoke. Apparently the good English reverend who wrote the original children's books post-WWII must have had a racist agenda according to the folks who are poutraged about it.

[motz]

And all this according to media stories which are always 100% accurate. Smh.

I'm sure GPP surveyed this before they built it.

Dear everyone, please stop arguing!! Gpwrangler has declared that he is "sure that GPP surveyed this before they built it". Definitely settles the debate. We can't argue that point anymore. Regardless of what we read in the papers, which sometimes Gpwrangler will cite as fact but not in this case!, they must have. Whew.

[Novine]

Looks like some people in the Pointes aren't so enamored of the trashy faux-barn effort.

[bailey]

Looks like some people in the Pointes aren't so enamored of the trashy faux-barn effort.

Have to agree with that comment there... when has GPP ever been thought of as a "progressive" area?

Also, muckraker needs to stop appending every GPP article with that bullshit about "still trying to recover from the police scandal" from the thing with the retarded black guy. Histrionics about it being a "scandal" aside... no one is "still" doing anything. The cops have been disciplined, and IIRC the "victim" is cooling his heals in jail after committing a series of home invasions in IV.

[Mackinaw]

Lately Bailey, it has lately. Not in the 60s, and only a bit in the 90s, but definitely now. And even going back decades it has had more diversity, particularly economics, than most everything above 8-mile.

Anyway, great to see this coverage and Park people getting angry at their leadership, which has really made them look bad.

[bailey]

Lately Bailey, it has lately. Not in the 60s, and only a bit in the 90s, but definitely now. And even going back decades it has had more diversity, particularly economics, than most everything above 8-mile.

Ok.. I get that. Maybe being nit pickey, but I think GPP is miles from "progressive" in the sense it's being used there. Maybe just semantics, but GPP to me is far more live-and- let-live "libertarian" than we're-all-in-this-together "progressive".

Anyway, great to see this coverage and Park people getting angry at their leadership, which has really made them look bad.

Sure, but the week before it was a "large crowd" of angry haus fraus upset that someone hasn't done something about hiding the smut in the metro times from kids at the library. Nowhere do passions run higher over insignificant issues than in small town council meetings.

[Mackinaw]

Nowhere do passions run higher over insignificant issues than in small town council meetings.

True, though an official was quoted as saying it was the biggest attendance they've seen. I think a notable bloc of GPP voters will or already have taken the view that they, if nothing else, don't appreciate the image created by the barns. A lot of them are probably smart enough to know that it's poor urban planning, too, no matter how many times the planners visited Stone Street lol.

[Gpwrangler]

Notable bloc? How many people showed up to this meeting? Did it reflect the majority view?

[bailey]

True, though an official was quoted as saying it was the biggest attendance they've seen. I think a notable bloc of GPP voters will or already have taken the view that they, if nothing else, don't appreciate the image...

unammed officials said that about attendance. of course, unnamed officials defending the project are dismissed out of hand by muckraker and everyone else... but unamed officials claiming it was a near riot of outraged progressive GPers standing arm in arm against this attempt at neo aparthied is taken as the gospel truth.

Look, i'm not saying some loud people showed up with an axe to grind against a percieved slight. But from the article itself, at least some of them were not grosse pointers but outraged Detroiters.

Its been years since I've been to a CC meeting in GPP. But GPPs population iis about 12k right? I would bet the room's audience capacity is something like 75. I would again..simply be hazarding wild assumptions here, but if 25 people showed up on an issue I would bet that would be the "most in recent memory".

muckraker is a tabloid.

[NoHeartAnthony]

If there was less crime in Detroit than in the Pointes, do you think the Points would keep trying to erect barriers between themselves and Detroit?

You will probably say "No". Therefore, this has nothing to do with racism, and has everything to do with crime.

And then you can have rational discussions concerning that you don't like this particular solution because you find it inconvenient, and that you doubt its efficacy.

The dog whistles are loud with this one.

[motz]

unammed officials said that about attendance. of course, unnamed officials defending the project are dismissed out of hand by muckraker and everyone else... but unamed officials claiming it was a near riot of outraged progressive GPers standing arm in arm against this attempt at neo aparthied is taken as the gospel truth.

Look, i'm not saying some loud people showed up with an axe to grind against a percieved slight. But from the article itself, at least some of them were not grosse pointers but outraged Detroiters.

Its been years since I've been to a CC meeting in GPP. But GPPs population iis about 12k right? I would bet the room's audience capacity is something like 75. I would again..simply be hazarding wild assumptions here, but if 25 people showed up on an issue I would bet that would be the "most in recent memory".

muckraker is a tabloid.

I wouldn't defend the use of "a large group showed up to the CC meeting", but the sentiment that there is a bloc of residents and voters in GPP who are embarrassed by the image this outwardly creates, as well as the outright ugliness of the entire project is something you could probably walk around the city and confirm. People strongly dislike when their elected officials and government make decisions that make their city look shifty, tacky or any other negative connotation. Examples: DWSD Water shutoffs, Troy's wonderful ex-mayor and noted crazy woman Janice Daniels, Warren's esteemed Jim Fouts who is protecting the city from other opinions also the KKK and Nazis, Robert "Hey do you want a pension" Ficano, L Brooks "Hey you urban scum get out of my county" Patterson, etc.

People dislike when their elected officials bring negative publicity to the city. Hell, they STRONGLY dislike it. So it's well within reason to believe there is a chunk of the population that dislikes GPP's decision to block a street with the Grosse Pointe Parke Crime Deterrent and Walkability Improving Home Depot Barn®.

[bailey]

I wouldn't defend the use of "a large group showed up to the CC meeting", but the sentiment that there is a bloc of residents and voters in GPP who are embarrassed by the image this outwardly creates, as well as the outright ugliness of the entire project is something you could probably walk around the city and confirm.

Well, as some one that lives in GP, the allegation to my experience is untrue. that "bloc" doesn't actually exist outside those that are perpetually outraged about all things GPP. the only consistently negative opinion I've come across in conversation is about the barns aesthetics NOT the closure of Kercheval.

And if anyone is boycotting anything.... they are doing it wrong, because Atwater and the rest are packed every night and there are more people on bikes around there than I've seen ever. [[which is really annoying when trying to get in and out there in a car. Someone is getting hit... soon)

People dislike when their elected officials bring negative publicity to the city.

some chatter on the interwebs and a 2 minute blurb on the 5 oclock news is hardly noticeable. And... as pointed out, it's just a rehash of the exact same "outrage" of 20 years ago when GPP closed off Korte. Which results in mild bemusement from most.

So it's well within reason to believe there is a chunk of the population that dislikes GPP's decision to block a street with the Grosse Pointe Parke Crime Deterrent and Walkability Improving Home Depot Barn®.

It's reasonable to believe that I suppose, if you had no other information, but it's not really reasonable to report it as proof of widespread disapproval based on the rantings of a handful at one city council meeting.[[especially since not one of them showed up during the 18 month planning and public meetings about it in the first place)

Are we to think it's reasonable to beleive all of GP wants all MetroTimes banned from public display because a few stay at home mothers demand it?

Further, the barns are not meant to be permanent structures. I don't even think they're attached to the slab. This has been repeated quite a bit. So if you're going to be snarky, it should be the "GPP Crime Deterrent and Walkablity Improving Traffic Circle and Multi Use Space."

[GPCharles]

I live in GPP and I think the sheds look awful.

Blocking Kercheval is a PIA, but I jut deal with it. No more morning drives down Kercheval on my way downtown.

As far as blocking access to Detroit residents, there aren't many left in the Mack to Jefferson/Alter to Connor quadrant. My guesstimate is 75%+vacant lots.

[jt1]

Well, as some one that lives in GP, the allegation to my experience is untrue. that "bloc" doesn't actually exist outside those that are perpetually outraged about all things GPP. the only consistently negative opinion I've come across in conversation is about the barns aesthetics NOT the closure of Kercheval.

And if anyone is boycotting anything.... they are doing it wrong, because Atwater and the rest are packed every night and there are more people on bikes around there than I've seen ever. [[which is really annoying when trying to get in and out there in a car. Someone is getting hit... soon)

some chatter on the interwebs and a 2 minute blurb on the 5 oclock news is hardly noticeable. And... as pointed out, it's just a rehash of the exact same "outrage" of 20 years ago when GPP closed off Korte. Which results in mild bemusement from most.



It's reasonable to believe that I suppose, if you had no other information, but it's not really reasonable to report it as proof of widespread disapproval based on the rantings of a handful at one city council meeting.[[especially since not one of them showed up during the 18 month planning and public meetings about it in the first place)

Are we to think it's reasonable to beleive all of GP wants all MetroTimes banned from public display because a few stay at home mothers demand it?

Further, the barns are not meant to be permanent structures. I don't even think they're attached to the slab. This has been repeated quite a bit. So if you're going to be snarky, it should be the "GPP Crime Deterrent and Walkablity Improving Traffic Circle and Multi Use Space."

Oh the irony. Someone uses the statements of a few to generalize GP residents thoughts about this and you are in full out protection mode. When a few people in Detroit show up and bitch at CC meetings it is just assumed [[and accepted) by many in SE Michigan that the vocal minority is speaking for all residents.

[Gpwrangler]

Well it took years to plan this and six months to build it. SOMEONE must have supported it. If it's so embarrassing there must be thousands of letters from pissed off GP residents who want that street [[and numerous other closed ones) opened back up.

[jt1]

I have a recommendation for all sides if there are hurt feelings:

1. GP keep this abortion of a shed. If it is a concern about crime, etc that is fine
2. Detroit acknowledge that crime needs to come down and start enforcing all laws. They can specifically focus on the GP residents that work downtown and drive through Mack and Jefferson like complete assholes [[then slow to the speed limit once they cross into GP). Hell, the ticket revenue alone could fund a dozen officers. Assign two to Jefferson and the other 10 elsewhere in the community.

[jt1]

Well it took years to plan this and six months to build it. SOMEONE must have supported it. If it's so embarrassing there must be thousands of letters from pissed off GP residents who want that street [[and numerous other closed ones) opened back up.

Years to plan this? If that's the case, I can't be upset at GP planners. I'd be too busy pitying them if this took years to plan.

[bailey]

Oh the irony. Someone uses the statements of a few to generalize GP residents thoughts about this and you are in full out protection mode. When a few people in Detroit show up and bitch at CC meetings it is just assumed [[and accepted) by many in SE Michigan that the vocal minority is speaking for all residents.

When those "few people in Detroit" don't have their wackjob/manufactured outrage opinions encouraged, endorsed or amplified by council members themselves ...maybe the assumptions of widespread support wouldn't be made?

I don't think any of GPP's council led a rousing chorus of onward christian soldiers after the protesters had their say.

[Mackinaw]

that "bloc" doesn't actually exist outside those that are perpetually outraged about all things GPP.

It is a defense mechanism to blame criticism for poor choices on over-sensitive outsiders who are out to get GPP. I, being from GP, know full well about people who overdramatize race issues and really treat GP unfairly and lose sight of the fact that it is not a bunch of rich, hateful people, but really a more open-minded suburb for metro Detroit. But this is different. This is targeted, I say warranted, criticism on multiple fronts. And you need to come to terms with the fact that it is from within, too, for a bunch of good reasons set forth ad nauseum on this thread.

It's where my family is from, it's where I used to be from and would like to return, and it makes all of us cringe. You know what all this is, if nothing else-- needless. A needless "urban revitalization" measure-- which doesn't accomplish much-- and a needless source of controversy which should have been seen from a mile away by anyone with a brain. It's on a border which for right and wrong has been the source of undue attention. This wasn't gonna slip under the radar; moreover, I think it disrupts resident's daily routine. There is so little good, and quite a bit bad, and a TON of pointlessness behind this fiasco. At the end of the day, it shows that the leaders are some combination of out-of-touch, out of their league [[when it comes to urban planning), and perhaps a bit antogonistics [[look at Heenan's quotes in the Freep). That is no way to govern.

GPwrangler, the someone who supported it was likely the elected officials and a handful of merchants who were promised that this would be good for business and probably thought it would be executed with more grace [[and less controversy, they surely hoped). It wasn't some grassroots effort. It was passed, surely, at a meeting with little attendance. People are naturally reactionary. As a native, I totally understand what's happening now. People sat on their hands, but now they are taking account of how disruptive it is. It's a genteel town that doesn't want the spotlight. And it's a town that hopes for better things for Detroit. A "notable" amount of people will now express one of several reasons to be opposed to this, and eventually, it will be removed.

[TKshreve]

Oh the irony. Someone uses the statements of a few to generalize GP residents thoughts about this and you are in full out protection mode. When a few people in Detroit show up and bitch at CC meetings it is just assumed [[and accepted) by many in SE Michigan that the vocal minority is speaking for all residents.

But were any grapes thrown? Even one? That's what seems to get the wheels of government turning.

[bailey]

It is a defense mechanism to blame criticism for poor choices on over-sensitive outsiders who are out to get GPP. I, being from GP, know full well about people who overdramatize race issues and really treat GP unfairly and lose sight of the fact that it is not a bunch of rich, hateful people, but really a more open-minded suburb for metro Detroit. But this is different. This is targeted, I say warranted, criticism on multiple fronts. And you need to come to terms with the fact that it is from within, too, for a bunch of good reasons set forth ad nauseum on this thread.

It's where my family is from, it's where I used to be from and would like to return, and it makes all of us cringe. You know what all this is, if nothing else-- needless. A needless "urban revitalization" measure-- which doesn't accomplish much-- and a needless source of controversy which should have been seen from a mile away by anyone with a brain. It's on a border which for right and wrong has been the source of undue attention. This wasn't gonna slip under the radar; moreover, I think it disrupts resident's daily routine. There is so little good, and quite a bit bad, and a TON of pointlessness behind this fiasco. At the end of the day, it shows that the leaders are some combination of out-of-touch, out of their league [[when it comes to urban planning), and perhaps a bit antogonistics [[look at Heenan's quotes in the Freep). That is no way to govern.

GPwrangler, the someone who supported it was likely the elected officials and a handful of merchants who were promised that this would be good for business and probably thought it would be executed with more grace [[and less controversy, they surely hoped). It wasn't some grassroots effort. It was passed, surely, at a meeting with little attendance. People are naturally reactionary. As a native, I totally understand what's happening now. People sat on their hands, but now they are taking account of how disruptive it is. It's a genteel town that doesn't want the spotlight. And it's a town that hopes for better things for Detroit. A "notable" amount of people will now express one of several reasons to be opposed to this, and eventually, it will be removed.

I think the issue remains that the overwhelming critique...again, from my anecdotal experience so FWIW... is that the installation of the whole thing was done hamfistedly and the barns are fugly. Other than "meh, I guess I can go around" type sentiments, I've not heard this massive groundswell of concern over the closing of Kercheval or heard anyone caring about what "message" is being sent. Being that I actually live here and being that this wave of discontent over Palmer Heenan's Great Wall of Racism is supposed to coursing through the place.... I would think that at some point I'd come across in casual conversation with ONE person in real life that thinks it should be removed because it's so offensive. After the GPW fireworks debacle, I'd bet in moments of candor, you'd get quite the opposite.

What I have heard is a lot of the same people saying the same things they did 25 years ago when Korte was closed. Newsflash...Korte is still closed.

I expect the barns will be replaced...because they ARE fugly. I'm less inclined to believe the roundabout is going anywhere.

[subsidized]

And if anyone is boycotting anything.... they are doing it wrong, because Atwater and the rest are packed every night and there are more people on bikes around there than I've seen ever. [[which is really annoying when trying to get in and out there in a car. Someone is getting hit... soon)

Either you just threatened to hit bicyclists or you just overlooked a negative aspect of this stupid project. If the closure of Kercheval and the "improved walkability" is going to make asshole drivers feel a need to run over pedestrians/bicyclists, then it's not really a good idea is it?

[jt1]

But were any grapes thrown? Even one? That's what seems to get the wheels of government turning.

The grapes were behind the counter right next to the Metro Times.