Ruh Oh! Grosse Pointe may have built new blockade on Detroit Property!

[Bham1982]

Don't tell us that you haven't quite grasped the fundamentals of the English language. When you say something is "the entire reason" then that means it is the single explanation, the sole cause... the ENTIRE REASON!

You're being entirely pedantic, and argumentative, for no purpose.

What is your point with this diatribe? Crime is definitely the reason that the East Side of Detroit is a wasteland. Maybe it's only 98.4% of the reason, but it's THE reason, and to argue about this is to be pedantic to the extreme.

[swingline]

I fail to see how creating a walkable area by closing off a street is a negative. Regardless if there is crime in the Detroit area or it's an empty wasteland.. either/or... whatever is there is not the "farmers market in your khackis and pink shirt" type they are trying to attract. The resturaunts in the area are not cheap, they are not soup kitchens... so black/white/green/purple/whatever on the other side of kercheval... its not the demographic they are marketing to...... do you think the average person considering a move into GPP would change their mind because of the farmers market or would they be more inclined to move it.. i say the latter... regardless, you have to be a moron to call this a "barrier"... its not the berlin wall with checkpoints... someone coming from the detroit side can park on the detroit side and walk in or take one of the may other access roads into GPP, stop trying to stir shit up....

Kercheval Avenue was walkable before the barn got plopped in the middle of the street. The street already has an excellent width to building height ratio, sidewalks of proper size, calmed traffic and curb parking. This small commercial street has an excellent blend of auto, transit, bike and pedestrian accessiblity. It is a placemaker's dream already. No improvement necessary. Unless, that is, the middle aged white city fathers and a moneyed businessman claiming a willingness to open some retail storefronts believe that the criminal inclination of nearby "non-residents" is the major problem requiring a solution. If you constrict traffic flow from the west [[don't need a Berlin Wall type barrier) you discourage those non-residents from hanging around.

It's kind or interesting that in the face of some of the bad PR generated by this planning decision that the GPP administration didn't trot out some of the various retail, street planning, placemaking and economic development experts that it consulted before proceeding with its blockade decision. Oh wait, . . . what's that? Ok, nevermind. What do experts know anyway? Besides, the Cotton family must know what they're doing because they've executed this kind of real estate development many times before, right? No? Well, whatever. Health insurance and urban planning are kind of similar, so no big deal.

[bailey]

It's kind or interesting that in the face of some of the bad PR generated by this planning decision that the GPP administration didn't trot out some of the various retail, street planning, placemaking and economic development experts that it consulted before proceeding with its blockade decision. Oh wait, . . . what's that? Ok, nevermind. What do experts know anyway? Besides, the Cotton family must know what they're doing because they've executed this kind of real estate development many times before, right? No? Well, whatever. Health insurance and urban planning are kind of similar, so no big deal.

Sort of exactly how Mortgage bankers, Truck dealers, and Pizza moguls have carte blanche to put in a trolley and redraw the CBD's maps without or in direct contravention of expert opinion. At least the traffic circle and some barns didn't need half a billion in tax payer subsidy and if it does fail, is easily remedied.

Those with the gold makes the rules.

[swingline]

Non-GPP residents debating and concerned with this have entirely too much time on their hands. I'm sure there are plenty of programs and initiatives in the City of Detroit that would allow you to use your time more wisely.

Wow, that stings. I hate myself when I stick my nose into something that's none of my fucking business. I really should go back to figuring out why Detroit residents just don't go get a job.

[iheartthed]

You're being entirely pedantic, and argumentative, for no purpose.

What is your point with this diatribe? Crime is definitely the reason that the East Side of Detroit is a wasteland. Maybe it's only 98.4% of the reason, but it's THE reason, and to argue about this is to be pedantic to the extreme.

No one is arguing against crime being the reason that the east side of Detroit is a wasteland*. You've already told us that it is "the entire reason." There is no room for nuance. You have spoken. Crime is the entire reason and nothing else affects it at all.

*You're the one who has characterized it as a wasteland.

[TKshreve]

Wow, that stings. I hate myself when I stick my nose into something that's none of my fucking business. I really should go back to figuring out why Detroit residents just don't go get a job.

And here I thought their job was to enlighten us of pseudo PR campaigns online and bitch about fabricated berlin-esque walls that block their path.

Fact is, the powers that be don't need to "trot out some of the various retail, street planning, placemaking and economic development experts that it consulted before proceeding with its blockade decision" because none of that is being demanded by those who live around AND take advantage this new budding district. Now the jaded, delusional baiters who show up when they feel their opinion matters ~ well, they should worry about the $.06 in gas they will expend going a 1/32 of a mile up Alter to get around the spot. Who knows, maybe this will spur job demand.

[cjd]

Now that I have found the GPPNo! website, can someone please pointe me to the new location for DetroitYes! ?

[motz]

Now that I have found the GPPNo! website, can someone please pointe me to the new location for DetroitYes! ?

It is now housed in Grosse Pointe Parke's Anti-Crime Home Deport® Pre-Fabricated Shed, which [[as affirmed by noted Crimeologist Bham1982) is entirely the reason why crime is low in GPP! Stop by and type up some anti-Detroit rhetoric and then backpeddle for a couple hours

[Goose]

It is now housed in Grosse Pointe Parke's Anti-Crime Home Deport® Pre-Fabricated Shed, which [[as affirmed by noted Crimeologist Bham1982) is entirely the reason why crime is low in GPP! Stop by and type up some anti-Detroit rhetoric and then backpeddle for a couple hours

are you implying that the closing of the street and placement of the "barns" won't keep crime out?

[Bham1982]

No one is arguing against crime being the reason that the east side of Detroit is a wasteland*. You've already told us that it is "the entire reason." There is no room for nuance. You have spoken. Crime is the entire reason and nothing else affects it at all.

*You're the one who has characterized it as a wasteland.

There is no such thing as "entire reason", technically [[and quite obviously). There is no neighborhood characteristic, that by itself, would not exclude even .000001% impact from some other input. But this isn't a dissertation-driven experiment, it's a narrative-based website.

Stop being pedantic and freakin admit that crime is the reason the East Side is a wasteland. Yes, even the entire reason, if you please. There is no other characteristic that really matters when crime and disorder are through the roof.

[motz]

are you implying that the closing of the street and placement of the "barns" won't keep crime out?

One time, I parked my car on one street, and then walked to another. There was an obstruction in the way, but I walked around it. If that wasn't an option, I would've parked my car somewhere else, maybe on the other side of the obstruction! I'm not sure if you've ever heard this saying, but "Where there is a will, there is a way". I know many people misinterpret that as "Where there is a Home Depot Crime Deterrent Barn®, there is no way", but that's historically inaccurate.

[Dan Wesson]

Ah sooo Grasshopper,

If you see the "Grosse Pointe Park's Anti-Crime Home Deport® Pre-Fabricated Shed" as a barrier then your chi is askew.

Bruce Lee, he say...

Be Like Water

“Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves…”

[cjd]

It is now housed in Grosse Pointe Parke's Anti-Crime Home Deport® Pre-Fabricated Shed, which [[as affirmed by noted Crimeologist Bham1982) is entirely the reason why crime is low in GPP! Stop by and type up some anti-Detroit rhetoric and then backpeddle for a couple hours

I'm not sure I can reconcile two strains of thought on this thread.

1. The barns are a racist plot to keep out the 'unwanteds' [[read African Americans) from Detroit.

2. GPP is stupid because everyone knows the barns can't stop crime.

So, the barns will not deter crime but they will deter decent African-American people from Detroit from coming in??

How are these barns so selective? Are they made of space-age nanoparticles?
And isn't there some way to reverse this selectivity- keeping out crime and not African-Americans- and then GPP and Detroit can sing kumbaya and enjoy a new farmer's market?

[Goose]

So, the barns will not deter crime but they will deter decent African-American people from Detroit from coming in??

my point exactly...

it's reverse prejudice... they must feel that black people [[unless they are criminals) cannot in anyway figure out a way around this barrier.... *but then again, GP whitey believes all black people are criminals, therefore, shouldn't they be able to penetrate the barrier???? my god, i think i've entered a logic vortex....


REASONING:

1. barrier put up according to ms S to keep blacks out

2. GP whitey claim its to deter crime, but Ms. S says criminals can get around the barrier

3. GP whitey believes all blacks are criminals

4. therefore, blacks can get around barrier

problem solved...

[iheartthed]

I'm not sure I can reconcile two strains of thought on this thread.

1. The barns are a racist plot to keep out the 'unwanteds' [[read African Americans) from Detroit.

2. GPP is stupid because everyone knows the barns can't stop crime.

So, the barns will not deter crime but they will deter decent African-American people from Detroit from coming in??

How are these barns so selective? Are they made of space-age nanoparticles?
And isn't there some way to reverse this selectivity- keeping out crime and not African-Americans- and then GPP and Detroit can sing kumbaya and enjoy a new farmer's market?

I suspect that you do understand the line of thought but just want to be a disagreeing asshole.

[Novine]

How about the third thread which is that the barn looks stupid and the concept behind is a joke. I'm willing to give the Pointers the benefit of the doubt and assume stupidity and cluelessness instead of racism.

[Wesley Mouch]

I don't know if the Home Depot Crime Deterrent Barn[[r) will work as advertised. GPP is however allowed to give it a try within their city limits.

It is not irrational to take streets and traffic action to control crime. They might be wrong. But they have the right to try.

And they may be racist whitey, or not. But this is in their minds. And we shoudn't try to control their minds. Its not our right to do so.

There may be a 'human right' to shelter, but I haven't yet heard of the human right to compel GPP to act like we think.

And they may be stupid. But that is allowed too. Sometimes being stupid helps you figure out smart.

[iheartthed]

I don't know if the Home Depot Crime Deterrent Barn[[r) will work as advertised. GPP is however allowed to give it a try within their city limits.

It is not irrational to take streets and traffic action to control crime. They might be wrong. But they have the right to try.

And they may be racist whitey, or not. But this is in their minds. And we shoudn't try to control their minds. Its not our right to do so.

There may be a 'human right' to shelter, but I haven't yet heard of the human right to compel GPP to act like we think.

And they may be stupid. But that is allowed too. Sometimes being stupid helps you figure out smart.

They can do whatever they want. But the freedom to do what you want does not give you shield from criticism of your decisions.

[swingline]

I don't know if the Home Depot Crime Deterrent Barn[[r) will work as advertised. GPP is however allowed to give it a try within their city limits.

It is not irrational to take streets and traffic action to control crime. They might be wrong. But they have the right to try.

And they may be racist whitey, or not. But this is in their minds. And we shoudn't try to control their minds. Its not our right to do so.

There may be a 'human right' to shelter, but I haven't yet heard of the human right to compel GPP to act like we think.

And they may be stupid. But that is allowed too. Sometimes being stupid helps you figure out smart.

Geez. Again with complaints that non-GPP residents should just shut up because they have no standing and that the GPP right to self-determination trumps everything else.

It's kind of funny that the same doesn't apply to the literally millions of suburban folks who opine about the alleged incompetence of Detroit leadership over the past few decades. And it shouldn't apply. Those folks have every right to complain because what happens in Detroit affects much more than just Detroit. This is a regional community competing in a global economy. We are bloated with far too many local units of government which can each individually commit massive screw ups that damage the quality of life and maybe even the pocketbooks of residents well beyond their municipal border. The Novi and Sterling Heights folks have just as much standing as the folks who claim that they are the "real" Detroiters.

One more thing. If race and crime did not enter into GPP's planning decision to close Kercheval Ave., that would make the decision even more stupid. [[Not advocating that race should've been a consideration, but at least the logic would've been understandable.) Reducing street traffic on Kercheval will hurt, not help the retail. Traffic counts on this small commercial strip are already modest. The density of the pedestrian shed for the neighborhood is also modest so any increased foot traffic from the surrounding neighborhood won't likely make a huge difference to retail merchants. Retail dollars are like water. They seek the easiest path to flow. Even minor obstacles can have a big effect on demand. Storefront retail is not like strip mall, power center or mall retail. Storefront retail customers often arrive spontaneously and the retail owners benefit from the drive-by. The customers can see that the store is open. The customers can also see activity on the street including vehicular traffic. Kercheval needs more traffic, not less. [[Should Birmingham close off Maple west of Old Woodward to make it more walkable?) The experience is dramatically changed if the customer is funneled to parking before driving past.

Even more obvious GPP stupidity derives from the big huge middle finger that the barn flips toward the Detroit side of Kercheval. They might as well put a sign on the side of the barn facing Detroit that says "Fuck regionalism. No economic synergy possible on this street that we share. You losers figure out your own development issues." By literally turning its back on Detroit while making this capital investment, GPP leadership has blown an amazing chance to put historic divisions and divides in the past and demonstrate that regional cooperation can help turnaround a devastated Detroit neighborhood.

The Kercheval barn blockade is dumb on a lot of levels. GPP's amateur-hour "walkability" planning is unlikely to achieve leadership's vision.

[motz]

How about the third thread which is that the barn looks stupid and the concept behind is a joke. I'm will to give the Pointers the benefit of the doubt and assume stupidity and cluelessness instead of racism.

I think Novine is the only one who gets my stance on this entire thing. I assume it's out of cluelessness and stupidity. Also lack of vision and absolutely abhorrent design taste. They really could've made the entire idea seem much more well thought out than "PUT BARN IN STREET".

Edit - I am officially going to submit a petition to rename the shed "Grosse Pointe Parke's Crime Deterrent and Walkability Improving Barn®"

[Goose]

I think Novine is the only one who gets my stance on this entire thing. I assume it's out of cluelessness and stupidity. Also lack of vision and absolutely abhorrent design taste. They really could've made the entire idea seem much more well thought out than "PUT BARN IN STREET".

Edit - I am officially going to submit a petition to rename the shed "Grosse Pointe Parke's Crime Deterrent and Walkability Improving Barn®"

maybe they want to see if the concept takes off and the market area is popular? regardless, i've never seen so many panties in a bunch over a barn....

how about that half built jail that was plopped in the middle of the city... seems a lot more wasteful and shortsighted than a homedepot barn....

[bailey]

maybe they want to see if the concept takes off and the market area is popular? regardless, i've never seen so many panties in a bunch over a barn....

...that they will never actually encounter or use in a place they will never go or haven't gone in decades.

[TKshreve]

...that they will never actually encounter or use in a place they will never go or haven't gone in decades.

Perhaps the "Grosse Pointe Parke's Crime Deterrent and Walkability Improving Barn®" is a little shake up from what's been tried in the past. You know - burnt out houses, liquor stores, abandoned store fronts and urban prairies that have brought so much vibrance and longevity to the existing "region". But the dismal tone around here suggests it will be short lived. No such forward thinking should be tried, unless it's done with other peoples money.

Tell you what, when the structure is inevitably burned down, upper-eastside Detroiters can claim it as a jewel. Orr and his cronies will have to pry it from your cold, dead hands. Plus it would seamlessly fit right into...... oh, say any corner of the neighborhood.

[Danny]

If white folks just keep their communities along East Side Detroit [[say from Conner Rd to E. 8 Mile Rd.) to five richviles and Harper Woods Border, then the Kercheval Wall and other walls along Alter Rd. would not happen.

[Wheels]

If it really is on the Detroit side, will it be "ENTITLED" to free water?