Ruh Oh! Grosse Pointe may have built new blockade on Detroit Property!

[bailey]

So if I tear up part of your driveway, which is legally your property, to put in some flower beds, that's totally cool because Detroit reasons GPP is Great?

.. of course not, and that isn't what happened here. What is going on here is like ME tearing up MY driveway and planting flower beds, Flower beds that may encroach less than a foot onto your property. The answer? move the flower bed back [[at my expense) six inches and return your property to the condition before I encroached or pay you for the sliver encroached upon...not a lawsuit seeking to compel me to replace my driveway because you don't like I removed it.

Your absolute adherence to defending what is obviously Detroit-level planning idiocy, as well as amazingly tacky design choices, amazes me. I normally either agree with you, or can totally see where you are coming from... But it is becoming more and more clear that GPP rushed this project through, didn't consult their neighbor [[which I was taught as a child that you should do, as A Good Human Being, even if your neighbor is trash) and did not consider any implications beyond "We make street pretty so much walkable great success for city!!".

I don't disagree that the project was done rather hamfistedly and the barns are sort of meh. I just don't see how this is cause for this much discussion. Especially after 18 months of public knowledge of the project. Further I think much of the discussion is based on the typical "GP is a bunch of racists" rhetoric.

It might or might not work as planned. It might be terrifically bad urban planning...but from early evidence, it's working pretty well and many people seem to like it... with the exception of the aesthetics of the barns. it seems the only people fanning the flames of this are those of the professionally outraged sort.

To say that Detroit shouldn't pay attention to things like this is, in my opinion, wrong.

That's not what I said. I said, I'm not sure they have the legal standing to make complaints about this supposed "hazard" that exists outside their border. Can GP sue Detroit for letting Chrylser build a factory across Kercheval? Or letting Dan Gilber shut down half of the CBD for his "placemaking" efforts? Seems like it would be more appropriate for the outraged mob of GPers to do so. I don't know...but I would guess [[judging by the events thus far) no traffic study was done.

[bailey]

Nice........

it was sarcasm.

[Gpwrangler]

So if I tear up part of your driveway, which is legally your property, to put in some flower beds, that's totally cool because Detroit reasons GPP is Great? Your absolute adherence to defending what is obviously Detroit-level planning idiocy, as well as amazingly tacky design choices, amazes me. I normally either agree with you, or can totally see where you are coming from... But it is becoming more and more clear that GPP rushed this project through, didn't consult their neighbor [[which I was taught as a child that you should do, as A Good Human Being, even if your neighbor is trash) and did not consider any implications beyond "We make street pretty so much walkable great success for city!!".

And anyone who says Detroit should "focus on their streetlights and blah blah blah", Detroit has departments within their governmental structure that are specifically tasked with investigating issues such as these. To say that Detroit shouldn't pay attention to things like this is, in my opinion, wrong. If Detroit doesn't investigate this issue, it'd be setting an example that says "Yeah, we really don't care about these kinds of things", and lord only knows that'd mean LBP would build a Berlin wall on the median of 8 Mile.

You're right. The streetlights look great. Carry on.

[Honky Tonk]

it was sarcasm.

I know. That's why I said what I did.

[Radioron]

Since part of the discussion is what can and can't GPP do within their own city, can someone tell be what happened to the pile of dirt Auburn Hills blocked Tinken Road with on their boarder with Rochester Hills for better than 12 years? I can find reference to a proposed change in state law in 2002 that would allow a county to take back a road that as once theirs, I guess to allow Oakland County to reclaim Tinken and remove the pile of dirt, but I can't find when or why the barricade was removed. Anyone know?
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/docum...HLA-5962-a.htm

[animatedmartian]

It will be interesting to see what standing Detroit has to sue over a "hazard" created outside its municipal boundary. What if GP closes it at Lakepointe as originally planned and closed the whole strip to vehicle traffic?

GPP SAID THEY WEREN'T CLOSING THE STREET. Yet there's no through street! So GPP gets a pass on incompetence for no reason?

[motz]

You're right. The streetlights look great. Carry on.

Being that you obviously don't travel through or hell, anywhere IN the city of Detroit, you wouldn't know that yeah, they actually HAVE been installing streetlights on previously dark stretches of street in Detroit. I personally live right by a stretch that received new street lights and drastically improved the visibility of that stretch. Everything isn't perfect, but you can't expect a place to look perfect after decades of neglects.

[Radioron]

For anyone that would still care, below are links to newspaper articles and a summary of the court decision describing what the current boarder between GPP and Detroit is an how it this way. I can only assume [[dangerous I know) that Detroit personnel had the same information and came out to measure. The Detroit Free Press article appears to confirm that GPP performed several inches worth of unauthorized concrete work within the city of Detroit. So, if GPP were to restore this concrete area all would be good legally.

http://www.leagle.com/decision...
http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/d... GP News September 17, 1981
http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/d... GP News June 3, 1982
http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/d... GP News September 11, 1986

As to the question of can GPP close a street within their city, Article-VII Section-29 of the Michigan Constitution would appear to be very clear - yes.

If we are going to then argue that the closure is race based we need to look at any street closure or traffic redirection that has taken place on or near the Detroit boarder over the last thirty years, just to be fair.

As a side note - the only Detroit residents that are directly impacted by the closure are those living in the area bounded by Alter, Jefferson, Conner and Vernor. Anyone else drives by an alternate route to take them East into GP when driving to Kercheval and Alter. According to one website I found this is about 2800 people, a very small percentage of the population of Detroit.

[animatedmartian]

But is it an "official" closure or is a not a closure? GPP officials say that the street is not closed.

[Danny]

Not closing Kercheval! The white richville folks are liars.

[Radioron]

Because no one in Detroit city government as ever lied about anything .......
But because gpp is predominatly white they are the evil liars?

[Gpwrangler]

Being that you obviously don't travel through or hell, anywhere IN the city of Detroit, you wouldn't know that yeah, they actually HAVE been installing streetlights on previously dark stretches of street in Detroit. s.

Easy there. Lived here so long I remember when you couldn't tell when you left the East Side and entered the Pointes. There is still lots to be done and plenty of area that are pitch dark at night. Fix that first instead of worrying about what GP does with its streets.

[Gpwrangler]

But is it an "official" closure or is a not a closure? GPP officials say that the street is not closed.

Drive through there in the family car and you will find out what officials have known for over a year. Why they are suddenly afraid to just say they closed the damn street that was being used for a freeway is beyond me.

[animatedmartian]

Drive through there in the family car and you will find out what officials have known for over a year. Why they are suddenly afraid to just say they closed the damn street that was being used for a freeway is beyond me.

Then I'm baffled as to why many parts of Jefferson aren't closed. If their goal was to calm traffic, why didn't they use the cheaper option of putting in a median or narrow the road? There's expert planners who know how to efficiently and cheaply calm traffic on local roads without having to close it. And hey, GPP could have even contacted Detroit and asked whether they wanted to partake in a joint operation and beautify that stretch of Kerchival and Alter.

But I'm guessing that's already an irrational idea to people who see themselves as above their neighbors.

[Pontiac6000]

put the barn in the back along the alley on gp side, run the border along the alter alleyway, and give detroit parking rights in that lot to the left in return for the lost tax revenue for that party store and whatever else is on the detroit side...; then block thru traffic on weekends only. kinda like its a 'store' during the week, and a true 'farmers mkt' on the weekends.

[Gpwrangler]

Then I'm baffled as to why many parts of Jefferson aren't closed. If their goal was to calm traffic, why didn't they use the cheaper option of putting in a median or narrow the road? There's expert planners who know how to efficiently and cheaply calm traffic on local roads without having to close it. And hey, GPP could have even contacted Detroit and asked whether they wanted to partake in a joint operation and beautify that stretch of Kerchival and Alter.

But I'm guessing that's already an irrational idea to people who see themselves as above their neighbors.

Jefferson is a major thoroughfare. Kerchieval is not. Geez.

[Radioron]

Jefferson is a major thoroughfare. Kerchieval is not. Geez.

And Jefferson and Mack are county roads that local communities do not control.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Dannys quote: Not closing Kercheval! The white richville folks are liars.

RaidoRon Quote :Because no one in Detroit city government as ever lied about anything .......
But because gpp is predominantly white they are the evil liars?

It appears that we just can't trust Whitey!!

[animatedmartian]

Jefferson is a major thoroughfare. Kerchieval is not. Geez.

Then why is there a business district on Kerchival which apparently has enough traffic to sustain a farmer's market? Seems like a waste of Grosse Pointe Park's taxpayer $8 million dollars to spruce it up and add a rinky dink shed.

[SyGolden48236]

So much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth about one city trying to keep itself from becoming like its decayed neighbor.

Everyone is welcome at the farmer's market as well as other businesses in GPP regardless of where they live as long as they conduct themselves in a proper civilized manner.

And to those who blather on incessantly about the tackiness of the "Home Depot sheds", these structures are only temporary. A permanent building is planned. The sheds were not from Home Depot. They were built on site to take advantage of the waning summer days. There was not enough time to build a permanent building before the season was over.

Let's try to focus attention on more important things rather than an internet crusade against perceived slights and potential hurt feelings. We're all adults here so suck it up buttercup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_z2-U8e0Kc

[Dan Wesson]

[[SARC on)...

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[[SARC off)


carry on

[SyGolden48236]

[[SARC on)...

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[[SARC off)


carry on

The scrap metal thieves in the city would have that thing torn apart within hours. Why there must be at least $15 worth of metal there.

[Novine]

"Everyone is welcome at the farmer's market as well as other businesses in GPP regardless of where they live as long as they conduct themselves in a proper civilized manner."

How gracious of the Pointers. Maybe you can work on stopping your children from coming into Detroit and trashing the town.

[SyGolden48236]

[QUOTE=Novine How gracious of the Pointers. Maybe you can work on stopping your children from coming into Detroit and trashing the town. [/QUOTE]

Those three young women are being dealt with by the legal system and by their parents, as they good and well should be. And anyone who trashes anyone's town should be similarly dealt with whether it is suburban folks causing trouble in Detroit or Detroiters committing crimes in the suburbs.

So, now, what again is your point as it relates to the farmer's market? Or did you just want to play with your favorite straw man?

[Gpwrangler]

Then why is there a business district on Kerchival which apparently has enough traffic to sustain a farmer's market? Seems like a waste of Grosse Pointe Park's taxpayer $8 million dollars to spruce it up and add a rinky dink shed.

How GP spends it's tax money is GP's concern.