Taubman dumping Fairlane & Partridge Creek

[nain rouge]

I've never understood the logic of placing a mall 1 mile away from another mall, eventhough it caters to a more affluent crowd in some respects. I don't see how adding yet another outlet mall 2 miles away from Partridge Creek will do anything but cannibalize sales from Lakeside and Partridge Creek.

It makes sense when you can find an overheated retail market, build your shiny, unsustainable, overpriced mall there on relatively cheap real estate, and then get out once the newness wears off.

Stony Point Fashion Mall in Richmond,VA - which Taubman also let go in this deal - is a perfect example. The Richmond area has way too much retail, about 60 feet of retail per person. That's roughly double what Charlotte or Nashville has. Taubman saw the "demand" and built a Partridge Creek-style mall just south of the James River at the same time another developer was building a nearly identical outdoor mall just north of the James. The market isn't big enough in Richmond for two upscale outdoor malls that close, but they went ahead anyway.

Now, if you knew Richmond, you'd know that south of the river is the equivalent of Macomb, and north is the equivalent of Oakland. Taubman had the clear loser location in such a duel. And Taubman understood that, and everything else. But the company also knew the short-term demand was there, the land was cheap enough, and they could get out before the crap hit the fan. Long-term was irrelevant.

[313WX]

I feel bad for workers at Macomb Mall. It's clear that the new mall owners plan to eventually turn it an "outdoor plaza" [[such as was seen with Universal Mall at 12 & Dequindre), but they have the mall workers celebrating the construction of a Dick's and partial teardown of the enclosed shopping area as a sign of positive reinvestment. When, in reality, they're just milking the indoor portion of the mall for what little is left to be squeezed out. Most of the shops in Macomb Mall will be gone in 5-10 years tops, I predict.

The sad part about Macomb Mall is that it was a fairly nice shopping mall as recently as the late 90s/early 2000s.

Unfortunately, its customer base has either fleed to Northern Macomb County [[and now give their business to the places along Hall Road) or has less disposable income to spend, as a lot of folks who worked in those decent-paying factories throughout NE Detroit, Warren and Roseville were laid off when their jobs were offshored and when the automakers went bankrupt.

[Danny]

Fairlane is not a Mall; it is a Town Center.

Let's define a [[shopping mall) or simply mall is one or more buildings forming a complex of shops representing merchandisers, with interconnecting walkways enabling visitors to walk from unit to unit. Other establishments including movie theaters and restaurants are also often included.


Source Wikipedia......

Fairlane Shopping Center is a MALL not just a town center.

[mikeg19]

Where did you read that? I can't find it in the article. In fact I can't find profitable or least when I search using the web tool.

Planner, you can find the comment in the Freep article:

These malls are the less-strong properties within Taubman's portfolio.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140618/BUSINESS06/306180127/Tabuman-Centers-sells-Mall-at-Partridge-Creek-Fairlane-Town-Center


Maybe I jumped the gun a bit in stating "less profitable", as the article states "less strong" performing properties. I took that as less profitable, but then again, they don't give any kind of criteria on which that statement was made.

[DetroitPlanner]

Let's define a [[shopping mall) or simply mall is one or more buildings forming a complex of shops representing merchandisers, with interconnecting walkways enabling visitors to walk from unit to unit. Other establishments including movie theaters and restaurants are also often included.


Source Wikipedia......

Fairlane Shopping Center is a MALL not just a town center.

It is a mall that is called a Town Center. http://www.shopfairlane.com/

It is in the center of the town of Dearborn. It is also the central gathering place in all of the developments collectively known as Fairlane. It cetrainly lost a bit when the people mover was removed instead of expanded.

[hybridy]

some walkable, transit-friendly shopping plazas need to be built in Detroit. Preferably with a diverse lineup of shops.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/oakl...ection-in-troy

[Hermod]

some walkable, transit-friendly shopping plazas need to be built in Detroit. Preferably with a diverse lineup of shops.

Build away and make your fortune.

[Hermod]

1. Developer build a mall

2. Income = rental from tenants

3. Expenses = mortgage, insurance, operations, and maintenance.

4. Cash flow = Item 1 minus Item 2.

5. Profit [[loss) = Item 1 minus Item 2 minus depreciation.

6. Developer can show a positive cash flow [[Item 4) while showing a balance sheet loss [[Item 5).

7. When depreciation equals zero and he begins to show a positive [[i.e. taxable) profit, he uses the profit to advertise the property for sale.

8. He sells the property for somewhere near what he paid for it [[or better yet at a good markup).

9. Since he has depreciated to the property to near zero, the sale price comes on to his books as a long term capital gain and is taxed at a lower rate than profits would be taxed.

10.. The developer then goes on to the next property and the new buyer starts the cycle all over again.

[GUSHI]

Time to build a upscale mall in Oakland twp, there go the neighborhood.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/oakl...ection-in-troy

[GUSHI]

Wow what idiots , not even somerset is safe anymore, hey at least no 1 got hurt, thats what insurance is for,

[DetroitPlanner]

1. Developer build a mall

2. Income = rental from tenants

3. Expenses = mortgage, insurance, operations, and maintenance.

4. Cash flow = Item 1 minus Item 2.

2 - 3 actually.

[John]

Are you aware that the 5 miles north of Hall Rd.and 3 miles south of Hall Rd. Between I 94 and M59 freeway in Utica has the largest population per capita of household incomes of over 100k per year? Than anywhere else in Metro Detroit?

What is the source of your information? As far as per-capita income goes, not one single area of Macomb County ranks in the top 50 list of subdivisions in Michigan. Macomb County even ranks below the national per-capita income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiga..._capita_income

[GUSHI]

She said Utica, Parts of shelby, washington , macomb and even clinton twp, have money,,,,A lot of business owners,

[DetroitPlanner]

What is the source of your information? As far as per-capita income goes, not one single area of Macomb County ranks in the top 50 list of subdivisions in Michigan. Macomb County even ranks below the national per-capita income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiga..._capita_income

Not a list of subdivisions. It is a list of counties. Macomb comes in at a respectable #10 with a family or household income well above the U.S. as a whole. It also has nearly 900,000 people.

The list below it is incomplete and different to boot. Argentine is neither a City or Township. It is a CDP. [[Census Designated Place).Salem Twp is missing, as is Washington, Chesterfield, and Macomb townships to name a few.

[That Great Guy]

Very funny. Obviously, the only way to stop behavior like Taubman's is for consumers to vote with their wallets. But they won't. If Taubman opened up another mall on Hall Road, they'd all shop there and talk about about Lakeside is "ghetto" now, although they used to like it.[/COLOR]

My comment to you was meant to be funny.

There is no account of our tax dollars anymore. We vote with our kind hearts believing this August a YES vote for SMART is the best choice

It is if you want Fairlane workers to pay $40 per day from a tax on rent to transport my ass to and from my work. Hell, why do they want to do this? I make 80k, have a beautiful wife and can pay the full amount myself.

SMART only collects 10 percent of costs from people like me who use bike racks by taxing those who can least afford to pay and those who don't use or have SMART Then we wonder? Why don't people go to fairlane on the bus but drive to Wally Mart? You silly taxpayers on this forum.

[Hermod]

My comment to you was meant to be funny.

There is no account of our tax dollars anymore. We vote with our kind hearts believing this August a YES vote for SMART is the best choice

It is if you want Fairlane workers to pay $40 per day from a tax on rent to transport my ass to and from my work. Hell, why do they want to do this? I make 80k, have a beautiful wife and can pay the full amount myself.

SMART only collects 10 percent of costs from people like me who use bike racks by taxing those who can least afford to pay and those who don't use or have SMART Then we wonder? Why don't people go to fairlane on the bus but drive to Wally Mart? You silly taxpayers on this forum.

You know, we heard you the first of a hundred or so posts.

[Danny]

Time to build a upscale mall in Oakland twp, there go the neighborhood.

Where black thugs had no place in ghetto to rob, they go into the suburbs where security is an illusion to them. They will be robberies, so stepping up security is answer to stop folks wearing Trayvon Martins.

This robbery at the Saks happen in broad daylight! Those thugs must have case the area, plan and plot their robberies and get away before mall cops and Troy Police came.

[313WX]

Where black thugs had no place in ghetto to rob, they go into the suburbs where security is an illusion to them. They will be robberies, so stepping up security is answer to stop folks wearing Trayvon Martins.

This robbery at the Saks happen in broad daylight! Those thugs must have case the area, plan and plot their robberies and get away before mall cops and Troy Police came.

Not really.

They saw it on Grand Theft Auto V.

[motz]

Wow what idiots , not even somerset is safe anymore, hey at least no 1 got hurt, thats what insurance is for,

Oh no, I'm sure we can solve all of our problems by building more primarily white suburbs further from the inner city! It's not like "those people" have cars or anything. I can't wait until we can relieve ourselves of "the urban menace"!! What has this country come to! Etc!

[John]

Not a list of subdivisions. It is a list of counties. Macomb comes in at a respectable #10 with a family or household income well above the U.S. as a whole. It also has nearly 900,000 people.

The list below it is incomplete and different to boot. Argentine is neither a City or Township. It is a CDP. [[Census Designated Place).Salem Twp is missing, as is Washington, Chesterfield, and Macomb townships to name a few.

I was responding to a post claiming that a section of Macomb County "has the largest population per capita of household incomes of over 100k per year Than anywhere else in Metro Detroit" Which i find hard to believe.

If you have a source of this being even remotely true, please feel free to share it.

[GUSHI]

Why do you assume they are from the inner city, the suburbs are becoming very diverse,

Oh no, I'm sure we can solve all of our problems by building more primarily white suburbs further from the inner city! It's not like "those people" have cars or anything. I can't wait until we can relieve ourselves of "the urban menace"!! What has this country come to! Etc!

[GUSHI]

People of all race commit crime, Daniel

Where black thugs had no place in ghetto to rob, they go into the suburbs where security is an illusion to them. They will be robberies, so stepping up security is answer to stop folks wearing Trayvon Martins.

This robbery at the Saks happen in broad daylight! Those thugs must have case the area, plan and plot their robberies and get away before mall cops and Troy Police came.

[GUSHI]

By the was the 7-11 in Macomb two got robbed last night @ 22 and Romeo Plank, down the street from Partridge Creek.

[Detroit500]

Partridge Creek has been a disaster, that is obvious. Just compare the stock at the nordstrom there compared to the one at Somerset or Twelve Oaks. I think Taubman knows it was a mistake and is getting out of the game. Fair lane, I am surprised is still open and I am surprised has continued to be held by Taubman, even after he got out of say, Lakeside. Saks and Lord and Taylor are both out, not much left.

Not ot sure what Starwood has in store, or what they think the advantage is here. Taubman is following his Forbes Company friends playbook, and clearly betting that a curated luxury mall experience is what the shopping center of the future will look like. Not necessarily a bad bet.

[D_Town]

Fairlane may benefit from this deal. Starwood may out money to actually redevelop the center