City of Detroit butting heads with blight-eating Brightmoor goats

[ABetterDetroit]

Goats are not really going to solve the problem. A 6 billion dollar hedge fund guy and goats are your best idea? Gee maybe buying a commecial lawn mover and hiring a guy to run it all summer would actually be more help than hundreds of goats. I would have said thanks but no thanks as well and sent a message that if you ever get serious about solutions we are listening because we are still here fighting the fight.

[Wesley Mouch]

Goats are not really going to solve the problem. A 6 billion dollar hedge fund guy and goats are your best idea? Gee maybe buying a commecial lawn mover and hiring a guy to run it all summer would actually be more help than hundreds of goats. I would have said thanks but no thanks as well and sent a message that if you ever get serious about solutions we are listening because we are still here fighting the fight.

People getting together to solve their problems is a great first step. Of course goats shouldn't be the only answer. But to squash good, postive ideas is too much like the tea party. And what harm is there in goats? So they eat your discarded shoes.... now if we could only get them to walk on electric lines....

[unclefrank]

Goats are not really going to solve the problem. A 6 billion dollar hedge fund guy and goats are your best idea? Gee maybe buying a commecial lawn mover and hiring a guy to run it all summer would actually be more help than hundreds of goats. I would have said thanks but no thanks as well and sent a message that if you ever get serious about solutions we are listening because we are still here fighting the fight.

Of course it's not the solution, but it's better than nothing at all. Farming in the former city is a great idea.

[ABetterDetroit]

People getting together to solve their problems is a great first step. Of course goats shouldn't be the only answer. But to squash good, postive ideas is too much like the tea party. And what harm is there in goats? So they eat your discarded shoes.... now if we could only get them to walk on electric lines....

Still not in. Seems kinda like a semi-trailer load of lollipops spilled on the freeway and someone thought it would be fun to bring his 3 and 5 year old to help clean them up when what you need is a frontend loader to do the job in a timely manner.

[Django]

How about lifting the law that regulates the number of strip bars? Lets have them everywhere! Near Churches, Schools, police stations. Why it is useful for perverts! How about legalizing heroin while we are at it? It is useful for addicts! And those pesky anti pollution laws too. If I could find it useful to store petcoke or throw my trash onto empty lots than that too should be legal.

Goats do have a tendency of wandering off and getting into peoples gardens. To some they are a nuisance. Therefore there probably are people opposed to goats.

The laws are there for a reason. Yes the reason may or may no longer be valid. Before it changes some research is needed to why the laws exist. Living in Warrendale there were people butchering goats and lambs in their yards before the cops put a kybosh on it. Maybe it has something to do with that? I sure don't want that stench and the sound of animals screaming next door to me.

I really don't have a view on where strip clubs should go. Heroin though I do think should be regulated and legalized but we can debate that with glee on another thread. As far as petcoke storage on the river near the city I am of course against it. The article I read said goatman would be providing an electric fence as I believe I mentioned. As far as getting research done in Detroit on this subject good luck, the citys too busy charging fees so someone can open up a coffee house. Lastly, if someone stole a goat out of a fenced yard and butchered it wouldn't that be a real crime. Goatman said he would sell them to butchers, like at Eastern Market. Your reply makes no sense other than the fact that it is technically illegal which begs the question, why is it illegal? Change comes from within and this is as good a starting point as any. You gotta come with something better than that DP.

[Django]

From Sec. 6-1-3. Owning, harboring, keeping, maintaining, selling or transferring of farm or wild animals prohibited; exception for circuses, zoos, and other approved activities; separate violations for each animal; disposition of animals in violation of this section.oes anyone know what that date means on the last line? I don't know.

I was wondering the same thing. It seems this would be a much older ordinance than 2004, maybe it was updated in 2004. Bring on the goats to brightmoor.

[GUSHI]

Goats, chickens, cows, horses, donkeys, Shit let farm half the city, why not, beat boarded up , half standing structures.

[ABetterDetroit]

I really don't have a view on where strip clubs should go. Heroin though I do think should be regulated and legalized but we can debate that with glee on another thread. As far as petcoke storage on the river near the city I am of course against it. The article I read said goatman would be providing an electric fence as I believe I mentioned. As far as getting research done in Detroit on this subject good luck, the citys too busy charging fees so someone can open up a coffee house. Lastly, if someone stole a goat out of a fenced yard and butchered it wouldn't that be a real crime. Goatman said he would sell them to butchers, like at Eastern Market. Your reply makes no sense other than the fact that it is technically illegal which begs the question, why is it illegal? Change comes from within and this is as good a starting point as any. You gotta come with something better than that DP.

Django
I am pretty sure that when it comes to the war on drugs, you and me could meet over a coffee or a beer and fix the stupidity on a napkin with a broken pencil and layout a way better future for America then what the Feds have going. But that truth doesn't change the fact that national policy changes at a glacial pace and places like Detoit fall by the wayside as they do nothing in Washington. We can't wait, we have to play by the rules that everyone else in this country plays by and get on with it for the time being. There is no other choice. If we decided that we were going to be the community to lay down in the street to effect a change, they would just drive right the fuck over us and care less. That truth has already been proven.

[Django]

Django
I am pretty sure that when it comes to the war on drugs, you and me could meet over a coffee or a beer and fix the stupidity on a napkin with a broken pencil and layout a way better future for America then what the Feds have going. But that truth doesn't change the fact that national policy changes at a glacial pace and places like Detoit fall by the wayside as they do nothing in Washington. We can't wait, we have to play by the rules that everyone else in this country plays by and get on with it for the time being. There is no other choice. If we decided that we were going to be the community to lay down in the street to effect a change, they would just drive right the fuck over us and care less. That truth has already been proven.

I completely agree. I don't know how to get something changed in city ordinances though but I know it can be done. This city is ripe to be farmed both with plant and animal. I just think there need to be some changes so it can go smoother. Why cant a guy investing in the city try out an experimental project of having goats on acres and acres of fenced in land land? I think the ordinance needs to be changed so that this would be possible. I never said break the law [[at least I don't think I did)

[old guy]

The area I live in, most of the towns have changed their ordinances so that people can keep a small number of chickens in their back yards. No roosters because they're too noisy. No complaints that I know of and I know 4 or 5 people that I can get fresh, real eggs from. It just makes sense. Those commercial egg factories scare me.

[DetroitPlanner]

I really don't have a view on where strip clubs should go. Heroin though I do think should be regulated and legalized but we can debate that with glee on another thread. As far as petcoke storage on the river near the city I am of course against it. The article I read said goatman would be providing an electric fence as I believe I mentioned. As far as getting research done in Detroit on this subject good luck, the citys too busy charging fees so someone can open up a coffee house. Lastly, if someone stole a goat out of a fenced yard and butchered it wouldn't that be a real crime. Goatman said he would sell them to butchers, like at Eastern Market. Your reply makes no sense other than the fact that it is technically illegal which begs the question, why is it illegal? Change comes from within and this is as good a starting point as any. You gotta come with something better than that DP.

The last paragraph of my statement is what you should be reacting to. The first is mearly examples I used to show that there are much bigger controversies than goats. The goat owner should have followed the rules no matter how archaic you may think they are. Societies have rules. Societies also change. The first step is to change the rule then you can have goats. You may find that there are legitimate reasons for not having goats. I am not a herder so I don't know their behaviour beyond that they will eat everything in sight.

[FlyOnTheWall]

I am not a herder so I don't know their behaviour beyond that they will eat everything in sight.

LOL As someone that has raised goats, I have to say this statement is totally incorrect. Actually goats are quite fussy eaters, but they do like to check out almost anything.

[mwilbert]

Still not in. Seems kinda like a semi-trailer load of lollipops spilled on the freeway and someone thought it would be fun to bring his 3 and 5 year old to help clean them up when what you need is a frontend loader to do the job in a timely manner.

Goats are a perfectly reasonable and well-established way of cleaning up brush. I'm not sure I understand your objection to the concept; there is no reason they have to eat all the brush in Brightmoor within some fixed period.

On the other hand, if it isn't a legal method in the city, and it looks like it isn't, then that is a perfectly reasonable objection, and if people think goats should be allwed to do their goat activities in Brightmoor, they probably should try to get the city to allow it

[DetroitPlanner]

LOL As someone that has raised goats, I have to say this statement is totally incorrect. Actually goats are quite fussy eaters, but they do like to check out almost anything.

My uncle had goats on his farm. Your goats must be a different breed than his! LOL Yeah they are inqusitive; they don't eat everything, but they sure like stuff such as gardens. I can see goats being counterproductive to those who want to see all of these 'urban vegetable and fruit groves'.

[mercyme]

Interesting thing about goats is they like most weeds and vines over grass. So they would clear out the weeds and once they were gone they'd munch on the grass. Come winter time though someone would have to house and feed these cuties. PS Rose bushes are their very favorite food.

Goat dung is little balls, like rabbits, though bigger. It's not particularly smelly because goats aren't carnivores.

[Django]

The last paragraph of my statement is what you should be reacting to. The first is mearly examples I used to show that there are much bigger controversies than goats. The goat owner should have followed the rules no matter how archaic you may think they are. Societies have rules. Societies also change. The first step is to change the rule then you can have goats. You may find that there are legitimate reasons for not having goats. I am not a herder so I don't know their behaviour beyond that they will eat everything in sight.

Can we please just get past this DP. Go back and read again my first post. I said the law needs to be changed. I still think whoever brought up this stink about raising goats on acres and acres of land inside a fenced area for the good of the city is just a do gooder with no real purpose. I had to deal with three women like this who didnt like my stacking of rocks on Belle Isle. Ive always wanted to thank those three women for making a stink because they brought my rock stacking project into the spotlight and I garnered tons of publicity.
I honestly was surprised when Goat Man brought up the fact that Detroit will let rules bend. Maybe hes brought it up to start some changes by making an obvious debate. Who really doesn't want farms in Detroit? That little quote about Detroit being lax on laws really started this whole thread. Smart man if my theory is right.
I hope you all are pickin up what Im layin down.

[noggin]

The city did not make a fuss about the goat at the famous goatyard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv22EV3pUv0

[Wesley Mouch]

The last paragraph of my statement is what you should be reacting to. The first is mearly examples I used to show that there are much bigger controversies than goats. The goat owner should have followed the rules no matter how archaic you may think they are. Societies have rules. Societies also change. The first step is to change the rule then you can have goats. You may find that there are legitimate reasons for not having goats. I am not a herder so I don't know their behaviour beyond that they will eat everything in sight.

DP, reading your posts I gather than you are in fact an employed by City of Detroit planner. You probably then know just how City bureaucracy can be.

Big fish and the politically connected can spend a lot of time pouring lawyers onto something like this. And yes, you can change the rules if you play the game.

If we want to be a city where big-box stores sprout from every corner, then the right path is to hold everyone to every rule every time.

If we want to be a city with creative entrepreneurs, we need to be more nimble.

You're probably familiar with AHJ excetion wording in many codes. Authority Having Jurisdiction. Most codes allow local AHJ to make the final call. Code-writers know that they don't know everything and every situation.

Similarly, our municipal zoning should be flexible. Maybe there should be a 'creative exemption' clause. Allowing someone in City Hall to make fast judgments about codes that need to be flexible to meet the world's changing needs. I'm pretty sure whoever wrote the city's animal/goat rules never imagined Brightmoor. They probably couldn't imagine in their wildest nightmares that there would be blocks of vacant, weed choked lots where a goat might be called for.

Do we want our future to look only like our past?

[DetroitPlanner]

Do we want our future to look only like our past?

I want Brightmoor to be better than its past. It was always a a $h!t neighborhood.

[Sharnelle]

Just saw this short bit on goats being considered as "natural lawnmowers" for a trendy area of Brooklyn. Looks like an inclination that's sweeping the nation: http://inhabitat.com/nyc/snacking-go...mmer-in-dumbo/

[jt1]

Just saw this short bit on goats being considered as "natural lawnmowers" for a trendy area of Brooklyn. Looks like an inclination that's sweeping the nation: http://inhabitat.com/nyc/snacking-go...mmer-in-dumbo/

I wonder if the AFSCME would fight this

[Wesley Mouch]

Just saw this short bit on goats being considered as "natural lawnmowers" for a trendy area of Brooklyn. Looks like an inclination that's sweeping the nation: http://inhabitat.com/nyc/snacking-go...mmer-in-dumbo/

So let's learn from this and drop all the zoning and code protectionst, retrograde bullshit and start Moving Detroit Forward. [[With a very light, intelligent regulatory touch.)

[[And yes, AFSCME will complain until they can extract dues from the goats. Goats don't like unions. They prefer their Right To Graze. I hear Snyder will be signing RTG over democratic opposition in a midnight barnyard signing. Four legs better. And like Corporations, they are people too much caffeine for me.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

So let's learn from this and drop all the zoning and code protectionst, retrograde bullshit and start Moving Detroit Forward. [[With a very light, intelligent regulatory touch.)

[[And yes, AFSCME will complain until they can extract dues from the goats. Goats don't like unions. They prefer their Right To Graze. I hear Snyder will be signing RTG over democratic opposition in a midnight barnyard signing. Four legs better. And like Corporations, they are people too much caffeine for me.

Good idea. Get rid of all zoning a place a fertilizer plant next to a school like the one that blew up in West, Texas. Or perhaps a chemical plant or a new Marathon refinery or pile of Koch petcoke next to the Mouch house.

[EastsideAl]

From Sec. 6-1-3. Owning, harboring, keeping, maintaining, selling or transferring of farm or wild animals prohibited; exception for circuses, zoos, and other approved activities; separate violations for each animal; disposition of animals in violation of this section.oes anyone know what that date means on the last line? I don't know.

It is from 2004, when the laws on animal keeping were recodified from their previous incarnation in the 1964 code. However, Detroit, like most major cities in the U.S., has had laws against keeping farm animals inside the city for a very long time. From the evidence I can find, the herding of goats was banned in Detroit at least by 1912.

[EastsideAl]

Has anyone thought to ask the people still living in Brightmoor how they feel about the goats?