Ex-Convict Lonnie Bates Gets City Pension

**Pazen Hingree** · June-04-14, 09:40 PM

haven't heard alonzo's name in a while.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/convicts-st...-city-pensions

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-05-14, 12:39 AM

Nothing new. He's not the only one.

**Honky Tonk** · June-05-14, 08:33 AM

The whole article disgusts me. And people keep blaming Snidely and Orr for this City's woe's.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-05-14, 09:06 AM

I don't think its reasonable to take away a pension because of criminal activity. With two caveats:
1) Taking only 25% as restitution isn't enough unless that will pay 100% back over his expected stay with us in this world.
2) All pensions should be equal. The lowest worker at the City should get the same pension as Mike Duggan. Pensions should not be indexed by working wages. That's just a way for those with power to stay on top. If you want a better retirement, make more during your working years and save.

**Honky Tonk** · June-05-14, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I don't think its reasonable to take away a pension because of criminal activity. With two caveats:
1) Taking only 25% as restitution isn't enough unless that will pay 100% back over his expected stay with us in this world.
2) All pensions should be equal. The lowest worker at the City should get the same pension as Mike Duggan. Pensions should not be indexed by working wages. That's just a way for those with power to stay on top. If you want a better retirement, make more during your working years and save.

There's the magic word, Mr. Mouch, "restitution". A word not prevalent in the COD dictionary.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-05-14, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

2) All pensions should be equal. The lowest worker at the City should get the same pension as Mike Duggan. Pensions should not be indexed by working wages. That's just a way for those with power to stay on top. If you want a better retirement, make more during your working years and save.

Pensions are based not just on salary, but on year put in. Are you saying that someone who paid into the pension for 35-40 years should get the same amount as someone who paid in for 8?

If so, what is to stop people from working five different jobs for 8 years and getting five times the amount of a pension?

Duggan will not be there as long as your average police or fireman. Should the guy who worked his whole career for one place be penalized while Duggan collects a pension from Detroit, Wayne County, DMC, and SMART?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-05-14, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Pensions are based not just on salary, but on year put in. Are you saying that someone who paid into the pension for 35-40 years should get the same amount as someone who paid in for 8?

If so, what is to stop people from working five different jobs for 8 years and getting five times the amount of a pension?

Duggan will not be there as long as your average police or fireman. Should the guy who worked his whole career for one place be penalized while Duggan collects a pension from Detroit, Wayne County, DMC, and SMART?

Great points. Mouch doesn't get it. The only thing I agree with him on is saving money. That is the key to any retirement. Most people don't save enough, or start too late.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-05-14, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Great points. Mouch doesn't get it. The only thing I agree with him on is saving money. That is the key to any retirement. Most people don't save enough, or start too late.

I'd rather kill all pensions and improve social security. It is much fairer, and it helps more people. I'm a closet socialist. What really bothers me is any pension that exceeds the average by 100%. There's just no reason why we give more public money to some workers than others. My rally cry -- equal public pensions for all. I want the janitor at city hall to have the same pension as a retired department head.

**Cliffy** · June-05-14, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'd rather kill all pensions and improve social security. It is much fairer, and it helps more people. I'm a closet socialist. What really bothers me is any pension that exceeds the average by 100%. There's just no reason why we give more public money to some workers than others. My rally cry -- equal public pensions for all. I want the janitor at city hall to have the same pension as a retired department head.

No pensions exceed their average. Its not possible. If someone has a 3 year average of 90k, they are not going to get a 100k pension. Its not possible.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-06-14, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'd rather kill all pensions and improve social security. It is much fairer, and it helps more people. I'm a closet socialist. What really bothers me is any pension that exceeds the average by 100%. There's just no reason why we give more public money to some workers than others. My rally cry -- equal public pensions for all. I want the janitor at city hall to have the same pension as a retired department head.

While a commendable suggestion, in the real world, that would never happen.

slow_motion · June-05-14, 09:13 AM

Your brew pub and trolley you dreamers are so excited about don't address the 60 years of corruption. That ain't going away anytime soon. No developers in the nation will touch Detroit because it's the most corrupt city in the US, period.

**Gistok** · June-06-14, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by slow_motion

Your brew pub and trolley you dreamers are so excited about don't address the 60 years of corruption. That ain't going away anytime soon. No developers in the nation will touch Detroit because it's the most corrupt city in the US, period.

Do you think that leaving the Detroit Free Press "wild west forum" to troll here makes your posts any more valid?

**eno** · June-06-14, 12:01 PM

Isn't Bates Academy named after Lonnie Bates? Isn't it time to change the name of that school?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-07-14, 11:26 AM

If people who have bilked the public are getting a public pension, then requiring restitution from the pension payments is appropriate. But their "debt to society" is primarily paid by the fact that they "did time." That's the point of prison, isn't it? I can't see the point in making them totally forfeit a pension, which may be their only means of support, any more than trying to make an ex-con ineligible for social security benefits that they earned. We have enough homeless and destitute people in this country as it is.

We have plenty of banksters who also stole from the public when they crashed the economy, but since they did so somewhat indirectly they have by and large suffered zilch in consequences.

**Dumpling** · June-07-14, 12:00 PM

The emergency manager’s team has found one unexplained instance in which a retiree contributed $55,000 toward an annuity fund worth $1.8 million, Nowling said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz33yOEAKZI

Like Nowling, I was wondering myself how that was possible and have been awaiting the followup story. My pension mileage [[which I thank all of you metro Detroiters for) varies
greatly from this. Just roughly, making the assumption that I stay with the city until
retirement age, there should be about $12,000 pension and $12,000 social security per
year. I think in the above instance there may have been chicanery. The maximum
percent withheld from anyone's check for the annuity was seven percent.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-07-14, 01:27 PM

Most of city employees are salaried and do not have the ability to get overtime. Most hourly employees do not have access to all of the unlimited overtime for which is being discussed.

Yes some folks game the system. It is very few and far between that can pony up the money to 'buy' extra years of service. My gut feeling is that should be changed, but I am not an actuary.