Gilbert states the Pistons should be called the Auburn Hills Pistons

[eliboyer]

With LeBron James now gone, it'll be interesting to see the change in value of the Cavaliers over the next few years.

James hasn't been on the Cavs since the 09-10 season, so if the franchise's value changed any due to him leaving, I assume that's already happened. And considering they've had 3 of the last 4 #1 picks, they should be in good shape going forward.

[TTime]

These are the COMPLETELY transformed neighborhoods you're referring to? A few hot restaurants and hipsters do not make a completely transformed neighborhood. Show me real change in housing, median income, demographics, education, crime, etc. I might give you a little bit of leeway with the West Loop, but please don't pass off Ukrainian Village and Logan Square as transformed in any real way.

Wow, Eli you have completely lost any credibility here.

[Scottathew]

You mean because Gilbert is pissed the Pistons aren't further subsidizing his foundering, taxpayer-subsidized, downtown empire?

I assume you meant to say "floundering". Either your being disingenuous or your don't work or live downtown. Things have changed tremendously in a matter of a few years.

[Scottathew]

Seems pretty obvious to me. It's been nearly 10 years now since Gilbert made his announcement and all his billions have done little. He has yet to attract one retailer of note. Woodward looks basically the same.

Patience my friend. I work downtown and I can tell you the difference between from the pre-Quicken days are amazing. Campus Martius has been bustling with people. There are many new lunch options. A new 10 story parking structure has been built. Rent prices have gone up as demand has greatly increased.

There's still a ton of room for improvement. We still would love to see new things like residential high-rise contruction, streetwall restoration, etc...

However, it's only been five or so years [[not the decade that you're trying to turn it into). Change takes time. To whine that Downtown Detroit hasn't had a radical transformation in five years is silly.

The things that have been accomplished in five years is amazing and momentum is now in the CBD's favor. I'm excited to see what the next five years will have in store for folks that live or work downtown.

[Scottathew]

With all due respect, I don't think tremendously means what you think it means. Some of you very clearly haven't spent much time outside of the region. Tremendous change is happening in Chicago, DC, Houston and Dallas... even Grand Rapids, MI... but not Detroit.

If you don't see the change in Detroit, then you're not looking. I'm glad to hear that other places are changing for the better too.

Downtown has had a tremendous change over a five year period. You can deny that, and if you did I would venture to guess that you don't live or work downtown.

I can only hope the Duggan and others are going to bring the same transformations to the neighborhoods. Duggan's administration has reported huge efforts that have happened it just months. I hope it's all true and that in 2015 we'll be looking back in astonishment over what was accomplished in 12 months.

[nain rouge]

Downtown Detroit has improved. The problem is that it had a ridiculously huge hole to climb out of. There are more businesses, no doubt, but they're still just trying to save what's left. And we as see with examples like SkyBar Lounge, sometimes a decent bar isn't enough to make a true difference - the David Stott is still in a precarious position, with slum landlords.

Also, Detroit - like many downtowns in big cities - has a vibrancy "handicap" thanks to modernist developments. You might love staring at Minoru Yamasaki's additions to the skyline, but a fat lot of good that does for the pedestrians that don't work in his buildings. The casinos, too, are monolithic and try to suck people out of downtown [[Greektown, anyone?). Hell, the Guardian Building is beautiful, but what does it really do for vibrancy on the street level?

And if there is a successful restaurant or what have you, whoever owns the nearby parking gets greedy and tries to charge an arm and leg [[and, of course, is usually sandwiched between abandoned buildings). Meanwhile, the meter maids are waiting like vultures for you to park at a broken meter. Fun, fun, fun.

One of Detroit's biggest mistakes has been the city's maniacal focus on downtown, fed by delusions of grandeur that seem to assume that SKYSCRAPERS = MANHATTAN!!!! Fact is, as long as the car is king, the days of the entire metropolitan area streaming into downtown to do everything are over. No big city really has that anymore. The real life, the real draw, and the real taxes are the neighborhoods. When you go to Manhattan on vacation, you generally don't go to the central business district at night to get your kicks. You go to a hip neighborhood.

[GUSHI]

I don't know if I can fund another stadium....

Split time like the jets and giants

[iheartthed]

The Detroit Pistons are the only franchise in the NBA that plays its home games outside of the city that the team is named after. So, he's right, according to de facto protocol for the NBA.

[eliboyer]

Wow, Eli you have completely lost any credibility here.

Please enlighten me as to how? Don't just throw out blanket statements, show me. How have those three Chicago neighborhoods been completely transformed?

In particular, I was in Logan Square last weekend and I still see homeless littering the streets. Still see empty storefronts next to the hottest restaurants. Don't see any real residential development on a high level. The Latin Kings, Imperial Gangsters and Maniac Latin Disciples still operate throughout the neighborhood. What am I missing?

[believe14]

All I can say is you all have tremendous patience and very shallow expectations if you're impressed with the "progress" in Detroit over the last five years.

[stinkytofu]

All I can say is you all have tremendous patience and very shallow expectations if you're impressed with the "progress" in Detroit over the last five years.

We all wish progress was going quicker, but at least two of us have given you facts about how downtown has improved over the last five years. Your rebuttal is just empty statements.

[Cliffy]

NFL Teams often have stadiums outside of their "name" cities:
Patriots, Giants, Redskins, Dolphins, Cowboys just off the top of my head.

Yup. Add the Jets to that list. Also the 49ers just built a new stadium that is 40 miles out of SF. Its really no big deal. The Pistons just need to field a good team and that place will be packed. Unfortunately for the Pistons, its a big challenge.

[TTime]

Please enlighten me as to how? Don't just throw out blanket statements, show me. How have those three Chicago neighborhoods been completely transformed?

In particular, I was in Logan Square last weekend and I still see homeless littering the streets. Still see empty storefronts next to the hottest restaurants. Don't see any real residential development on a high level. The Latin Kings, Imperial Gangsters and Maniac Latin Disciples still operate throughout the neighborhood. What am I missing?

It would be great if we both still lived there because I would simply ask you to meet me in any, or all 3, of those neighborhoods and a nice walk would do the trick. It would probably be a waste of a nice holiday weekend morning for me to do searches for restaurants, bars and shops in each neighborhood and show you that way. Or I could introduce you to friends of mine who have purchased homes in each of those areas and they could tell you themselves how each place has changed. Our little back and forth is a nice example of how two people can look at the same things and come away with completely different views and experiences.

[illwill]

Downtown Detroit has improved. The problem is that it had a ridiculously huge hole to climb out of. There are more businesses, no doubt, but they're still just trying to save what's left. And we as see with examples like SkyBar Lounge, sometimes a decent bar isn't enough to make a true difference - the David Stott is still in a precarious position, with slum landlords.

Also, Detroit - like many downtowns in big cities - has a vibrancy "handicap" thanks to modernist developments. You might love staring at Minoru Yamasaki's additions to the skyline, but a fat lot of good that does for the pedestrians that don't work in his buildings. The casinos, too, are monolithic and try to suck people out of downtown [[Greektown, anyone?). Hell, the Guardian Building is beautiful, but what does it really do for vibrancy on the street level?

And if there is a successful restaurant or what have you, whoever owns the nearby parking gets greedy and tries to charge an arm and leg [[and, of course, is usually sandwiched between abandoned buildings). Meanwhile, the meter maids are waiting like vultures for you to park at a broken meter. Fun, fun, fun.

One of Detroit's biggest mistakes has been the city's maniacal focus on downtown, fed by delusions of grandeur that seem to assume that SKYSCRAPERS = MANHATTAN!!!! Fact is, as long as the car is king, the days of the entire metropolitan area streaming into downtown to do everything are over. No big city really has that anymore. The real life, the real draw, and the real taxes are the neighborhoods. When you go to Manhattan on vacation, you generally don't go to the central business district at night to get your kicks. You go to a hip neighborhood.

This post pretty much puts things in perspective. If you put Detroit's improvements into context, the city has made leaps and bounds. But we're talking a central business district and Cass Corridor that at one time didn't even have a single McDonald's [[except the failed McD's at Commerica Park), no Starbucks and I could obviously go on. We're making strides but very slow strides. Like nain rouge said, we were NEGATIVE. IN THE HOLE! AT AN UNIMAGINABLE LEVEL. Let's just hope we can sustain long enough to survive, because people who moved to Detroit to give the city a chance are already leaving because it hasn't panned out to what they thought it would be. Or it didn't live up to the media hype. People have decided to relocate to other cities that offer a better functioning urban scene. You only live once and people are choosing to be in a place that's ready made. But to say we haven't made noticeable improvements is a false statement. Is the city "bustling", "vibrant", "buzzing" or "energetic?" No. And far from it. But is it better than a few years back? Yes.

[chicagoforlife]

I've lived in Chicago all my life and Logan Square is the same as it always has been, I was in Logan Square on Friday and there wasn't anything there that impressed me as far as change goes and I'm talking the last 5-10 years. The West Loop has transformed some but not as much as the South Loop, the South Loop is a neighborhood that's changed, there are a lot of high rise apartments and new stores opened up within the last ten years, the CTA also built the transfer tunnel between the elevated Green and Orange Lines to the Red Line in the State Street Subway. The area around Roosevelt and State has changed quite a bit though and there are other areas in the city that have as well but I wouldn't say Logan Square is one of them.

I live in Bridgeport on the Southside and this is one neighborhood that's changed for the better. McKinley Park directly to the west of Bridgeport has changed quite a bit too. These Southside neighborhoods have a low level of crime and don't have the riff raft that most of the Southside has.

But as far as Logan Square, I took the Blue Line there on Friday and was in the neighborhood long enough to see for myself that the neighborhood hasn't changed much. You see homeless people, litter, abandoned storefronts and so on.

[believe14]

Jesus Christ he asked me for some examples not EVERY example.

[stinkytofu]

This post pretty much puts things in perspective. If you put Detroit's improvements into context, the city has made leaps and bounds. But we're talking a central business district and Cass Corridor that at one time didn't even have a single McDonald's [[except the failed McD's at Commerica Park), no Starbucks and I could obviously go on. We're making strides but very slow strides. Like nain rouge said, we were NEGATIVE. IN THE HOLE! AT AN UNIMAGINABLE LEVEL. Let's just hope we can sustain long enough to survive, because people who moved to Detroit to give the city a chance are already leaving because it hasn't panned out to what they thought it would be. Or it didn't live up to the media hype. People have decided to relocate to other cities that offer a better functioning urban scene. You only live once and people are choosing to be in a place that's ready made. But to say we haven't made noticeable improvements is a false statement. Is the city "bustling", "vibrant", "buzzing" or "energetic?" No. And far from it. But is it better than a few years back? Yes.

Great post. We aren't "vibrant", but it is ludicrous to claim downtown isn't better than it was 5, 10, 15 years ago.

[jolla]

I feel the same way. I hate businesses with Detroit in the name that don't actually operate in Detroit.

[jiminnm]

When The Lions move to the Pontiac Silverdome in 1975. Should we called the Pontiac Lions?

No. The suggested name at that time until they drafted Barry Sanders was the Pontiac Pussy Cats.

[davewindsor]

If your lunch meeting two Fridays ago was enough sample size for you to draw that conclusion, then how come actual numbers--real factual information--don't resonate whatsoever? "Seem" means nothing when there is something tangible to back-up the opposite. The fact is there are tens-of-thousands more working and living in Greater Downtown now than there were in 2009. Ask small business owners how their sales have changed for the better. Small property owners who have seen the value of their real estate increase steeply. New residents who find real value in living life in the city. Were any of these people at your lunch meeting two Fridays ago? You care enough to respond with such convictions on a message board, so why not put in the time to actually KNOW and understand this city? Only then will you have an opportunity to support your opinions with something real, or you might actually see a change in those opinions.

You want facts? OK:

It was announced last week that the City of Detroit lost another 10,000 people in the Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/2014052...sus-population

Those are not the poor leaving. The poor don't have the money to leave; they're stuck!

If small business owners are changing for the better, why was Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe in midtown complaining sales were down 60% before shutting their doors after 16 months in operation?? If there are more city workers, that means the pie should be bigger and one competing business opening up down the street--Whole Foods--shouldn't have wiped them out. But, they were complaining about vandalism and theft before Whole Foods opened about [[about $30K dollars worth within the first few months of opening up).

Office vacancies are down, but how many office skyscrapers were taken off the grid in the past few years like the David Stott Tower and the glorious Book Building??

I don't know if real estate prices went up or just more crazy land speculators moved into the city buying up everything on speculation. So have those Chinese speculators done any work on the long vacant Free Press Building yet??

Oh ya, I heard Matty's finally got tenants for the MCS since the city's doing so well. NOT.

If property values goes up, but the population keeps going down, that's people buying up empty property on speculation.

The biggest problem with the city is the CITY INCOME TAXES. Let's go to the Pistons. Josh Smith makes $13.5m a year as the Piston's Forward. If he lived in Indian Village and the Pistons were in downtown, that would mean he pays 2.4% times $13m = $324,000 a year in city income taxes. WTF?! In Auburn Hills, you don't pay city income taxes. Plus in Auburn Hills if he owns a huge mansion, he can write off his home mortgage interest through the Home Mortgage Interest deduction through his income taxes, but the 2.4% doesn't even apply to that deduction if he lived in Detroit--it goes straight to Detroit's corrupt coffers. This city keeps screwing itself up with city income taxes. It's irrational for anyone with a lot of money to want to live in the city unless they are forced by their job on the whims on someone trying to increase the equity of their real estate holdings or the government made them do it.

The Pistons should stay in Auburn Hills to protest the city income taxes. Maybe they should even change their name to Auburn Hill Gores since the Pistons were named after the previous owner Zollner Pistons.

The City of Detroit will always suck as long as they keep those city income taxes that most of metro suburbanites do not have. The City of Detroit has no one to blame but itself.

[believe14]

Most of the "speculators" in Detroit are flim-flam clowns. The hype machine tried to fabricate that all of these Chinese investors were coming in... but it turned out to be all lies. Buffett and the major investment banks are buying housing stock around the country, but nothing in Detroit. Wonder why...

[Bham1982]

Plus in Auburn Hills if he owns a huge mansion, he can write off his home mortgage interest through the Home Mortgage Interest deduction through his income taxes, but the 2.4% doesn't even apply to that deduction if he lived in Detroit--it goes straight to Detroit's corrupt coffers.

Mortgage interest deduction starts phasing out at a pretty low income threshold. No one making 13.5 should be deducting interest [[no one should be taking out a mortgage either at that level, but whatever).

[That Great Guy]

It's time to annex all of Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties together into one city and call it DETROIT.

It is the fare solution to solve many problems. Everyone can Win by everyone working together.

[stasu1213]

I do remember Illitch wanted to buy the Pistons. I wonder what would had happened had he. Would he had brought the team downtown instead of Goras just keeping the team further North

[eliboyer]

It would be great if we both still lived there because I would simply ask you to meet me in any, or all 3, of those neighborhoods and a nice walk would do the trick. It would probably be a waste of a nice holiday weekend morning for me to do searches for restaurants, bars and shops in each neighborhood and show you that way. Or I could introduce you to friends of mine who have purchased homes in each of those areas and they could tell you themselves how each place has changed. Our little back and forth is a nice example of how two people can look at the same things and come away with completely different views and experiences.

My original response was to a poster referring to Logan Square, Ukrainian Village & West Loop as "COMPLETELY transformed". He used the caps-lock, not me. A few of my friends have purchased homes in West Village, Boston Edison & Corktown, and although they would attest to changes as well, nobody would come close to calling them completely transformed. Ukrainian Village and Logan Square have much more in common with these neighborhoods than you might think.