State House's Detroit Bailout Bill Would Block DIA from Seeking Millage Funding

[believe14]

I have never heard of the DIA as some region "selling point" until the place was about to be looted in bankruptcy. Maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I didn't even know people went there much anymore. Last time I was there it felt a couple of decades behind museums in other major US cities. And the last few MOSAIC youth plays we saw there were so unnecessarily and aggressively "hate whitey" that we vowed never to return.

[Gistok]

I have never heard of the DIA as some region "selling point" until the place was about to be looted in bankruptcy. Maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I didn't even know people went there much anymore. Last time I was there it felt a couple of decades behind museums in other major US cities. And the last few MOSAIC youth plays we saw there were so unnecessarily and aggressively "hate whitey" that we vowed never to return.

Just how far out of town do you live? If you've not been there in recent years, you've not seen the hundreds of millions spent on upgrades and expansions. It is NOT decades behind other museums... in fact it's new interactive features are the talk of the museum trade. "Hate whitey"??? You must be talking about another museum... Never got that impression at all... And when I last went last fall... the place was SWARMING with people.

[Mark Smiles]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...al-DIA-millage

Rep. Ken Goike, R-Ray Township, sponsored the bill to prevent the DIA from seeking voter approval from voters in Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties to extend its 0.2-mill property tax after it expires in 2022.
Goike said his northern Macomb County voters largely rejected the DIA millage and should get a property tax break for aiding city pensioners in Detroit’s bankruptcy.
“The taxpayers in my district deserve some relief,” Goike said on the House floor.


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz32TB2yme5

Well what sits smack dab in the middle of his district? A Huron Clinton Metropark. A tri-county subsidized park. I guess people in areas not near a HCMA park should pay for a park in his community but they can't pay for the DIA.

Yep disagreement on how public funds should be spent = hatred.

I supported the DIA's Founders Society, until they went for the taxpayers wallet.

[Goose]

I have never heard of the DIA as some region "selling point" until the place was about to be looted in bankruptcy. Maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I didn't even know people went there much anymore. Last time I was there it felt a couple of decades behind museums in other major US cities. And the last few MOSAIC youth plays we saw there were so unnecessarily and aggressively "hate whitey" that we vowed never to return.

although there is no way to test this, I would bet that if you openly asked every tax paying Detroiter for five reasons why they chose to live in Detroit, the DIA would amount to less than 1% of their answers.... likewise, if you polled every taypaying person living within 50 miles of the DIA, the answer would again be less than 1%...... its tax funding for something that very few appreciate or care about......

[believe14]

Just how far out of town do you live? If you've not been there in recent years, you've not seen the hundreds of millions spent on upgrades and expansions. It is NOT decades behind other museums... in fact it's new interactive features are the talk of the museum trade. "Hate whitey"??? You must be talking about another museum... Never got that impression at all... And when I last went last fall... the place was SWARMING with people.

30 min. My parents took us when we were children all of the time. Going as an adult, with life experience and global travel, the place now feels incredibly unsophisticated. And I'm not BSing about the racial tones of the last few plays. It was a bit much.

[believe14]

although there is no way to test this, I would bet that if you openly asked every tax paying Detroiter for five reasons why they chose to live in Detroit, the DIA would amount to less than 1% of their answers.... likewise, if you polled every taypaying person living within 50 miles of the DIA, the answer would again be less than 1%...... its tax funding for something that very few appreciate or care about......

Maybe the user Bham is more in tune with what parents are doing in affluent burbs these days. Back when I was a kid perhaps it was a draw, because I was taken down there once a month. But in 2014 are GP and Bham families heading down there much?

[unclefrank]

If you love art so much, then pay to enjoy it instead of picking my pocket.

[poobert]

Maybe the user Bham is more in tune with what parents are doing in affluent burbs these days. Back when I was a kid perhaps it was a draw, because I was taken down there once a month. But in 2014 are GP and Bham families heading down there much?

The place is packed on Friday evenings. Of course if you don't go, then nobody else must.

Bham is all hot air and hyperbole. He doesn't know what the blue bloods are doing by any means. He's a grubby renter, for Chrissake. Anybody with a handful of section 8 vouchers could rent anywhere in the Metro area.

[compn]

since it became 'free' for wayne oakland and macomb county residents, the dia has been packed.
i think a lot more people have gone these last years compared to previous decade, i dont have stats to back it up of course.

but i agree, the DIA isnt much upto the high standards of other museums. they should print out the wikipedia articles on each piece and tape them to the wall. what good is a 'name/artist/year/country' plaque in THIS day and age of information and internets? an intern printing wikipedia and taping it up wouldnt cost much and would improve the displays immensely.

of course this isnt limited to the dia museum displays, even the travelling collection/exhibits are sparse on info.

[Bham1982]

Maybe the user Bham is more in tune with what parents are doing in affluent burbs these days. Back when I was a kid perhaps it was a draw, because I was taken down there once a month. But in 2014 are GP and Bham families heading down there much?

I like the DIA, and go a few times a year. It always seems pretty well-attended to me, and the collection is strong. It isn't exactly the Met or something, but it's still a great museum [[probably like Top 10 or Top 15 nationally). I think it looks better now than at any point in my lifetime.

I don't support the regional tax, though. It isn't a critical regional priority, IMO. The wealth in the region is still enough to keep it going, and nothing wrong with charging $10 [[a movie ticket) for admission.

[Honky Tonk]

The quality of "high culture" amenities has almost nothing to do with local population and economic trends.

The fastest growing parts of the country tend to have crappy high culture. There are no great art collections or symphonies in the Phoenixes and Tampas and San Diegos and Vegases of the world.

I support the DIA, but it's reasonable to ask why the entire region should be forced to pay for the instution. It's an arguable point, where reasonable people can disagree.

I agree, though, that if you support a regional tax for the zoo, then you should probably support one for the art museum too. The Metroparks tax is slightly different, as they were established as a regional authority from the beginning.

The milage for the DIA was voted on and passed. A better question would be why should the the taxpayers be forced to pay for a billionare's stadium, no vote.

[ABetterDetroit]

I'm on the opposite end as these are all quality of life institutions and total less than 1 Mil. Someone with a 300k home will pay less than 12/month. Someone with a 100K home will pay less than 4/month.

We take these away and there is less reason to live here.

But.....at least you're consistent which is all I ask from these exurb and rural reps. I'm fine if you don't support any or if you support all but don't pick which ones should be supported and which should not.

When you have decided to tax housing for whatever reason remember renters pay MORE because all rental property is non homestead property so the tax rate is even higher. Do you think that landlords pick up that bill out of the kindness of their heart? I call out the sins of both parties and on property taxes the Dems have done a fantastic job of convincing the working poor that only the folks in 6 figure houses will pay this tax while the reality is the renters pay the same tax at a higher rate.

[BankruptcyGuy]

The milage for the DIA was voted on and passed.

As I understand it, the are serious doubts that a tax in the public to support a private art collection is lawful. The law is general; it applies to all non-municipally owned art collections.

[Thruster315]

since it became 'free' for wayne oakland and macomb county residents, the dia has been packed.
i think a lot more people have gone these last years compared to previous decade, i dont have stats to back it up of course.

but i agree, the DIA isnt much upto the high standards of other museums. they should print out the wikipedia articles on each piece and tape them to the wall. what good is a 'name/artist/year/country' plaque in THIS day and age of information and internets? an intern printing wikipedia and taping it up wouldnt cost much and would improve the displays immensely.

of course this isnt limited to the dia museum displays, even the travelling collection/exhibits are sparse on info.

What other museums do you go to that have hand holding sessions or explain every bit of minutia to you? What are some of those other "high standards" you speak of at these other museums?

Within the last year I've been to the MET & MoMA in New York City, the Getty & LACMA in Los Angeles and haven't noticed any sort of super informative things that I got from their exhibits. And even with the DIA's latest Samurai exhibit, I got the headsets that explained quite a bit of information about the exhibits.

So could you please explain to us what sort of information you'd like or think that the DIA is lacking in? I guess there's a part of me that also likes going to experience the art first hand without any pre-conceptions about the artist or the piece. If I like it or find it appealing in some way, the burden falls on me to do more research.

The DIA also offers really informative guided tours if one also wants to know more about the art if one truly wants to know more. I've coat tailed a few of those as they've gone around and learned quite a bit. But to say the DIA is lacking with information? I'm not seeing it.

[Thruster315]

30 min. My parents took us when we were children all of the time. Going as an adult, with life experience and global travel, the place now feels incredibly unsophisticated. And I'm not BSing about the racial tones of the last few plays. It was a bit much.

"Last few plays"???

And if you're also going to call out the racial tones card, could you be more specific? What did you experience that made you feel threatened or uncomfortable? Let's start the conversation on how to remedy that if it's truly what you felt there.

[believe14]

"Last few plays"???

And if you're also going to call out the racial tones card, could you be more specific? What did you experience that made you feel threatened or uncomfortable? Let's start the conversation on how to remedy that if it's truly what you felt there.

I don't have to spell it out for you. Look no further than your current city council if you don't believe Detroit is still very much a race hustling, blame every problem on whitey city. I assume MOSAIC is merely another outlet of those undertones expressed throughout the city, the schools and the barbershops.

[jt1]

When you have decided to tax housing for whatever reason remember renters pay MORE because all rental property is non homestead property so the tax rate is even higher. Do you think that landlords pick up that bill out of the kindness of their heart? I call out the sins of both parties and on property taxes the Dems have done a fantastic job of convincing the working poor that only the folks in 6 figure houses will pay this tax while the reality is the renters pay the same tax at a higher rate.

Non homestead does not change the mill rate for this. Your argument makes no sense

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think that we should remember that just because this man proposed this bill [[which, by the way, is hypocritical more than it is ironic) does not mean that it will pass and be signed into law. You would be amazed at how many stupid and lifeless bills are proposed every year.

I am a member of the DIA and I suspect i will support the continuation of the regional subsidy when it expires in 8 years. But, like all public spending, the DIA millage should be judged by its results, with transparent and responsible financials for the public to consider, and the economics of 2022 taken into account. I also strenuously oppose the use of the tax subsidy to displace the need to fundraise. The DIA should be out there looking for ways to fundraise and find sponsorships. Wholeheartedly describes my support for the DIA; blindly does not.

[Ltdave]

sorry guys...

ive never voted for a democrat but i fully support the DIA. i dont live in the tri-county area but drive down a couple of times a year and more if theres an interesting exhibit going on...

as far as not knowing what "world class" is, i must be the only republican [[voting) person here then. ive been to several big museums in europe including the Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek in Copenhagen and the Louvre in Paris...

NEITHER are as good as the DIA...

[Bham1982]

ive been to several big museums in europe including the Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek in Copenhagen and the Louvre in Paris...

NEITHER are as good as the DIA...

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but comparing the DIA to the Louvre, the world's largest and most visited museum, home to Mona Lisa, Venus de Milo, Code of Hammurabi, etc. is a bit of homerism, I would say...

[Thruster315]

I don't have to spell it out for you. Look no further than your current city council if you don't believe Detroit is still very much a race hustling, blame every problem on whitey city. I assume MOSAIC is merely another outlet of those undertones expressed throughout the city, the schools and the barbershops.

I didn't ask you about City Council. I didn't mention MOSAIC.

I asked about YOUR experience at the DIA and how you felt racially slighted. All I wanted was clarity on your situation. And all you do is throw up all of these other things to answer it? I'm not denying any of those other things you claim but how were they even remotely tied into what you encountered at the DIA on your last visit??

I just want to know what happened to you at the DIA. Did I ask that difficult of a question to the point you have to deflect answering it?

[313WX]

I don't have to spell it out for you. Look no further than your current city council if you don't believe Detroit is still very much a race hustling, blame every problem on whitey city. I assume MOSAIC is merely another outlet of those undertones expressed throughout the city, the schools and the barbershops.

You do know the Mosaic Youth Theatre was founded and is run entirely by white people who most likely live in places like Auburn Hills, Canton and Shelby Township, yes?

The plays are also written and directed by them.

http://www.mosaicdetroit.org/about-staff-sperling.htm

If we're going to bitch about something, at least have our facts straight.

[EastsideAl]

And the last few MOSAIC youth plays we saw there were so unnecessarily and aggressively "hate whitey" that we vowed never to return.

Mosaic Youth Theater uses the DIA's theater but is not part of the DIA or under the DIA's administration.

[swingline]

If you love art so much, then pay to enjoy it instead of picking my pocket.

Sadly, this kind of uninformed, hypocritical objection to regional taxes for assets such as museums and mass transit is ubiquitous around here.

Presumably, unclefrank, as an active user of Michigan roads, has no objection to paying $.25/gal. extra to fix the potholes. http://www.freep.com/article/20140521/NEWS06/305210117/ It's also likely that he protested loudly several years ago when the Medicare Part D entitlement was created by Pres. Bush exclusively for our seniors and paid for out of non-seniors' pockets, right? Can we also be confident that his views include an objection to the idea that childless households are obligated to pay school taxes? If you ain't got kids, why should you have to pay a dime for those lazy overpaid school teachers?

An "I should only have to pay for what I use" taxpayer attitude, if implemented through actual tax policy, is ignorant and unworkable. Regions and states that attempt to follow that route are brain-drained economic backwaters.

[EastsideAl]

This is really revolting after all the work that was put in clearing the extremely high hurdle to pass this millage in all 3 counties. If Rep. Goike is actually so concerned about the "voice" of his northern Macomb County constituents, then perhaps he should be trying to pass a measure to split his jerkwater part of the county away from the rest. Instead of leveraging his fellow back-country, city-hating, knuckle-dragging, outstate mudhole ignoramus legislators in Lansing to undo what the voters of this area - including his own county - did legitimately through the democratic process at no cost to them.