"white folks created the ghetto": racist housing policy in chicago, detroit also?

[Wesley Mouch]

You do realize even though your ancestors weren't plantation owners, you've still benefited from being a part of the majority class?

And nobody thinks Indians are the model minority in Dubai and **** where the Indian immigrants are indentured servants working construction. The model minority theory is just something racists like to use to tell themselves that it's black people's[[or the Algerians, or the South Asians, or the Turks, or whatever despised group is in your locale) own fault that they are poor because wink wink nudge nudge genetic inferiority.

I always love how black behavior apologists stereotype white people because they share skin tone with plantation owners. Why is it so important for white people to be racists? And thanks to plantation owner President Jefferson for making a great country before my ancestors came here.

As to the 'model minority theory'... I think its inappropriate to apply to African Americans today. The AA community is simply too diverse to lump into a box -- much as the apologists lump whites. Specifically, the giant urban black underclass fostered by the liberal dependency oppression system skews the results and I believe hides African American success.

[Kevgoblue]

Spot on. It doesn't take a genius to see what Gary, South Chicago, Benton Harbor, Detroit and Flint have in common; concentrated unfit former southern migrants who repeat the same dysfunctional behavior generation after generation. Nobody wants to see people down. There's no conspiracy. There's no system wide racism. We want people to function. We want people to contribute to the economy. Not on the public dole from cradle to the grave, committing crimes and lowering property values.

Interesting analysis. I saw the above mentioned cities as old, rust belt, manufacturing citites. Cities that were thriving during our periods of industrial growth. Cities that attracted the poor southerners, who wanted to go somewehere where they could find a job to work and support their families.
Problem was that there got to be more unskilled workers than there were jobs to be filled.

[NoHeartAnthony]

Learn to read better. Sharing the same skin color =! having the same thoughts. Sharing the same skin color = benefiting from being in a ruling class.

[erikd]

I totally agree. My family wasn't in this country during the slave era and I have nothing to do with slavery so don't go pointing fingers at me to feel sorry. Its funny though that Nigerians come to this country who are dirt poor and go to school and become doctors etc... in a pretty high percentage and none of them cry racism and the white man kept my people down in 1855. If Nigerians can come to this country and be black and speak broken English and still be successful, no excuse for a black person born in this country to be a complete loser unless they want to be a complete loser. My Nigerian co-workers always mention how blacks in Detroit have school at their fingertips and just blow it. If you want a hard life, go to Nigeria.

I used to feel the same way as you do. My family wasn't here during the slave era, and when my ancestors came here, they were northerners. They weren't racists who were going around beating up and lynching black people who dared to show up at the polls. My grandparents weren't firebombing black churches and burning crosses. My family wasn't in the KKK. They were Catholic, and the Klan hated them too.

I think that this whole discussion needs to be framed differently. Talking about white privilege or 400 years of slavery and oppression puts people into a defensive mindset, and fails to create any type of constructive dialogue.

Forget about white privilege or slavery. Let's just focus on what has happened during the lifetimes of the Baby Boomers. This isn't ancient history. The stuff that happened during the 50s and 60s still has a big impact on the lives of tens of millions of Americans to this day.

We are all familiar with the overt racism, violence, and oppression that was commonplace in many American communities during the 1960s. To be sure, most people did not perpetrate those crimes, or even condone them, but enough did. Even when the murderers were clearly guilty of killing black people in cold blood, all-white juries would refuse to convict.

This wasn't 400 years ago, or 150 years ago. It was 50 years ago, and it was common in many places in America, especially the south, and it was part of a systemic practice of brutal racial oppression that continued unbroken for hundreds of years, from the first slave shipment into the modern day.

Not all white people are guilty or responsible for these atrocities, and in fact, many white people were instrumental in fighting for black equality and justice, but we can't just act like it didn't happen or that the effects don't still linger to this day.

Forget about assigning blame. Let's just be real and admit that it still has an impact on American society to this day.

[erikd]

For the posters on this thread who think that anti-black racism is imagined or a thing of the past, just take a few moments and look at the comments on this thread:


"White people feared unfit southern blacks, who came north with no skills, no education, no work ethic and lacking social norms. Southern trash didn't work, committed crimes and destroyed their neighborhoods."


"The dole is another form of slavery."


"It wasn't the realtors that created the system. It was the welfare-entitlement complex that was the real problem."


"Why is everyone ignoring the black crime, illiteracy and single parent rate epidemics? Nobody wants to live by unfit people, regardless of race. Obviously and unfortunately racism occurred when scared whites viewed any and all blacks like the unfit ones... You go do a case study on the current unfit in Detroit. I will guarantee you most of them haven't had a full time employed parent or grand parent in their family tree, going all the way back to Mississippi or Alabama. You're talking three and four generations of unfit people."


"It's just sad to see folks act like there is some conspiracy to keep black people down. Please tell me how Asians, Cubans and Nigerians are doing so well in this country. Nobody wants to keep black people down. People that exhibit socially unfit behavior generation after generation are doomed. Schools can't help, government handouts won't help."


"Oh by the way europe and Middle East also have ghettos. So does South America, I guess black wants people to feel sorry for them I don't , live in the present not the past."


"a lot of the American thought the same of new arrivals and aa, shyt my dad was more worried about polish than aa, when he came over, he lived around hamtramck which was a polish enclave, and they did not like outsiders, they harassed the new arrivals, my mom was harassed by aa on the bus, even getting in fist fights, just because she was a immigrant, the only difference is they didn't sit around and bitch about, they worked saved money bought cars and homes, penny I pinched in the process, because they didn't wanna go back were they came from, more immigrants came in the 70s from the area country my parents are from, they fought back, made something of themselves, no one gave them shyt, no foodstamps , no fkn welfare, the problem is we give people rewards for being lazy, and working the system, that's the problem"


"There is a pathology in the black, urban ghettos. Its denial is one of the great shames of African American society. This denial has and is preventing solutions."


"I find it odd that some here shout loudly about how racist the world is -- and how deeply in denial whites are about race. I see the denial of the root causes in a similar way. I don't know why we all can't accept that the urban ghettos are unacceptable -- and they are not the products of racism. Racism exists. And it is a problem. But its nowhere near the root cause of our urban ghetto problems."


"It doesn't take a genius to see what Gary, South Chicago, Benton Harbor, Detroit and Flint have in common; concentrated unfit former southern migrants who repeat the same dysfunctional behavior generation after generation. Nobody wants to see people down. There's no conspiracy. There's no system wide racism. We want people to function. We want people to contribute to the economy. Not on the public dole from cradle to the grave, committing crimes and lowering property values."


"It's not like they ain't trying. Their doing everything they can short of giving houses out "Free". If they did, would neighborhoods get all spiffed up and kept that way by the happy campers? You can lead a horse to water, can you make him drink?"


"There is a big denial in the black urban community. Education is not used as a vehicle to move ahead. You don't know how damn lucky we are in this country to have free education up until 12th grade and then anyone can go to college. There are community colleges, various grants, loans etc... Again no excuse. So many chances given to everyone in this country and people would rather just throw it away. Also, enough with all the "White racists" on this board. There are just as many and if not more black racists out there. Racism isn't a 1 way street. Too many threads in here act like the white man is keeping Detroit down and its my fault over slavery when my family hasn't been in this country 50 years."


"I always love how black behavior apologists stereotype white people because they share skin tone with plantation owners. Why is it so important for white people to be racists? And thanks to plantation owner President Jefferson for making a great country before my ancestors came here."
----------------------------------------------------------

Try to imagine what it must be like to hear people say these things about you, your family, and your community, every day of your entire life. How would that make you feel?

Just for a moment, stop and think about how this constant negative talk affects the children around you, and how it promotes and reinforces negative stereotypes of black people as lazy and shiftless, unlike all other people, who are considered to be basically good and hardworking.

Can you honestly say that this incessant anti-black talk doesn't affect how black people are treated by their fellow Americans? Can you honestly say that employers, insurance agents, realtors, police, judges, politicians, and others aren't affected by this mindset? If the default mindset is that most blacks are lazy, shiftless, and dysfunctional, then every black person has to constantly try to prove that they are "one of the good ones." This is a burden that most other Americans never have to even think about, because we are considered to be good upstanding citizens until proven otherwise.

Don't take my word for it, just read what you wrote.

[Zacha341]

Um, I've read your posts and I do feel that there is an increasing class shift in Detroit, for many reasons.

IMO, you dug yourself a deep hole [[smile) with the 'landscaper's kids' comment; allowing for ambiguity as grace, perhaps. I know a few landscapers in Detroit, some working in that business, one owning a private landscaping/ snow removal company -- hard working and middle class. The landscaping company owns several properties in Detroit, paying tremendous taxes, employing several men and women - who in turn are ambitious and hard working.

Per your statement, are you saying that landscapers as individuals or that industry are default marginal or additional 'unfit' folk you'd ironically not see sent for Detroit Public Schools?

Or are you saying affectionately that you'd not want them in DPS? Please clarify.

....The city was being taken over by an unfit majority, nobody wanted their families around. Who the hell can blame them? I wouldn't send my landscaper's kids to Detroit Public Schools. I suppose other Michigan cities like Flint, Saginaw and Benton Harbor have the same "man" keeping everyone down in 2014 too, huh? Please stop.

I want the region to prosper just as much as you, but until people stop trying to deflect blame and accountability, nobody is going to give the region another chance.

[Zacha341]

The welfare state has impacted the black community at many levels. I've seen it in my family. The main impact and fall-out is the jettisoning of fathers from the home [[welfare required the father not be in the home for maximum benefits) making the state ostensibly: 'daddy'.

We now have that dysfunction at the generation level.

Self-responsibility, or absence therein, is in how the system was accommodated -- by those who needed or used it -- with or without foresight of the larger politic to know what was coming.

When the government becomes long-term 'dad' and, or 'husband', 'parent' as we see within and beyond the black community, the fix is in. At some point the bill will be due, and here we are.

The 'dems give stuff vs. repubs take stuff' while a factor somewhat, is but the brightly colored checkers moving across the board of political endorsement: easy access debate.

There's a deeper chess level game here of power brokering, management, and CONTROL -- allowed and required -- that has ultimately OVER-PROMISED!

Of course, the idea that social welfare programs created the ghettos is nonsense. There were plenty of ghettos in the US, including in Detroit, before there were significant social welfare programs. It was, in fact, the realtors, and the FHA, and pervasive discrimination against non-whites.

Well-intentioned government policy = a permanent ghetto. We need to find a better social safety net. One that doesn't reward sloth.

[Zacha341]

I agree 110%! That is why the comments are so varied on this topic.

As to the original topic of creating ghettos, I'm sure there's a lot of blame to pass around.

[Dan Wesson]

I agree 110%! That is why the comments are so varied on this topic.

Yes, there is a kernel of truth of in every paragraph erikd copies/pastes and in what he writes as well.

It's all the bad apples in the barrel that brings this about.

So what's the solution?

Banning free speech? A PC Band-Aid.

Culling the herd? Of all offenders, of all races. Certainly Non PC, although, there is Biblical precedent... A number of times.

[rb336]

I always wondered if geography makes a difference. In Detroit, "white" and "black" neighborhoods were separated by streets. In Chicago, they were separated by the river and an industrial zone. You essentially had, from north to south, Wealthy white people, middle class, the loop, working class white people, the south canal,industrial, black neighborhoods. Is that separation the reason Chicago has more of a "safe for tourists" reputation, even though it's violence levels are not that different from Detroit? I've noticed that national news always makes a South Side comment about Chicago, but never makes such distinctions about Detroit.