M-1 to break ground this summer

[ghettopalmetto]

Because those improvements are extremely important for mobility for almost everyone in SE Michigan, as well as the critically important shipping/logistics industry. I would spend $10 billion on roads in Michigan before spending one cent on the Gilbertville Trolley.

So what about the "mobility" of City of Detroit residents, many of whom spend in excess of 2 hours each way commuting to a job in the suburbs [[IF the buses are running)? Does their "mobility" not matter?

Or is "mobility" just some sort of Michigan buzzword that means "Driving All Over Kingdom Come"?

Christ on Toast. Then people actually have the gall to compare Detroit to Cleveland. Hell--Cleveland has a decent, reliable transit system with a dedicated source of funding. The biggest complaint of RTA [[that I've heard) is that it isn't as extensive as it needs to be. By comparison, Detroit should be in the Deep South--nobody wants to invest a nickel in anything, unless it's a tax cut or massive highway project that'll bankrupt the budget for generations to come.

[believe14]

And your comparison is so absurd as to not warrant a response. Why not compare Detroit to NYC, London, Paris and Tokyo while you're at it?

Just more of the constant stream of bullshit from deluded Detroiters desperately insisting Detroit is something other than it is.

[dtowncitylover]

I would spend $10 billion on roads in Michigan before spending one cent on the Gilbertville Trolley.

And that my friends is [[Metro) Detroit, Michigan, USA, Earth in a nutshell. Let's spend $10 billion on roads before doing anything about transit. While the rest of the world blazes into the 21st century creating mass transit and liveable urban communities, we waste away continuing to believe the automobile is the future.

That should not be a prideful comment. It's pathetic. We spend all this money on roads but somehow we can't spend the same on transit because, and this is the answer I got once, road funding can't be used for transit funding. WELL MAKE IT BE ALLOWED FOR TRANSIT FUNDING.


This "trolly" isn't perfect. But it's sad that it's the business community had to be the one to initially fund and support this. I hope one day, Detroit is full of buses, trams, and commuter rail, connecting east to west and north to south and all points in between. But this is Detroit and we move at a snail's pace.

[believe14]

So what about the "mobility" of City of Detroit residents, many of whom spend in excess of 2 hours each way commuting to a job in the suburbs [[IF the buses are running)? Does their "mobility" not matter?

Those people don't exist outside of your imagination.

[dtowncitylover]

Those people don't exist outside of your imagination.

You just showed how incredibly ignorant you actually are. Wow. Those people definitely exist. I don't like anecdotes, but I used to work for Target at Maple/Coolidge many years ago and a coworker lived on the city's far east side and she would take the bus all the way to Target just to work. I took her 7 Mile and Woodward once just so she could shave an hour off her cold [[it was Christmas time) commute that night.

It's so sad to see people living in these bubbles and not realizing how the other half lives.

[Bham1982]

It's so sad to see people living in these bubbles and not realizing how the other half lives.

And it's more sad that some don't realize that the Gilbertville Trolley will do nothing to serve such transit riders, who need improved bus service, better roads, and a better economy.

[Bham1982]

So what about the "mobility" of City of Detroit residents, many of whom spend in excess of 2 hours each way commuting to a job in the suburbs [[IF the buses are running)? Does their "mobility" not matter?

Considering that 100% of Detroit households use roads, or otherwise benefit from roads [[even a homebound recluse would need stuff), I would say that their mobility is being served just as well as in any other city [[probably more, because Detroit has so many freeways).

Christ on Toast. Then people actually have the gall to compare Detroit to Cleveland. Hell--Cleveland has a decent, reliable transit system with a dedicated source of funding.

And Metro Detroit has a better economy and population growth than Metro Cleveland.

[dtowncitylover]

And it's more sad that some don't realize that the Gilbertville Trolley will do nothing to serve such transit riders, who need improved bus service, better roads, and a better economy.

No it's not more sad. Because we do realize we need improvement of these areas along with better transit options. But we already have bus service, we already have roads, and we already have an economy. The latter of which can greatly benefit from this kind of transit. We don't have true mass transit, which trams can be a part of.

Bus service has always been a top issue for Mayor Duggan. Road funding is a top priority in Lansing right now. It's not like they're being ignored.

[believe14]

You just showed how incredibly ignorant you actually are. Wow. Those people definitely exist. I don't like anecdotes, but I used to work for Target at Maple/Coolidge many years ago and a coworker lived on the city's far east side and she would take the bus all the way to Target just to work. I took her 7 Mile and Woodward once just so she could shave an hour off her cold [[it was Christmas time) commute that night.

It's so sad to see people living in these bubbles and not realizing how the other half lives.

Keep fighting the good fight, man. I'm sure the phantom minimum wage workers in Detroit who take 4 hours RT to get to work will really appreciate your efforts when Detroit gets a complete transit makeover in 2000-never. If you want transit move to Chicago. It's three hours away. Nobody is forcing you to put up with what you see is regional dysfunction. Complaining about this doesn't solve anything. The city has been chaotic and dysfunctional for 60 years... did you expect some metropolis when you moved to the D? You want something the region doesn't have and the region won't be building anytime soon. If it's so important to you why aren't you already in Chicago or DC? Never understood people who waste their life somewhere that doesn't fit their needs, waiting around praying those changes happen. Tick tock. One life to live, old sport.

[bailey]

You just showed how incredibly ignorant you actually are. Wow. Those people definitely exist. I don't like anecdotes, but I used to work for Target at Maple/Coolidge many years ago and a coworker lived on the city's far east side and she would take the bus all the way to Target just to work. I took her 7 Mile and Woodward once just so she could shave an hour off her cold [[it was Christmas time) commute that night.

It's so sad to see people living in these bubbles and not realizing how the other half lives.

Yes, it is. And you're in it. Nothing.. not one thing... about her commute is going to change after the trolley is up and running. There is no RTA, there will still be two incongruous bus systems and apparently a third one for the SexyBuses[[tm). . The trolley is not anything approaching a fix. THAT is the point. On its best day, it's a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

[ghettopalmetto]

Considering that 100% of Detroit households use roads, or otherwise benefit from roads [[even a homebound recluse would need stuff), I would say that their mobility is being served just as well as in any other city [[probably more, because Detroit has so many freeways).


And Metro Detroit has a better economy and population growth than Metro Cleveland.

That and a $5 bill will get you a cup of coffee in Birmingham. Whoopdeedoo.

[chicagoforlife]

I never questioned it's efficiency. But it's not exactly fun to ride the el twice a day. Popping down from the northern burbs to catch a cubs game? Sure. But everybody I know buys a car when they make some scratch and 86 the daily el usage. And Uber made taking the el for nightlife a thing of the past.

I would never go to a Cubs game, I can't stand them lol, I'm a Sox fan but anyways, it's convenient to use the L to get to Wrigley, why? Because parking around Wrigley isn't only costly, there is nowhere to park. And driving your car downtown everyday will cost you a lot of money to park, you might get lucky and get an early bird garage for like $18 all day parking but most of the garages charge $25-30 a day if not more.

Here's a good example, the Blue Line which runs down the Kennedy from O'Hare through downtown and out to Forest Park has a park and ride lot at the Rosemont, Cumberland, Harlem [[O'Hare branch) and Forest Park stations. I've used the Cumberland station a few times for all day parking and it costs about $8 to park there for 15 hours. I don't need to worry about fare because I have a monthly unlimited card for the CTA. The monthly CTA card costs $100 so in about four days you could have made up that $100 vs. parking downtown and you still have the rest of the month to go and the only other charge would be the money it costs to park in the park and ride lot which isn't much.

It's also cheaper to not have a car, you don't have the high insurance rates or high gas prices to deal with. I do have a car but I don't use it if I don't have to and used an address in DuPage County to get cheaper insurance rates lol, but that's just using my parents address.

[believe14]

Literally everyone I know has a car in Chicago. Some didn't when they had student loans to pay off. But as soon as they made some scratch they got a Jetta or Audi. My bosses aren't riding the el to work, I assure you. They might take the fam to a Cubs game via el twice a summer but that's the extent of the el usage.

[ghettopalmetto]

I would never go to a Cubs game, I can't stand them lol, I'm a Sox fan but anyways, it's convenient to use the L to get to Wrigley, why? Because parking around Wrigley isn't only costly, there is nowhere to park. And driving your car downtown everyday will cost you a lot of money to park, you might get lucky and get an early bird garage for like $18 all day parking but most of the garages charge $25-30 a day if not more.

Here's a good example, the Blue Line which runs down the Kennedy from O'Hare through downtown and out to Forest Park has a park and ride lot at the Rosemont, Cumberland, Harlem [[O'Hare branch) and Forest Park stations. I've used the Cumberland station a few times for all day parking and it costs about $8 to park there for 15 hours. I don't need to worry about fare because I have a monthly unlimited card for the CTA. The monthly CTA card costs $100 so in about four days you could have made up that $100 vs. parking downtown and you still have the rest of the month to go and the only other charge would be the money it costs to park in the park and ride lot which isn't much.

It's also cheaper to not have a car, you don't have the high insurance rates or high gas prices to deal with. I do have a car but I don't use it if I don't have to and used an address in DuPage County to get cheaper insurance rates lol, but that's just using my parents address.

No. Wrong. Everyone knows it's cheaper and easier to use Uber for everything. Which should only cost about $400/mo for a Detroit resident to commute from Midtown to Downtown each workday. For a couple hundred dollars more a month, you can use Uber to visit family, have a social life, go to church and the doctor, and get to the grocery store.

And really. What's $600 a month to your average Detroit resident? That's just a drop in the bucket in Birmingham!

[dtowncitylover]

Yes, it is. And you're in it. Nothing.. not one thing... about her commute is going to change after the trolley is up and running. There is no RTA, there will still be two incongruous bus systems and apparently a third one for the SexyBuses[[tm). . The trolley is not anything approaching a fix. THAT is the point. On its best day, it's a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

You're totally right! But this isn't a gunshot wound. Our transit problem is a cancer. And to cure cancer in this region, takes alot of steps.

This is the first chemo treatment, and people [[albeit probably a minority now) are still complaining like it's 1981. I'm not going to move to Chicago just for the transit, believe14, what a shallow reason for moving. I love this town and I know it has the potential to be great, if not at least a stable city with an education population, a transit system, and low crime rate. Why can't it be? What I see is regional dysfunction that has led to the decaying of the urban core and the stagnation of the metropolitan growth. Who the heck is proud of that?

And Chicago is more like 5.5 hrs away.

[dtowncitylover]

Literally everyone I know has a car in Chicago. Some didn't when they had student loans to pay off. But as soon as they made some scratch they got a Jetta or Audi. My bosses aren't riding the el to work, I assure you. They might take the fam to a Cubs game via el twice a summer but that's the extent of the el usage.

'Cause you know, the El isn't the third most ridden rapid transit system in the US or anything...

[believe14]

You're totally right! But this isn't a gunshot wound. Our transit problem is a cancer. And to cure cancer in this region, takes alot of steps.

This is the first chemo treatment, and people [[albeit probably a minority now) are still complaining like it's 1981. I'm not going to move to Chicago just for the transit, believe14, what a shallow reason for moving. I love this town and I know it has the potential to be great, if not at least a stable city with an education population, a transit system, and low crime rate. Why can't it be? What I see is regional dysfunction that has led to the decaying of the urban core and the stagnation of the metropolitan growth. Who the heck is proud of that?

And Chicago is more like 5.5 hrs away.

You keep holding your breath for transit... you'll be on your deathbed before the change happens. Or, you could simply move to a city that has what you want now.

[Hermod]

M1 rail is nothing other than a linear people mover.

Does Detroit need transit? Hell, yes. People should be able to get around without a car.

What is the cheapest, easiest, and fastest way to get comprehensive transit in Detroit?

Get a well managed bus system with comprehensive coverage of the city and frequent reliable service on all routes.

If one bus isn't big enough for the demand, run them in convoys like Seoul, Korea used to do. On busy streets, five buses would run bumper to bumper to service the stops and twenty minutes later, five more buses would come.

Anyone that thinks that a streetcar network similar to the bus network would be so much more pleasant to ride has never ridden a real streetcar.

[chicagoforlife]

Detroit I believe is about 300 miles, it's about 4.5 to 5 hours.

[believe14]

'Cause you know, the El isn't the third most ridden rapid transit system in the US or anything...

Then freaking move here for Christ's sake. You sound like a fool praying for amenities other nearby cities already offer. Or is the real issue you're immobile due to lack of education or skills or do you fear moving away from your Detroit region bubble?

[Bham1982]

'Cause you know, the El isn't the third most ridden rapid transit system in the US or anything...

Well Chicago is the third biggest U.S. city, and second biggest "traditional-style" [[not polycentric) city. One would expect ridership to reflect relative population size.

Overall car ownership in Chicago is quite high, and transit ridership is strong in the U.S. context but poor in the global context. NYC is the only truly transit-oriented U.S. city.

[chicagoforlife]

M1 rail is nothing other than a linear people mover.

Does Detroit need transit? Hell, yes. People should be able to get around without a car.

What is the cheapest, easiest, and fastest way to get comprehensive transit in Detroit?

Get a well managed bus system with comprehensive coverage of the city and frequent reliable service on all routes.

If one bus isn't big enough for the demand, run them in convoys like Seoul, Korea used to do. On busy streets, five buses would run bumper to bumper to service the stops and twenty minutes later, five more buses would come.

Anyone that thinks that a streetcar network similar to the bus network would be so much more pleasant to ride has never ridden a real streetcar.

In Chicago we call it bus bunching, that happens when a bus departs and starts running late, the next bus on the same route in the same direction has enough time to catch up to that bus so there are two buses in a row, sometimes three or more. It's not suppose to happen though.

[masterblaster]

If you can't understand why a rich, highly centralized Northeast Corridor city that happens to be capital of the most powerful nation in human history, and has a 120-mile Taj Mahal of a subway system, which federal employees are basically forced to ride, has higher ridership than Detroit, then I don't know what to say. Visit DC and report back all the alleged similarities with Detroit.

I was attempting to point out that in the 1970's, when the rapid transit systems for both cities were being planned/proposed, they most likely had similar transit ridership. They had the same population density. Also, back in the 1970's, D.C. was the original Chocolate city [[majority black, working class). It wasn't that rich.

D.C. was probably more centralized, and a rapid transit system was justified to transport people to all of those federal offices in the core. However, in the 1970's downtown Detroit was still the heart of the region and a Rapid Transit system could be easily be justified at that time. That's probably why the PRESIDENT proposed it.

[chicagoforlife]

Literally everyone I know has a car in Chicago. Some didn't when they had student loans to pay off. But as soon as they made some scratch they got a Jetta or Audi. My bosses aren't riding the el to work, I assure you. They might take the fam to a Cubs game via el twice a summer but that's the extent of the el usage.

The El has about 750,000 passengers a day, I'm sure bosses and execs ride the L. The bus system has about 1 million passengers a day, and the reason why the bus system has higher ridership is because it serves more areas than the L does.

[dtowncitylover]

You keep holding your breath for transit... you'll be on your deathbed before the change happens. Or, you could simply move to a city that has what you want now.

Well at least I died fighting for what I believed in my hometown than dying for nothing at all in a city with an inferiority complex to New York.