M-1 to break ground this summer

[believe14]

I don't think Birmingham wanted a place for parents to treat as a weekend baby sitter or for Detroit, Southfield and Dearborn's finest to come cause problems. Unfortunately it's difficult to escape riff raff in Metro Detroit -- which is why distant burbs like Milford/Lyon, Brighton, Oakland Twp and Clarkston are booming.

[antongast]

I don't think Birmingham wanted a place for parents to treat as a weekend baby sitter or for Detroit and Southfield's finest to come cause problems.

So if I keep pretending not to know what you're talking about, you'll just get more and more blatantly racist until your plausible deniability is sacrificed on the altar of your need to piss people off? Cool.

So tell me, what sorts of problems do Southfield police officers cause in Birmingham? Double-parking in front of the doughnut shop?

[SDCC]

You people are talking to Archie Bunker – and historical facts, common sense and logic – is lost and unintelligible to Archie – he blames minorities for his lot in life. In actuality its his lack of education and blind prejudice that has kept him from succeeding in life, he is incapable of looking beyond something as superficial as skin color.

[canuck]

And if you sport a crewcut in the far off suburb of Pyongyang, you'll automatically be on a list of Kim Jung Il's approved hairstyles. Just don't cuddle with your girlfriend on that park bench.

[believe14]

You guys are making this a race issue -- not me. I urge you to take a mindful look at your motives.

[canuck]

Folks in Pyongyang also pay a high price to live there just like Birmingham.

[canuck]

You people are talking to Archie Bunker, he is incapable of looking beyond something as superficial as skin color.

He may overcome this if, Dog forbid he is pulled out of a wreck, and saved by an EMS crew, nurses and a surgeon. All quite a bit darker than he is...

[believe14]

You people are talking to Archie Bunker...

More of a Horatio Alger fan. If only the average Detroit resident could get through one of his novels.

[antongast]

You guys are making this a race issue -- not me. I urge you to take a mindful look at your motives.

[SDCC]

I don't think this has ever been a problem in Chicago, the Purple Line extends into Evanston, the Blue Line goes to Forest Park, the Green Line goes to Forest Park, the Pink Line goes to Cicero and none of those suburbs have had any increased crime so I agree but then again I'm not the one arguing it.

There are some crimes on the platforms but that might be purse snatching and even rape, I remember a couple years ago someone got taken into an alley from a Red Line station on the Northside, it was either the Jarvis or Morse station I can't remember now but that's the kind of thing that can happen, a lot of times those big platforms are empty during different times of the day. This happened at about 5 in the morning.

Ditto for San Diego; trolley platforms have more cameras than Bank of America. Cameras are also mounted on the outer shell of the trolley, monitoring people as they enter and exit, there are innumerable cameras inside the trolleys. San Diego buses record video, as well as, audio.
While there have been crimes committed on platforms, they are few and far between. Trolley security is a combination of uniformed officers performing enforcement [[tickets and passes please) and security officers. Enforcement officers are not armed, security officers are armed, they are paired together, enforcement is checking for tickets, while security officers monitor their activities. Typically 4 of them board a trolley, there are also plain clothes officers, and bike patrols. There are Special Enforcement Units, and SWARM days; trolley police will overwhelm certain trolley stops, with literally 20 to 30 officers; complete with dogs, catching and stopping everyone that de-boards a particular stop, checking for tickets and passes.
Security is well funded, with a bulk of the funding coming from TSA – trolleys are mass transit and are eligible for Transportation Security Administration [[TSA) funding – which includes K9 Explosives Detection units; canine teams trained to detect explosive odors. Periodically, Homeland Security will conduct drills on trolleys.
The overwhelming majority of violations, in descending order:
1. Disorderly Conduct
2. Trespassing on MTS property
3. Drunkenness
4. Curfew Violations
5. Vandalism

[Bham1982]

If you read any of the Detroit News responses to the M1 article, one sentiment repeated by several readers is the idea that extending light rail into the suburbs will increase crime in those suburbs. Do these readers ever stop to think how ludicrous that sounds?

It's actually a reasonable statement. Criminals and troublemakers often take transit. In Chicago, there were so many L train holdups [[kids would stick up the whole train car) that the CTA closed and then removed a stop near Cabrini Green on the Brown Line.

And, in St. Louis, the light rail now goes to a suburban mall, which has seen an explosion in crime and riff-raff, so much that they implemented an underage ban and even tried to block the pedestrian connection from the station to the mall.

Royal Oak and Birmingham both attract an unsavory crowd late at night on summer weekends. There have even been shootouts. Bring direct rail and both cities may be late-night no-go zones.

[emu steve]

I find all the conspiracy theorizing somewhat tiresome. You're making a simple thing complicated. There aren't any Koch brothers type groups spending money to fight transit, even if such people exist, for the good and simple reason that they are getting what they want without spending a dime. Some of the wealthiest people in town, with surnames like Penske and Gilbert and Ilitch, are the promoters of the M1 system.

It's much simpler than this. Detroit is the motor city and we know how to build cars, and roads for cars, and transportation-wise that's all we know how to do, so that's what we do. We don't have transit because we thought it didn't matter, and many still think that way.

Agree.

Public transportation works best when there is a need to move a lot of people mostly to a major hub [[e.g., downtown Detroit, Midtown - WSU, and the hospitals). This is the model used in NYC and D.C. - get hundreds of thousand workers into/out of D.C. or Manhattan daily. [[note: in D.C. this has been changing rapidly as employment centers are now more decentralized).

I'd like to see M1 expanded to 8 mile and see if there is demand to move folks from that area to Midtown/Downtown.

If that works, then try Gratiot and Michigan Ave.

Then run feeder buses into these lines [[i.e., Woodward, Gratiot, Michigan).

[believe14]

It boggles my mind that you guys are so obsessed with rail. Detroit has three neighborhoods that are apparently livable and like 10 miles between the next livable towns, e.g, Royal Oak, Grosse Pointe, Dearborn Hts. Chicago on the other hand has functional and connected neighborhoods in every direction. Taxpayers won't ride this and aren't going to ever approve billions on a train when their [[employee pricing) car works just fine. Furthermore, in case you guys don't follow the news, you can't maintain anything and have billions in pending infrastructure to repair as is. Give this up. If you want a train, go get a job in Chicago.

[emu steve]

It boggles my mind that you guys are so obsessed with rail. Detroit has three neighborhoods that are apparently livable and like 10 miles between the next livable towns, e.g, Royal Oak, Grosse Pointe, Dearborn Hts. Chicago on the other hand has functional and connected neighborhoods in every direction. Taxpayers won't ride this and aren't going to ever approve billions on a train when their [[employee pricing) car works just fine. Furthermore, in case you guys don't follow the news, you can't maintain anything and have billions in pending infrastructure to repair as is. Give this up. If you want a train, go get a job in Chicago.

two points:

1). yes, this project is kind of a frill, for a limited area, than a necessity as is rail in say NYC, D.C., etc.

2). And yes, my point is that if this project does work then it can be expanded. And if it works it will be another symbol of a city trying to come back.

My question, and I don't know the answer, are there enough people who need to get to and from downtown to make it work? Or folks who need to move between say WSU and downtown and vice versa.

This means the downtown area needs to continue growing as an employment hub.

[chicagoforlife]

they close those Brown Line stations in 1949 due to ridership. the north and Clybourn Red Line station is very close to where Cabrini Green was.

[Cliffy]

Stupidest post ever, maybe.

No, he's right. Public transportation is gross. You got all this filth, bums, felons etc... riding with you on the bus or train. You got the crime factor which happens like pick pockets and god knows what else. I remember the subway in Athens and there were drug addicts just lying all high or even dead in the station. That is nasty. Car is so much superior to the bus. I will let the peasants take the bus and train.

[Bham1982]

they close those Brown Line stations in 1949 due to ridership. the north and Clybourn Red Line station is very close to where Cabrini Green was.

No, they closed that particular CTA station in the 70's or 80's, due to stick-up kids robbing entire train cars. There were other stations closed, usually in proximity to low-income housing.

[chicagoforlife]

No, they closed that particular CTA station in the 70's or 80's, due to stick-up kids robbing entire train cars. There were other stations closed, usually in proximity to low-income housing.

I don't know exactly what station you are talking about all the stations that were between armitage and sedgewick were closed at the same time in 1949. The CTA hasn't closed any station for being too close to a housing project.

[dbc]

No, they closed that particular CTA station in the 70's or 80's, due to stick-up kids robbing entire train cars. There were other stations closed, usually in proximity to low-income housing.

I assume you mean the Sedgwick station, which is the Brown Line station closest to Cabrini. Granted, that station gave me pause many a night back in 1996, but what source are you sighting that the closing was cRime-based? Chicago-l.org mentions It closed in 1973 for like two months, but says nothing about that being because of crime.

[chicagoforlife]

I assume you mean the Sedgwick station, which is the Brown Line station closest to Cabrini. Granted, that station gave me pause many a night back in 1996, but what source are you sighting that the closing was cRime-based? Chicago-l.org mentions It closed in 1973 for like two months, but says nothing about that being because of crime.

There were stations at Halsted and Larrabee on the Brown Line but those stations closed in 1949 due to service cuts. Even so the Brown Line really didn't come that close to Cabrini Green, and the North-Clybourn Red Line station is pretty much in the same area the Halsted Brown Line station was. Sedgwick is quite aways east of Halsted though.

[chicagoforlife]

Effective August 1, 1949, the Ravenswood Line, as it was to be known in the modern era, was instituted. During normal service hours, trains operated from Kimball to the Loop, moving from the subway back onto the Loop Elevated at all times. During owl hours, trains were truncated back to a shuttle service, operating from Kimball to Armitage, with transfers to the newly created North-South Route [[Howard-Englewood-Jackson Park line) at Fullerton. At the same time, A/B skip-stop service was instituted on the new Ravenswood Line on weekdays and Saturdays from 6am to 9pm. Under the skip-stop system, Wellington, Armitage, and Grand on the main line became "A" stations, Diversey and Sedgwick became "B" stations, the rest being "AB" stations. Due to close spacing and poor patronage, many local stations were closed along the main line as well. These included Wrightwood, Webster, Halsted, Larrabee & Ogden, Schiller, Division, and Oak. Willow station had already closed several years before as a result of the construction of the State Street Subway. Additionally, the CTA closed the North Water Terminal and sent all Ravenswood trains around the Loop. The terminal was not, however, demolished immediately, retained for specials, charters, equipment storage, and emergencies. The faster service provided by A/B operations was welcomed, but had to be tweaked within a few years. Outside of rush hours, the frequency of Ravenswood trains was less than on the companion North-South Route, and the public perceived the intervals between trains as excessively long at those times at the "A" and "B" stations. So on January 6, 1952, the hours of A/B skip-stop service were cut back to Monday-Friday rush hours only, with local stops at all other times.

[NoHeartAnthony]

Can't believe you guys are in here wanting public transport when there are bigger issues. Like guns. How about Elliot Rodger? You following Ukraine? Can you believe they just elected a SOCIALIST? Tigers won, whew. Miggy's power is back, JD Martinez might be a steal. No one in Detroit needs a reliable system anyway. There ain't no jobs here. And no one can read/write. I blame Coleman Young, personally.

[NoHeartAnthony]

No, he's right. Public transportation is gross. You got all this filth, bums, felons etc... riding with you on the bus or train. You got the crime factor which happens like pick pockets and god knows what else. I remember the subway in Athens and there were drug addicts just lying all high or even dead in the station. That is nasty. Car is so much superior to the bus. I will let the peasants take the bus and train.

"I don't like black people".

[ghettopalmetto]

Can't believe you guys are in here wanting public transport when there are bigger issues. Like guns. How about Elliot Rodger? You following Ukraine? Can you believe they just elected a SOCIALIST? Tigers won, whew. Miggy's power is back, JD Martinez might be a steal. No one in Detroit needs a reliable system anyway. There ain't no jobs here. And no one can read/write. I blame Coleman Young, personally.

If at first you don't succeed, obfuscate obfuscate obfuscate.

[iheartthed]

What an absurd discussion. The big city with the highest crime stats in the U.S. happens to be the one without a transit system. I'm not going to draw any causation inferences but I think it's at least safe to say that mass transit does not increase crime in cities.