M-1 to break ground this summer

[chicagoforlife]

I have a car but like I said I don't use it if I don't have to...there are many times where I'll take the bus or the L and get to where I'm going, mainly because I don't want to deal with the traffic and don't want to deal with high parking rates. The bus and the L get me where I'm going about 99.9% of the time, two lines of the L and a lot of the bus routes run 24 hours a day and if they don't they are only shutdown for about three hours overnight. There should be no reason to park in downtown Chicago.

[dtowncitylover]

Then freaking move here for Christ's sake. You sound like a fool praying for amenities other nearby cities already offer. Or is the real issue you're immobile due to lack of education or skills or do you fear moving away from your Detroit region bubble?

I've always prefered the east coast anyway. Nicer people and better connected. No I am well educated with a great job. I just look around at other cities and I am not convinced why Detroit can't be on par with them.

[Bham1982]

The El has about 750,000 passengers a day, I'm sure bosses and execs ride the L. The bus system has about 1 million passengers a day, and the reason why the bus system has higher ridership is because it serves more areas than the L does.

Per most recent data available, here are daily ridership stats for top 3 systems of rail and bus in the U.S.



Rail-
NYC MTA subway [[not including PATH or SIRT)- 8.7333 million
DC Metro- 855.3 thousand
Chicago L- 734.9 thousand

Bus-
NYC NYCT bus [[not including MTA bus, mostly in Queens)- 2.605 million
LA MTA bus- 1.138.3 million
Chicago CTA bus- 918.3 thousand

[masterblaster]

Then freaking move here for Christ's sake. You sound like a fool praying for amenities other nearby cities already offer. Or is the real issue you're immobile due to lack of education or skills or do you fear moving away from your Detroit region bubble?

Why are you so negative? What is your point for being here? Detroit has significant issues with crime, corruption, and lack of education attainment. This is true, everyone knows it. Nobody is arguing against that. Chicago also has the same problems, though to a lesser degree. It also has a rapid transit system that makes getting around easier, and is a great asset to the city.

If we can get rapid transit here, along with better bus service, and a functioning RTA, it would make our city more attractive to people especially the young professionals who are becoming more interested in city living. This trolley won't really address the rapid transit deficit, but we do need rapid transit if we want to attract more young professionals and jobs. We also need to tackle the crime issue, and the corruption issue is already being addressed.

The lack of education attainment - well nobody is willing to address that. That would require close and consistent interaction with poor blacks - which nobody wants to do, they just want to move away from them and their problems.

[SDCC]

Had the K-9 teams out today...



This is one of the older trolleys...circa 1985....notice at the end of the trolley..same K-9 that was on the platform boarded the trolley... I was listening to music and wondered why several people jumped up and got off the trolley at the last minute...Trolley Police

ATTACH]23564[/ATTACH]

[Hermod]

In Chicago we call it bus bunching, that happens when a bus departs and starts running late, the next bus on the same route in the same direction has enough time to catch up to that bus so there are two buses in a row, sometimes three or more. It's not suppose to happen though.

No, Seoul used to run the buses in packs, it wasn't random like the statistical "why do buses run in threes?" They planned these virtual "bus trains" because of the large number of people waiting at the stops.

[Pickford-Bentler]

No, Seoul used to run the buses in packs, it wasn't random like the statistical "why do buses run in threes?" They planned these virtual "bus trains" because of the large number of people waiting at the stops.

With remote cameras at stops and GPS tracking, buses should be able to have capacity flexibility to meet any demand. I would think that there would be staging areas along the route for the extras that, possibly, need not be used for the entire run. This would require deboarding/reboarding of those already on one of the extras. I already do that on the Red Line Metro in DC. Only a subset of the trains go all the way to Glenmont. So there is a deboard/reboard at Silver Spring.


In DC buses and the Metro work together as capillaries and arteries of the transportation net.

It is 1:10 [[hours:minutes) to get from my home in MD to Eisenhower Avenue in VA by Metro/Bus. When traffic is ideal driving takes 0:50 [[hours:minutes). During the worst of rush hour traffic, it takes 2:20 [[hours:minutes).

That commute is about 30 miles as the crow flies or 45 as the Beltway weaves.

What is nice about the Metro is that lower wage workers can expand their range of employment locations without moving because it does reduce commute times that would be at least double, if done via bus alone.

So my criticism of Metro Detroit is that it lacks fast arteries to augment a bus system that appears lame to me.

[royce]

I'm not pleased with the slowness of the whole situation. Woodward is tore up right now and needs to be repaved yesterday. If putting in the lightrail is what is keeping Woodward from being resurfaced, then they need to speed up the process. Also, I would think by now those in control of the project would know where the light rail cars will be manufactured and what kind of system it will be: battery or electric.

The real issue is clearly whether or not to have light rail for 3.3 miles. I think it is a necessary start to hopefully a bigger light rail system along Woodward. To be honest, this talk of a system going to 8 mile is a waste of time. If you are thinking about replacing the bus system with lightrail, then it makes sense. However, for this to really work, a lightrail system has to replace the current Woodward bus and go beyond 8 mile, if not to Pontiac, then at least to Birmingham.

[stasu1213]

I'm not pleased with the slowness of the whole situation. Woodward is tore up right now and needs to be repaved yesterday. If putting in the lightrail is what is keeping Woodward from being resurfaced, then they need to speed up the process. Also, I would think by now those in control of the project would know where the light rail cars will be manufactured and what kind of system it will be: battery or electric.

The real issue is clearly whether or not to have light rail for 3.3 miles. I think it is a necessary start to hopefully a bigger light rail system along Woodward. To be honest, this talk of a system going to 8 mile is a waste of time. If you are thinking about replacing the bus system with lightrail, then it makes sense. However, for this to really work, a lightrail system has to replace the current Woodward bus and go beyond 8 mile, if not to Pontiac, then at least to Birmingham.

Agreed. Woodward is in badly need of repaving. It is a State Rd. Snyder and legislators also have a hand in the condition of the street. I don't know if a design had been selected yet for the train or trolley that will be put on the tracks. This is why I say that I would believe it when I see it. I don't care how many bulldozers and orange cones are on Woodward. Woodward is suppose to be the main thoroughfare and it is a damn shame that officials had let it get into the condition that it is in. Gilbert, Illitch, and Karmanos should throw in the towel if they don't have the financial backing for the long term plan for this system. I disagree with you saying that 8 miles is nothing for a light rail system to run. Try walking that distance. 8 miles walking and on a bicycle is different traveling than it is in a car. 8 miles in Manhattan will take you from Battery Park or Westside Hwy up past 34th street which is midtown Manhattan. Look how much activity is within that distance. Chicago have the Miracle Mile with nothing but retail. 8 miles is a hell of a lot of space for the light rail to travel

[royce]

stasu1213, I want it to go past Eight Mile. For it just to stop at Eight Mile makes no sense unless the light rail replaces all of the Woodward DDOT buses. The sign of true regional transit is when the light rail goes north beyond Eight Mile. Extending it to nine mile would be a vast improvement. Going to Ten mile [[I-696) would be better [[ a park and ride at that vacant lot at Main and the service drive). Stopping at Maple would be fantastic. Ending in downtown Pontiac would be ideal.

Maybe the Oakland County communities along Woodward could work on their end of the light rail system, starting in Pontiac, and meet up with Detroit's section at Eight. Have the powers that be take a picture shaking hands like that famous transcontinental railroad completion photo. Now that would be some regional cooperation.

[professorscott]

stasu1213, I want it to go past Eight Mile. For it just to stop at Eight Mile makes no sense unless the light rail replaces all of the Woodward DDOT buses. The sign of true regional transit is when the light rail goes north beyond Eight Mile. Extending it to nine mile would be a vast improvement. Going to Ten mile [[I-696) would be better [[ a park and ride at that vacant lot at Main and the service drive). Stopping at Maple would be fantastic. Ending in downtown Pontiac would be ideal.

Realistically the best place for an eventual northern terminus is a [[rebuilt and upgraded) Royal Oak Transit Center, to connect to Amtrak and the various SMART buses that go through there, plus you're in downtown RO which is very walkable, plus it's a good place to turn the trains around or switch them to southbound tracks without screwing up traffic on Woodward. From Royal Oak to Pontiac the overall density is much lower and it's hard to convince Uncle Sugar to pony up.

As I've said before, this thing is going to grow organically over time as demand pushes it, most likely north along Woodward and east along Jefferson. It won't happen all at once, only because nobody seems willing to even try to come up with the money to make that happen. The first extension is likely to push it a short distance further up Woodward, and once we all realize it is painless to do that, the process will just start repeating itself. Much as it did a hundred-plus years ago.

[believe14]

Grow organically? So phase 1 is taking 9 years... When are phase 2 and 3 going to be completed? You people are seriously enthusiastic about something that could be completed in 30 years? I'm sorry but that is sad.

[Hermod]

Realistically the best place for an eventual northern terminus is a [[rebuilt and upgraded) Royal Oak Transit Center, to connect to Amtrak and the various SMART buses that go through there, plus you're in downtown RO which is very walkable, plus it's a good place to turn the trains around or switch them to southbound tracks without screwing up traffic on Woodward. From Royal Oak to Pontiac the overall density is much lower and it's hard to convince Uncle Sugar to pony up.

As I've said before, this thing is going to grow organically over time as demand pushes it, most likely north along Woodward and east along Jefferson. It won't happen all at once, only because nobody seems willing to even try to come up with the money to make that happen. The first extension is likely to push it a short distance further up Woodward, and once we all realize it is painless to do that, the process will just start repeating itself. Much as it did a hundred-plus years ago.

The rails really need to go from the river to a terminus at Great Lakes Crossing. I wonder what the chances are that the continuation up Woodward will be compatible technologically with M1 rail or will yoiu have to transfer on your way up.

[canuck]

Nobody that rides public transit for work or school in NYC, DC or Chicago enjoys the experience. It's miserable and gross. Services like Uber have made it extremely easy to avoid mass transit. Detroit is a more miserable, dangerous and unemployed city than those three, and you somehow expect the mass transit experience to be sexier? Until you fix the crime and illiteracy problems, it will just be a really expensive vessel unemployed people ride around the city.

Stupidest post ever, maybe.

[SDCC]

Stupidest post ever, maybe.

One of...most of his posts win the Archie Bunker award

[canuck]

One of...most of his posts win the Archie Bunker award

True. But whenever Archie spoke his wisdom, at least there was the smell of his cheap cigars wafting nearby. In this case, the smell is more like doggy-do.

[chicagoforlife]

Agreed. Woodward is in badly need of repaving. It is a State Rd. Snyder and legislators also have a hand in the condition of the street. I don't know if a design had been selected yet for the train or trolley that will be put on the tracks. This is why I say that I would believe it when I see it. I don't care how many bulldozers and orange cones are on Woodward. Woodward is suppose to be the main thoroughfare and it is a damn shame that officials had let it get into the condition that it is in. Gilbert, Illitch, and Karmanos should throw in the towel if they don't have the financial backing for the long term plan for this system. I disagree with you saying that 8 miles is nothing for a light rail system to run. Try walking that distance. 8 miles walking and on a bicycle is different traveling than it is in a car. 8 miles in Manhattan will take you from Battery Park or Westside Hwy up past 34th street which is midtown Manhattan. Look how much activity is within that distance. Chicago have the Miracle Mile with nothing but retail. 8 miles is a hell of a lot of space for the light rail to travel

Magnificent Mile

[Danny]

Here come the NEW DSR's! The trolley's are back. A little 1914 added into 2014.

[royce]

If you read any of the Detroit News responses to the M1 article, one sentiment repeated by several readers is the idea that extending light rail into the suburbs will increase crime in those suburbs. Do these readers ever stop to think how ludicrous that sounds? First, do criminals who plan on committing crimes actually consider taking public transportation to get to and from their destinations? Ok, so a criminal robs your house and takes your TV, walks to the nearest public transportation, and waits for the bus or light rail to show up. He or she then pays the fair to ride the bus or light rail back to their home, while sitting in plain sight, with you TV in tow. Does this sound like something even the dumbest criminal would do?

Also, if you are sitting on the bus or light rail and a robber tries to rob you on it, wouldn't he or she be worried about all the witnesses who could identify him or her? Would a criminal be so bold as to shoot and kill everybody on the bus or light rail to realistically get a way with a crime such as breaking and entering? I just don't see any of these scenarios happening. Besides, if they did happen, wouldn't our media cover these stories when they happened? I haven't heard of people getting robbed, on the bus. Now, I have heard of people getting robbed at the bus stop. However, I have never heard of someone being robbed on the bus. Where do the naysayers get this crazy stuff from?

[believe14]

Birmingham already has a non resident loitering problem. The last thing they want is more loser window shoppers scaring real customers and residents who pay a premium to live there.

[chicagoforlife]

If you read any of the Detroit News responses to the M1 article, one sentiment repeated by several readers is the idea that extending light rail into the suburbs will increase crime in those suburbs. Do these readers ever stop to think how ludicrous that sounds? First, do criminals who plan on committing crimes actually consider taking public transportation to get to and from their destinations? Ok, so a criminal robs your house and takes your TV, walks to the nearest public transportation, and waits for the bus or light rail to show up. He or she then pays the fair to ride the bus or light rail back to their home, while sitting in plain sight, with you TV in tow. Does this sound like something even the dumbest criminal would do?

Also, if you are sitting on the bus or light rail and a robber tries to rob you on it, wouldn't he or she be worried about all the witnesses who could identify him or her? Would a criminal be so bold as to shoot and kill everybody on the bus or light rail to realistically get a way with a crime such as breaking and entering? I just don't see any of these scenarios happening. Besides, if they did happen, wouldn't our media cover these stories when they happened? I haven't heard of people getting robbed, on the bus. Now, I have heard of people getting robbed at the bus stop. However, I have never heard of someone being robbed on the bus. Where do the naysayers get this crazy stuff from?

I don't think this has ever been a problem in Chicago, the Purple Line extends into Evanston, the Blue Line goes to Forest Park, the Green Line goes to Forest Park, the Pink Line goes to Cicero and none of those suburbs have had any increased crime so I agree but then again I'm not the one arguing it.

There are some crimes on the platforms but that might be purse snatching and even rape, I remember a couple years ago someone got taken into an alley from a Red Line station on the Northside, it was either the Jarvis or Morse station I can't remember now but that's the kind of thing that can happen, a lot of times those big platforms are empty during different times of the day. This happened at about 5 in the morning.

[stasu1213]

Realistically the best place for an eventual northern terminus is a [[rebuilt and upgraded) Royal Oak Transit Center, to connect to Amtrak and the various SMART buses that go through there, plus you're in downtown RO which is very walkable, plus it's a good place to turn the trains around or switch them to southbound tracks without screwing up traffic on Woodward. From Royal Oak to Pontiac the overall density is much lower and it's hard to convince Uncle Sugar to pony up.

As I've said before, this thing is going to grow organically over time as demand pushes it, most likely north along Woodward and east along Jefferson. It won't happen all at once, only because nobody seems willing to even try to come up with the money to make that happen. The first extension is likely to push it a short distance further up Woodward, and once we all realize it is painless to do that, the process will just start repeating itself. Much as it did a hundred-plus years ago.

The light rail supporters should lobby or buy off state legislators and state/city elected officials tovmake this lightrail extension happen such as those entities or companies who are against a good mass transit system probably lobbied to prolong it from developing

[professorscott]

The light rail supporters should lobby or buy off state legislators and state/city elected officials tovmake this lightrail extension happen such as those entities or companies who are against a good mass transit system probably lobbied to prolong it from developing

I find all the conspiracy theorizing somewhat tiresome. You're making a simple thing complicated. There aren't any Koch brothers type groups spending money to fight transit, even if such people exist, for the good and simple reason that they are getting what they want without spending a dime. Some of the wealthiest people in town, with surnames like Penske and Gilbert and Ilitch, are the promoters of the M1 system.

It's much simpler than this. Detroit is the motor city and we know how to build cars, and roads for cars, and transportation-wise that's all we know how to do, so that's what we do. We don't have transit because we thought it didn't matter, and many still think that way.

[antongast]

Birmingham already has a non resident loitering problem. The last thing they want is more loser window shoppers scaring real customers and residents who pay a premium to live there.

When you spend a lot of time and money, as Birmingham did, trying to make your city into the kind of place where people like to hang out, then what will often happen is that people will start hanging out there.

If you don't want that, you could start by bulldozing all the buildings along Old Woodward and 15 Mile and replacing them with parking lots or grass. I hear George Jackson is working as a consultant these days; his services may be helpful in implementing such a plan. Or you could write off Birmingham as a lost cause and move to someplace like Addison Township, where the environment is already very unwelcoming for window shoppers.

[canuck]

Antongast, one could also consider moving to Pyongyang where the windowshopping is not that hot. No beer drinking in public parks either; problem solved for believe14