Groups plan Belle Isle rally to protest 'aggressive treatment of citizens'

[sumas]

Frankly speaking, our neighborhoods and parks have been largely neglected. A certain code kind of evolved. Somethings good, somethings bad.

In my neighborhood we have worked extensively as a community to reduce litter. One neighbor went to area schools begging them to introduce anti litter campaigns, they all declined. Sad really.

Litter bothers me more than crime. I was gone one day but knew area kids had come to visit cause my porch was strewn with empty wrappers. At least it wasn't tossed in the street. They saw my car pull up and came running, I keep a hand painted trash bin on my porch and would not deal till it all got tossed in. Respect for nature apparently needs to be instilled.

The sheer volume of trash on Belle Isle is so disturbing. Drive any highway in the state, it is the same all over. Trashy people come in all colors.

[Honky Tonk]

Where in the 60's was there widespread abandonment in Detroit?

That doesn't even make any sense, as the city was still packed in and relatively expensive.

If you're referring to my post, suppose you tell me, because I never said there was "widespread abandonment" in the 60's. There were abandoned houses that were razed, absolutely. @ that point, the City could still keep a lid on it and tear them down within a half reasonable time frame. In the early-mid 70's, the practice of setting abandoned houses on fire started. There were rumors floating around @ that time, that the City government was doing it on purpose to save demolition costs. @ that point, the exodus really got rolling.

[Honky Tonk]

Litter bothers me more than crime.

I don't mind home invasions, as long as they pick up after themselves.

[scottn55]

Ran into Ron Scott [[Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality) earlier this week. He and I spoke briefly about Belle Isle. I think part of the problem/misunderstanding is that he is conflating two separate issues:

[[1) Strict enforcement of the laws as written, such as fishing permits, the speed limit, etc. [[which is ok, IMHO).

[[2) Unnecessarily hostile engagement of islandgoers who haven't done anything wrong, such as the earlier post of someone who was questioned by police even though they did not have a reason to be detained or probable cause to be questioned. [[which I'm not ok with.)

He mentioned that the protest was very calm and peaceful and that their intention is not to be confrontational, unless necessary. He mentioned to me that there's a group of classic car enthusiasts who do an annual get together on Belle Isle but that they're afraid to do the even their for fear of being harrassed. [[or worse).

I told him that if they're not breaking any rules, then I don't have a problem with them being on the island...his response was that after years of things being one way, it is unclear to the general population of what is within the rules and not. And he also mentioned that it is also unclear that there is a check on law enforcement to make sure they aren't overstepping their bounds.

Now let me pause and mention that Ron Scott is very vocal about the Emergency Management as being an "occupation", and he is viewing this through a civil rights issue rather than a financial issue. And, of course, given the last 50 years, there is certainly some reason for him to see it that way. But I do take him at his word that there needs to be better understanding from the people as well as the police about -- in practical, not theoretical terms -- how both guests and law enforcement are expected to behave.

He said he will e-mail me his list of "demands" that he is asking for from MSP, and I told him that I would keep an open mind and reserve judgment until I see exactly what people are asking for.

Is it possible that all of this is just a misunderstanding? Probably not 100%. Certainly there are going to be some changes that some people just straight up will not like. But, given that both Ron Scott and Brenda Jones have stepped back their confrontational tone, I think that a good part of this conflict can be ameliorated with better communication.

In other news, apparently, the Belle Isle "party crowd" has moved to Rouge Park, and the Assistant Chief of Police mentioned that now that they are relieved from policing Belle Isle, they will be deploying more police officers to Rouge Park and other parks as well.

I think it's worth noting that the police are issuing approximately four warnings for every one ticket. This ratio would seem to deflate Ron Scott's argument about "the rules" not being clear or clearly communicated. It seems to me that the police are cognizant of this and are responding reasonably. They recognize that the speed limits and other rules have not been enforced. They're now letting people know that things are changing. This could be viewed as an education campaign. If they were writing tickets and hauling people off to jail willy nilly it would be another story. But if you have an open warrant out you probably shouldn't drive 35 mph in a 20 mph zone. I think a lot of these arrests probably started with the officers intending to issue a warning and discovering something else in the process.

[erikd]

This isn't true. There was little abandonment in Detroit pre-1970. The initial postwar population loss was mostly young familes heading to cheaper new housing in the suburbs. Back then Detroit was overcrowded and expensive, and you could get more for your money by crossing 8 Mile, especially with the GI Bill for new construction housing.

Widespread abandonment didn't take place until the 80's, after crime had peaked and almost half the city already left.

Do you realize how illogical, nonsensical, and insane your statement is?

"Widespread abandonment didn't take place until almost half of the city had already left."

When almost half of the people leave a city over a period of 25 years, IT IS EXACTLY A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WIDESPREAD ABANDONMENT.

WTF?

[sumas]

I don't mind home invasions, as long as they pick up after themselves.

Don't be snarky. We had a spate of home invasions and worked with police to clear that group out. Back to bucolic again. The litter has a detrimental effect on area youth. To disregard our community shows the kids a clear message that "we" don't matter. Abandon and burnt out homes send that same message. So many people work hard to instill confidence in area kids. They can succeed. It takes a clean safe neighborhood too.

My only home invasions currently are MYKIDS. A good friend who never married thinks we are being taken advantage of but I disagree. They amuse me no end. But they better not litter on my property.

[sumas]

Belle Isle is a huge treasure. MYKiDS love to go but they want to swim and it is way too early for that. We will take them and do a BBQ but they have to earn that. A few garbage bags [[I bought them garden gloves) Respect for people, nature and community is important. I honor so many in our community that invest in our youth.