Busted on Belle Isle

[jcole]

Jcole, there are plenty of resources available about community policing online or at your local library. It really helps your understanding if you have an open mind, peruse a book or two that challenges your preconceptions, and learn a thing or three.

Your tactic seems to be to bully and bluster and engage in a lot of rhetorical bullshittin'.

The fact that they didn't know the name of a community nearby seems pretty telling to me.

YOU are accusing ME of engaging in rhetorical bullshit? Pot meet kettle.
And I don't need your recommendations on reading material, thanks, especially concerning police department culture. I was raised by a Detroit Police Inspector.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, I think it's a rhetorical bluff to jump down with both feet on somebody for asking a question. So, yeah, I call bullshit. Sorry you don't like it.

Now, shhhhh, the adults are trying to have an adult conversation ...

[Detroitnerd]

When a bunch of youths in a majority-minority neighborhood beat up somebody passing through, it's apparently a great opportunity to talk about race, hate crimes, etc.

When the governments in charge of an area send in a police force that may or may not be representative of a jurisdiction, however, it is apparently very bad form to ask so much as the very first question.

In fact, to do so would be racist.

[jcole]

Yeah, I think it's a rhetorical bluff to jump down with both feet on somebody for asking a question. So, yeah, I call bullshit. Sorry you don't like it.

Now, shhhhh, the adults are trying to have an adult conversation ...

I didn't jump on you for asking a question; I jumped on you for making yet another one of your race-baiting posts. As to your advice to me, keep it to yourself; if I want advice from an over-weening, self-important minor journalist I can find one quite easily; they are a dime a dozen.

[Detroitnerd]

Thanks for your answer, Margarite, and apologies for the fireworks. Any time we discuss anything that verges on race, there are a few people in the peanut gallery here whose inability to discuss race results in big old conniption fits. Please don't let it put you off contributing to the DetroitYES forum.

[Detroitnerd]

I didn't jump on you for asking a question; I jumped on you for making yet another one of your race-baiting posts. As to your advice to me, keep it to yourself; if I want advice from an over-weening, self-important minor journalist I can find one quite easily; they are a dime a dozen.

Nonsense. You simply cannot bear to discuss the topic of race at all. And the original post didn't mention race explicitly at all. It was an open-ended question that Margarite answered quite to my satisfaction without bringing race into it. It's you and your buddies who are having the real problem here, throwing fits about perfectly reasonable topics such as community policing and representative police forces. I can understand if you don't like the topics, but they're mainstream respectable topics. Sorry if that distresses you.

If you feel the need to bring my personal life and my credentials into this, I can only presume that you are aware of just how poorly you're faring in this discussion. Tsk-tsk. Oh, well. You'll just have to resign yourself with the fact that more people are reading my words than ever before, both here and in the "real world." Too bad, huh? :P

[Margarite]

And I just noticed that Margarite indicated that they were the "park police". She could have meant one of the rangers, and I don't think there is a requirement to be representative of the people to be a park ranger. It would also explain how they could explain concisely why you shouldn't feed the geese. I don't think that's part of normal police training; at least my DPD father never told me it was.

For the record, I don't know if they were Park Police, State Troopers, or Detroit Police. All I know is that they pulled up behind my van, lights flashing, in an imposing black SUV and uniforms. I was too busy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong to check which law enforcement agency they were from. Jcole, as you say, they were very knowledgeable about the goose problem so I assume the were DNR/Park Police.

[Motor City Sam]

Going to the Island tomorrow morning for the Run With The Cops 5K. I'm actually looking forward to going and seeing what it looks like after the State took over.
The goose problem is terrible, their poop is sometimes bigger than my dogs poop and it's everywhere....grass, sidewalks, street. Please don't feed them, they've done fine for hundreds of years and will continue to do fine without human intervention. Also, getting around them when they are nesting could be downright dangerous!

I'll be down for the race, too. It's always a good time. It will also be my first trip since the State took over, so I am interested in getting a look and feel.

[noise]

Margritte: Were the officers representative of the community they are policing?

As a state park, do you mean representative of the state?

[jcole]

Nonsense. You simply cannot bear to discuss the topic of race at all. And the original post didn't mention race explicitly at all. It was an open-ended question that Margarite answered quite to my satisfaction without bringing race into it. It's you and your buddies who are having the real problem here, throwing fits about perfectly reasonable topics such as community policing and representative police forces. I can understand if you don't like the topics, but they're mainstream respectable topics. Sorry if that distresses you.

If you feel the need to bring my personal life and my credentials into this, I can only presume that you are aware of just how poorly you're faring in this discussion. Tsk-tsk. Oh, well. You'll just have to resign yourself with the fact that more people are reading my words than ever before, both here and in the "real world." Too bad, huh? :P

Perhaps you'll include me in one of your composite "pretend" suburbanites in one of your future discussions and then you'll feel all better. As to more people reading your words, it just goes to show how lacking in good news sites the internet has become.
I'll admit that you did not explicitly mention race in your original post, but if that isn't what you were asking about, I can't figure out what else it may have been. And my question still stands; how can one know if an individual law enforcement officer is indicative of the make up of their department unless said department is entirely one race and one sex and then they are not in compliance either.

[Bill Simpson]

Margritte: Were the officers representative of the community they are policing?

Is this question, "What color were they?" If so, why not just ask it that way?

[noise]

Is this question, "What color were they?" If so, why not just ask it that way?

Because, as I've learned in this thread, [[s)he's a "minor journalist" whose words are being read more than ever before.

[Detroitnerd]

Perhaps you'll include me in one of your composite "pretend" suburbanites in one of your future discussions and then you'll feel all better. As to more people reading your words, it just goes to show how lacking in good news sites the internet has become.
I'll admit that you did not explicitly mention race in your original post, but if that isn't what you were asking about, I can't figure out what else it may have been. And my question still stands; how can one know if an individual law enforcement officer is indicative of the make up of their department unless said department is entirely one race and one sex and then they are not in compliance either.

There are ways to determine if a LEO is representative of the community they are policing, and I think Margarite hit upon a great indicator. Just goes to show you, ask a broad question and get a good answer to it. As for why the question wasn't about race: [[a) that would limit the answer and [[b) those who are overly sensitive to race [[as in never want to discuss it) would have one less reason to lose your mind ... or so I imagined. *eyeroll*

It's a similar thing with the LEOs at the border. Judging by anecdotes I've heard, there seem to be plenty of border guards who have negative views of Detroit, Hamtramck and Highland Park. I heard one person tell how the guard asked why they lived in Detroit, for instance. Which tells me that there isn't a great deal of sensitivity to urban residents on the part of that force. Any reasonable person should regard this as a problem, yes?

As for representative forces, there was a time, pre-Coleman Young, when the city's police force was overwhelmingly white and embodied white supremacist attitudes. [[You know: "The Good Old Days") This was untenable and was reformed, and Detroit's police force quickly became more representative under reformers, especially with regard to race but also to gender. That's an example of a good reform. [[Too bad so many residents of means then took their marbles and moved out, then blamed the reforms and the mayor who spearheaded them for the ensuing problems.)

[Detroitnerd]

But, hey, it's not just lone Detroitnerd who believes police forces should know their community, be embedded in their community, and be representative of their community. That's police forces all over the country. But maybe you guys know better than them. If so, don't yell at me; yell at them.

[jcole]

In case you are unaware, there is no longer a requirement for even Detroit Police to live in the city, so whether or not the officer in question knew where Harper Woods was or not is moot.

[Scottathew]

Margritte: Were the officers representative of the community they are policing?

This is the kind of attitude that keeps Detroit in the past.

Who the f*ck cares if the cops were white or black. Did they do their job correctly? Were they enforcing laws properly?

In this case, regardless of race, I'd say the outcome was pretty good. The police were able to inform a well-intentioned user of the park that they were breaking a local ordinance that's designed to keep the park clean and usable.

However, you're not going to be happy unless the cops who are doing their jobs correctly are also black?

Where I live in Rochester Hills folks don't care about what race the police officers are. We only care that they do their job properly and fairly.

[Detroitnerd]

In case you are unaware, there is no longer a requirement for even Detroit Police to live in the city, so whether or not the officer in question knew where Harper Woods was or not is moot.

I think knowing where Harper Woods is shows that a person is a resident of metro Detroit. Therefore, we may reasonably conclude that these officers are not residents of metro Detroit. And metro Detroiters are the community you see on Belle Isle year after year, right?

[Scottathew]

I think knowing where Harper Woods is shows that a person is a resident of metro Detroit. Therefore, we may reasonably conclude that these officers are not residents of metro Detroit. And metro Detroiters are the community you see on Belle Isle year after year, right?

Your original question was veiled racism asking if the cops were black like the majority of Detroit residents.

You were not asking if they were Tiger fans and get a discount at the DIA and the Zoo, like most Metro-Detroiters.

[Detroitnerd]

This is the kind of attitude that keeps Detroit in the past.
Who the f*ck cares if the cops were white or black. Did they do their job correctly? Were they enforcing laws properly?
In this case, regardless of race, I'd say the outcome was pretty good. The police were able to inform a well-intentioned user of the park that they were breaking a local ordinance that's designed to keep the park clean and usable.
However, you're not going to be happy unless the cops who are doing their jobs correctly are also black?
Where I live in Rochester Hills folks don't care about what race the police officers are. We only care that they do their job properly and fairly.

I didn't ask if the cops were white or black. I asked if they were representative of the community. I think I see what's going on here. Somebody jumped to a conclusion. Wasn't me. I was just asking a neutrally worded question.

[Detroitnerd]

Your original question was veiled racism asking if the cops were black like the majority of Detroit residents.

You were not asking if they were Tiger fans and get a discount at the DIA and the Zoo, like most Metro-Detroiters.

Hahahaha.

1) Now you're a mind-reader?

2) You have no idea what racism means.

[aj3647]

Thanks for your answer, Margarite, and apologies for the fireworks. Any time we discuss anything that verges on race

Who here was discussing race before you shoehorned it in on a topic that has nothing to do with race?

[1953]

I think he wanted to know if the officer was average height and weight for the city and state, and what color his eyes were

1953

[Scottathew]

Hahahaha.

1) Now you're a mind-reader?

2) You have no idea what racism means.

You can pretend that you were not being racist, but you were. You were asking if the cops were black, not what zip code they lived in.


1) Nope, your comment was very clear, no mind reading is needed

2) I don't know what racism is because I'm white, live in Rochester Hills, and have never been a victim of it?

Your racist bullshit sounds just like the racist bullshit I heard when I grew up in Clawson when people would say, "It's getting a little dark out here" or "Look some out of towners".

I know what racism is, and I'm teaching my kids to be better than that.

[rjlj]

Strongly agree. Majority of people just want the job done, & done correctly. Apply this to any public service anywhere in the world.

This is the kind of attitude that keeps Detroit in the past.

Who the f*ck cares if the cops were white or black. Did they do their job correctly? Were they enforcing laws properly?

In this case, regardless of race, I'd say the outcome was pretty good. The police were able to inform a well-intentioned user of the park that they were breaking a local ordinance that's designed to keep the park clean and usable.

However, you're not going to be happy unless the cops who are doing their jobs correctly are also black?

Where I live in Rochester Hills folks don't care about what race the police officers are. We only care that they do their job properly and fairly.

[Cliffy]

I can't help by wonder how pathetic one minor journalist has become in adding "racism" to someone that was feeding geese. He needs to go back and review more sex shops and taco stands for the free weekly. I'm sure the NY Times is dying to hire someone that just shits on every thread in here.