Detroit council president calls state policing of Belle Isle a 'disgrace'

[FlyOnTheWall]

Anyone speeding or disobeying any laws on Belle Isle should be stopped, pulled over, arrested, taken to jail, fined, etc. white, black, red or yellow. If the State Police are finally doing the job of enforcing laws on the island, good for them. Maybe now people will be able to enjoy the island instead of fearing it.

You are an intelligent person. Thank You!

[FlyOnTheWall]

Rather than complain about getting pulled over for speeding, maybe the councilwoman shouldn't have gotten defensive and maybe instead pose the question on whether or not the speed limited could be raised to 25. A limit that most people are used to obeying.

I believe the state is trying to do that very thing. Being the Fly On The Wall has its advantages. LOL

[FlyOnTheWall]

OMG, what is Belle Isle without loud cruisers, unsafe speeders, and drunk drivers??? A nicer, better park.

Amen baby, AMEN!

[FlyOnTheWall]

Keeping the riffraff out & setting some behavior standards for a safe park.....2 words; common sense.

Not so common these days.

[Nem]

May I fix your post? OK, I will. Yes, all the current crime in Detroit is caused by the current residents. Yes it is that simple! Perhaps you do over complicate things. With the crime rate being what it is, who but a total fool would want to invest money in Detroit when they could invest that same money in much safer areas?

Well put FlyOnTheWall...all of your above posts for that matter

[313WX]

This will be an interesting summer on Belle Isle. I will bet island traffic will be cut almost in half this year or our county lock up will be bloated beyond capacity. Maybe many people don't realize that a large percentage of Detroiters have minor warrants out for their arrest for small infractions such as driving on suspended. If the MSP keeps up there policy of locking up everyone who gets pulled over and has a warrant there will be some eventual blow-back from the county jail as they just dont have the resources to handle that many offenders.
If anyone remembers about six years ago they had an amnesty day for people with warrants at that huge church just SE of 75 and McNichols, they said there were over 10,000 people trying to take care of there business but could only handle a fraction. People were lined up around several blocks. To say the least the church was overwhelmed [[and yes I was there and later got my problem cleared up at the 36th). That whole situation at the church gives a clue as to how many regular Detroiters are "driving dirty" as they say. Detroit police just dont have the resources to handle everyone they pull over who has a minor warrant.
Just sayin, it should be an interesting summer on BI.

I just hope the Staties leave Hippie Beach alone.

Well the State of Michigan insisted that they could handle the problem better, so let them take care of the chips where ever they fall...

[sumas]

"The issue came up when city Clerk Janice Winfrey told the council about recently getting pulled over by state police at the island for speeding. Winfrey"

Okay, well, Ms. Winfrey, were you speeding?

I don't get it. People complain about the absolutely insane out-of-control crime in the city, and then when somebody does something about it - such as, say, enforcing the law - it is "disgraceful"?

I was raised to believe that it is disgraceful to break the law and endanger public safety, not the other way around.

This is absolutely a cultural issue. When the highest echelons of power are enforcing a disregard for law and order, what kind of example does that set for the rest of the citizens?

Don't want to get a ticket or don't want to go to jail? Don't break the fucking law. Speeding isn't a civil right.
http://www.freep.com/article/2014042...cil-Belle-Isle

Sorry did not read all the posts but it is disgusting that public officials do not believe laws apply to them.

[Zacha341]

Absolutely DJ. The driving 'dirty' assumption is out there as some areas police assume your paper work [[license, proof of insurance, reg.) will come up short or some warrants will pop up. I owned a 'police magnet' car w/ slightly tinted windows and got stopped a few times - withstanding tint was MI legal level. I'd just smile handing over requested paper work all ready... like they assumed there'd be something amiss! I'd get and listen to the useless lecture on the tinted windows and go on my way.

This will be an interesting summer on Belle Isle. I will bet island traffic will be cut almost in half this year or our county lock up will be bloated beyond capacity. Maybe many people don't realize that a large percentage of Detroiters have minor warrants out for their arrest for small infractions such as driving on suspended.

[rb336]

from one of the report:
"She [[Allen Park resident) said she was not used to having to stop for the police."

Some of these are comical

[mwilbert]

May I fix your post? OK, I will. Yes, all the current crime in Detroit is caused by the current residents. Yes it is that simple! Perhaps you do over complicate things. With the crime rate being what it is, who but a total fool would want to invest money in Detroit when they could invest that same money in much safer areas?

Three problems with your comment here.

1) JT1 said current issues, not current crime. Fixing his post by changing what he said isn't exactly fixing.

2) Your notion of causation is too narrow. Probably the vast majority [[not all, of course) crime in Detroit is committed by the residents, but the causes of those crimes are unlikely to all rest within the city.

3) People don't primarily decide to invest money on the basis of how safe the location of their investment is in the sense of criminal behavior. Of course, that is one thing they have to take into account, but it isn't the main thing.

[Smirnoff]

from one of the report:
"She [[Allen Park resident) said she was not used to having to stop for the police."

Still practiced by a member[[s) of City Clownsil [[QB)......why do you think they are speaking out?

[rex]

she lives in Allen Park? City council member?

[Danny]

Belle Isle is now a state park. It's a done deal!!! Just like another Michigan State Parks. It's going to need security. The Michigan State Police was following its rules under law. The police caught the city official speeding in the island park. When the rules state that speed limit is 20 mph all Michigan State Parks. The city official don't need to bring all its drama to the local media about the so called 'police brutality and racial profiling stories.' No one is above the law, not the governor, Mayor of Detroit, city officials and not even the police.

The police will not everyone go that easy. Break the law and you will pay the price.

[FlyOnTheWall]

Three problems with your comment here.

1) JT1 said current issues, not current crime. Fixing his post by changing what he said isn't exactly fixing.

I would contend that current crime rates is the primary current issue. Crime from the mayor on down to the lowest of the street people.

2) Your notion of causation is too narrow. Probably the vast majority [[not all, of course) crime in Detroit is committed by the residents, but the causes of those crimes are unlikely to all rest within the city.

Probably you say.... That is sort of like saying "Probably if you walk in a heavy rain storm you'll get wet" Until all of us simply accept what the situation is, there can never be a fix.
Think of it like this, when it rains and the roof leaks, lets go fix the plumbing.

3) People don't primarily decide to invest money on the basis of how safe the location of their investment is in the sense of criminal behavior. Of course, that is one thing they have to take into account, but it isn't the main thing.

Lets see... I want to open a grocery store and I can choose to open it in Detroit or Grand Rapids. Wait a minute, most grocery stores have already made that choice.
Again identify your problem and then you can try to fix it. The biggest current problem with Detroit is crime! Fix it and the rest of the problems can be worked on. Until then, Detroit's problems are unfixable

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...
3) People don't primarily decide to invest money on the basis of how safe the location of their investment is in the sense of criminal behavior. Of course, that is one thing they have to take into account, but it isn't the main thing.

You don't think capital seeks safety and security? I think you are 100% wrong.

To attract capital and investment you need to do EVERYTHING right. You can't just say this one item I lack isn't really important. Safety's not a big thing.

Of course people invest in places that are unsafe, from a personal safety view. But with everything else being equal, a safe place win 100% of the time. And of course everything isn't equal. So we lose not just once, but twice.

Do you travel, mwilbert? If you go to other places, you can actually see investment. And you'll find that almost universally, investment correlates well with personal safety.

To beat this dead horse some more... you're old enough to remember the riots in Detroit? If so, you may have talked to some people who moved their homes and businesses to the suburbs. They really didn't want to. They loved their city. But they loved their safety more.

Safety is the #1 think Detroit needs to fix. If you could fix only one thing to attract investment, this is it.

[FlyOnTheWall]

You don't think capital seeks safety and security? I think you are 100% wrong.

To attract capital and investment you need to do EVERYTHING right. You can't just say this one item I lack isn't really important. Safety's not a big thing.

Of course people invest in places that are unsafe, from a personal safety view. But with everything else being equal, a safe place win 100% of the time. And of course everything isn't equal. So we lose not just once, but twice.

Do you travel, mwilbert? If you go to other places, you can actually see investment. And you'll find that almost universally, investment correlates well with personal safety.

To beat this dead horse some more... you're old enough to remember the riots in Detroit? If so, you may have talked to some people who moved their homes and businesses to the suburbs. They really didn't want to. They loved their city. But they loved their safety more.

Safety is the #1 thing Detroit needs to fix. If you could fix only one thing to attract investment, this is it.

You said this so much better than I did. Thank You

[Smirnoff]

she lives in Allen Park? City council member?

After almost being hit, the officers gave chase, but the councilman did not stop. Another car was called in to help with the chase.

The source said officers finally stopped Cushingberry’s car and spotted the open alcohol container and smelled marijuana.

“When they finally stopped him, he took off again,” the source said. “Then, he was stopped a second time and [[Cushingberry) flashed his City Council ID card. There was another guy in the car who had a medical marijuana card, but it doesn’t matter; you’re not allowed to smoke in the car."

[Cliffy]

Someone had a funny point on the radio yesterday, why not just turn Detroit into a state park. I can't believe how much trash visits Belle Isle during the "cool" months. Wait until it gets hot, state police will have a field day with criminals on Belle Isle. Pretty much validates the point that the city needs to be run by a 3rd party because if this was Detroit Police, everyone would have been let go. State police don't care who you are.

[mwilbert]

You don't think capital seeks safety and security? I think you are 100% wrong.

To attract capital and investment you need to do EVERYTHING right. You can't just say this one item I lack isn't really important. Safety's not a big thing.

Of course people invest in places that are unsafe, from a personal safety view. But with everything else being equal, a safe place win 100% of the time. And of course everything isn't equal. So we lose not just once, but twice.

Do you travel, mwilbert? If you go to other places, you can actually see investment. And you'll find that almost universally, investment correlates well with personal safety.

To beat this dead horse some more... you're old enough to remember the riots in Detroit? If so, you may have talked to some people who moved their homes and businesses to the suburbs. They really didn't want to. They loved their city. But they loved their safety more.

Safety is the #1 think Detroit needs to fix. If you could fix only one thing to attract investment, this is it.

Why do you think oil companies invest billions in the Niger River delta? It isn't because of the safety. What attracts investment is return on investment. Safety is a component of the investment environment, but it isn't the investment environment. When people talk about safety and investments, they aren't thinking about street crime.

If you want to say that safety is very important to getting people to live in Detroit [[and invest in houses) I would agree with that. If you want to say that crime is the single biggest problem facing the city, I would also agree with that. But that wasn't the content of the comment I was responding to. People are investing in Detroit because they think it is likely to be profitable. Would more people invest more in Detroit if crime were basically at the same level as in other normal cities? I bet they would. Is it the most important thing you could fix for investment now? Maybe. I think the biggest issues for investment right now are the low income level of the population, the financial difficulties of the city, the high level of taxation, and the historic incompetence of the city government, but you could make a case for safety. It probably depends upon exactly what sort of investment you are thinking of--safety is almost certainly the biggest issue in a lot of neighborhoods with respect to residential investment, and also with respect to neighborhood retail. I doubt it is the biggest issue limiting investment downtown or in Midtown. But of course all these things are connected--crime drives out people who can afford to live elsewhere, and concentrated poverty breeds crime. Poor people and low property values mean high tax rates.

In my opinion, the place to start fixing the city is with good governance, because it is more controllable than public safety. There is no reason a poor city has to have a poor government. Part of good governance is running a competent police department. It appears that things are currently moving in the right direction both with the city administration as a whole and with the DPD, but it will be a while before we can tell if there is sustained improvement. Then we will have to see whether competent policing can actually improve public safety, or if it is just too hard.

[sumas]

I am indeed of English extraction though my ancestors have lived in Michigan
for many generations now. They were here before the founding of the
national Republican party in Jackson, Michigan. I am absolutely not being
sarcastic. For many African Americans, whites [[diverse as they are) are
somewhat scary and incomprehensible. We do not belong in their culture
unless we have taken measures to belong, for example attending their churches or being married to one. Most whites don't go to this trouble nor need they go to this trouble. Even so it would be good if they were courteous to African Americans [[as well as anyone else!) a little kindness
will go a long way. For example a smile at a baby or holding a door or
asking if the person is in line and not cutting ahead of them if they are.
They use Ma'am and Sir way more often than the rest of us, Southerners
excepted.

Such a sad post, Maybe you should move to my neighborhood. We are white in a predominantly black neighborhood. I doubt we are incomprehensible. Active in community, active with area children, love our neighbors and they love us. Keep our business in Detroit. Everyone addresses me as MIss su or Lady Su and I return the same compliment. My pastor is black our nearest and dear friends are black. My Dr is black, my dentist is black. I get hugs and kisses every where I go.So be a little careful with condemnations of white folk

[Vic01]

After almost being hit, the officers gave chase, but the councilman did not stop. Another car was called in to help with the chase.

The source said officers finally stopped Cushingberry’s car and spotted the open alcohol container and smelled marijuana.

“When they finally stopped him, he took off again,” the source said. “Then, he was stopped a second time and [[Cushingberry) flashed his City Council ID card. There was another guy in the car who had a medical marijuana card, but it doesn’t matter; you’re not allowed to smoke in the car."

What does this post have to do with Belle Isle? Did Cushingberry get busted again, or what?

[ABetterDetroit]

Sorry did not read all the posts but it is disgusting that public officials do not believe laws apply to them.

Equally astounding when considering that a former mayor and council presedent not to long ago were convicted of felonies and sent to prison. I would think that would be a strong reminder that laws apply to everyone.

[sumas]

Forgot to say we have a black man living in our house. He is now back to work and attending community college. He thinks we are just fine. Our area kids, too cool, last fall I was raking leafs and little Miss Denise came down, "Miss Su you are being wasteful. I had yard waste bags, she jumped into them and compacted those leafs. 15 bags went to an area community garden.

Blacks and whites co exist just fine. Pick the right neighborhood. I adore my area kids and it does take a Village. This neighborhood has a huge heart.

[sumas]

I have been to Belle Isle I do see progress. It's a wonderful thing.

[mwilbert]

I would contend that current crime rates is the primary current issue. Crime from the mayor on down to the lowest of the street people.

But, again, even if crime is the primary issue [[which I think is fair, although I would say first among many), that doesn't mean that all the issues are crime, or that all the issues are/were caused by current Detroiters.

Probably you say.... That is sort of like saying "Probably if you walk in a heavy rain storm you'll get wet" Until all of us simply accept what the situation is, there can never be a fix.
Think of it like this, when it rains and the roof leaks, lets go fix the plumbing.

No it isn't. If you walk outside in a heavy rain without protection you will get wet. This isn't a probability, but a certainty. On the other hand, no one knows who commits all the crimes in the city. No one even knows what all the crimes are. And of course "vast majority" itself is open to interpretation. Do I think that the vast majority of crimes in Detroit are committed by Detroiters? Yes. Do I know that for certain? No. Hence "probably".

Lets see... I want to open a grocery store and I can choose to open it in Detroit or Grand Rapids. Wait a minute, most grocery stores have already made that choice.

It is obvious Detroit could use some more supermarkets. It is not obvious Grand Rapids does. So you open a grocery store in Detroit instead of Grand Rapids because there is an unmet need in Detroit that doesn't exist in Grand Rapids, and you think you can make money opening up a store in Detroit.

I would be the last person to say that safety isn't a huge issue in Detroit. It obviously is, and has been for a long time. But you write as if it is the only issue, and it just isn't. Nor does it stop investment, or make investment stupid. It does reduce the number of investments that get made [[hence fewer, but some, supermarkets) and that is bad enough without exaggerating the problem.