When it's all said and done... Detroit - Renaissance or Continuing Decline?

[motz]

Be proactive, nobody argues Detroit has huge problems. So many of us work with our kids. It is dismal to see Yes turned into anti Detroit.

That's what happens when cranky Ann Arbor/Birmingham/etc residents decide they need to chime in about how terrible Detroit is while refusing to cooperate on making the region better

[jimmyr]

That's what happens when cranky Ann Arbor/Birmingham/etc residents decide they need to chime in about how terrible Detroit is while refusing to cooperate on making the region better

Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and realize something is so lost it isn't worth the money and time. Life is too short to try to save things that can't be saved.

[ghettopalmetto]

Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and realize something is so lost it isn't worth the money and time. Life is too short to try to save things that can't be saved.

Yeah, big picture: Like allowing Detroit to crumble and its people to suffer, while we spend billion$ to pave St. Clair, Lapeer, and Livingston Counties. Good work.

[Honky Tonk]

Yeah, big picture: Like allowing Detroit to crumble and its people to suffer, while we spend billion$ to pave St. Clair, Lapeer, and Livingston Counties. Good work.

Let's be fair, St. Clair, Lapeer, and Livingston Counties are major tax base contributers, Detroit isn't. Until Detroit becomes a player, it's going to be hard to advocate sinking even more tax money into it. A classic example is the current State/EFM scenario. Instead of looking @ this as an opportunity, most view it as a negative. I am totally against throwing more money @ Detroit until there is some sort of responsible accountability and management system in place. Ask yourself just who it was that allowed Detroit to "crumble and it's people to suffer" in the first place? It'll be interesting to see how Detroit plays out once the EFM leaves. I hope it won't be "business as usual".

[jimmyr]

It'll be interesting to see how Detroit plays out once the EFM leaves. I hope it won't be "business as usual".

Seems like every story out of Detroit the last 6 months is more of the same. The crooks have a very firm 50-year grip on the city. The EM could only go so far. Snyder and Orr would have loved to kick the council and most of the municipal workers to the curb...they couldn't. And Detroit just keeps voting in the same losers. How can anyone be optimistic about Detroit? Sorry, it takes more than a Whole Foods and a clean Belle Isle to make a difference.

[sumas]

Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and realize something is so lost it isn't worth the money and time. Life is too short to try to save things that can't be saved.

hey I don't feel lost, I can find my home. Detroit still has value, our kids have value. I wish I could somehow better express my love for my community. Issues are for sure, MY area kids the best. They have great needs but are so special in so many ways.So respectful, so helpful. I'll be posting on connect for ideas to do with MYKIDS. Don't count Detroit out as a huge loss.

As mentioned before, my home is insured for half a million my garage for 46k. Some insurers still believe in city. Never made a claim, don't need to.

Sorry I get ticked when people keep discounting Detroit as viable.

[Honky Tonk]

How can anyone be optimistic about Detroit? Sorry, it takes more than a Whole Foods and a clean Belle Isle to make a difference.

Don't be sorry, you don't have to be. You're entitled to your opinions just like others here are entitled to theirs. As I've posted before, living in Detroit isn't for everybody, and Detroit sure as hell doesn't try to be.

[Islandman]

Sorry I get ticked when people keep discounting Detroit as unviable.

Fixed that for you sumas.

[SWMAP]

I always get a kick out of this summation above: “MY area kids the best.”
Isn’t it such a classic example of the Lake Woebegone Effect?

“The Lake Wobegon effect is the human tendency to overestimate one's achievements and capabilities in relation to others.
It is named for the fictional town of Lake Wobegon from the radio series A Prairie Home Companion, where, according to Garrison Keillor, "all the children are above average. “

[iheartthed]

Let's be fair, St. Clair, Lapeer, and Livingston Counties are major tax base contributers, Detroit isn't. Until Detroit becomes a player, it's going to be hard to advocate sinking even more tax money into it. A classic example is the current State/EFM scenario. Instead of looking @ this as an opportunity, most view it as a negative. I am totally against throwing more money @ Detroit until there is some sort of responsible accountability and management system in place. Ask yourself just who it was that allowed Detroit to "crumble and it's people to suffer" in the first place? It'll be interesting to see how Detroit plays out once the EFM leaves. I hope it won't be "business as usual".

I find it very hard to believe that St. Clair county's 84,000 residents are contributing more to the state than Detroit's 700,000 residents, as well as being the headquarter of Michigan's largest private employer.

[dtowncitylover]

So this is my rant:

I just don't get people who say that Detroit is dead and that it's never going to come back and we might as well board it up and call it quits. Human history is 10,000 years old, civilization has been around for let's say 4,000, Western civilzation about 1500 years, American history bout 500, Detroit history 300 years, and all of this decline has only been going on about 40. We still have much more history to make. Detroit still has a population to keep up. Which includes her suburban neighbors. It would be a sad, cold black hole if Detroit is suddenly "dead". Stop saying Detroit is going to continue to decline and decline because I don't think you know what you mean you say that. In fact, you sound very ignorant when you say that. ~700,000 people live in Detroit, with many thousands more commuting to and from the city everyday and visiting. There isn't going to be, as much as you might like it, going to be this great mass exodus like the India-Pakistan partition!

Rome is a perfect example of a city that's been completely destroyed and sacked so many times and now look, it's a tourist destination!

We can all bitch and moan about how awful the education, public safety, city services are but those are human problems that can be solved. It's not like a giant volcano suddenly popped and is spewing lava everywhere. We can solve problems, thanks to our brain that discerns reason and produces solutions. Are they going to be the best solutions or the right ideas? NO. Because we are human. But we can save Detroit. Will it be 2 million again? You can't say no because you don't know, it could be. But we can start to rebuild a city that's at least functional.


[[Instead of saying, Detroit is dead and there's nothing we can do. Maybe use your brain and reason, Detroit has heavily declined, what were the causes and effects and what could be done to help it and how could I help?)

I think once we have a functional Detroit, we will see Detroit's population stablize and even rise. We need to rezone and replan parts of the city so that we can have that urban landscape found in New York.

I am optimistic in the future because I see what could be. Some people are pessimistic because they are nostalgic and wish it was still.

Please note: "you" and "your" are not directed toward anyone specifically.

[canuck]

So this is my rant:

I just don't get people who say that Detroit is dead and that it's never going to come back and we might as well board it up and call it quits. Human history is 10,000 years old, civilization has been around for let's say 4,000, Western civilzation about 1500 years, American history bout 500, Detroit history 300 years, and all of this decline has only been going on about 40. We still have much more history to make. Detroit still has a population to keep up. Which includes her suburban neighbors. It would be a sad, cold black hole if Detroit is suddenly "dead". Stop saying Detroit is going to continue to decline and decline because I don't think you know what you mean you say that. In fact, you sound very ignorant when you say that. ~700,000 people live in Detroit, with many thousands more commuting to and from the city everyday and visiting. There isn't going to be, as much as you might like it, going to be this great mass exodus like the India-Pakistan partition!

Rome is a perfect example of a city that's been completely destroyed and sacked so many times and now look, it's a tourist destination!

We can all bitch and moan about how awful the education, public safety, city services are but those are human problems that can be solved. It's not like a giant volcano suddenly popped and is spewing lava everywhere. We can solve problems, thanks to our brain that discerns reason and produces solutions. Are they going to be the best solutions or the right ideas? NO. Because we are human. But we can save Detroit. Will it be 2 million again? You can't say no because you don't know, it could be. But we can start to rebuild a city that's at least functional.


[[Instead of saying, Detroit is dead and there's nothing we can do. Maybe use your brain and reason, Detroit has heavily declined, what were the causes and effects and what could be done to help it and how could I help?)

I think once we have a functional Detroit, we will see Detroit's population stablize and even rise. We need to rezone and replan parts of the city so that we can have that urban landscape found in New York.

I am optimistic in the future because I see what could be. Some people are pessimistic because they are nostalgic and wish it was still.

Please note: "you" and "your" are not directed toward anyone specifically.

It's definitely all about finding solutions. Early Detroiters had their lot of troubles and they managed to build something great. Detroit is on its way up and out of misery.

[jimmyr]

So this is my rant:

I just don't get people who say that Detroit is dead and that it's never going to come back and we might as well board it up and call it quits. Human history is 10,000 years old, civilization has been around for let's say 4,000, Western civilzation about 1500 years, American history bout 500, Detroit history 300 years, and all of this decline has only been going on about 40. We still have much more history to make. Detroit still has a population to keep up. Which includes her suburban neighbors. It would be a sad, cold black hole if Detroit is suddenly "dead". Stop saying Detroit is going to continue to decline and decline because I don't think you know what you mean you say that. In fact, you sound very ignorant when you say that. ~700,000 people live in Detroit, with many thousands more commuting to and from the city everyday and visiting. There isn't going to be, as much as you might like it, going to be this great mass exodus like the India-Pakistan partition!

Rome is a perfect example of a city that's been completely destroyed and sacked so many times and now look, it's a tourist destination!

We can all bitch and moan about how awful the education, public safety, city services are but those are human problems that can be solved. It's not like a giant volcano suddenly popped and is spewing lava everywhere. We can solve problems, thanks to our brain that discerns reason and produces solutions. Are they going to be the best solutions or the right ideas? NO. Because we are human. But we can save Detroit. Will it be 2 million again? You can't say no because you don't know, it could be. But we can start to rebuild a city that's at least functional.


[[Instead of saying, Detroit is dead and there's nothing we can do. Maybe use your brain and reason, Detroit has heavily declined, what were the causes and effects and what could be done to help it and how could I help?)

I think once we have a functional Detroit, we will see Detroit's population stablize and even rise. We need to rezone and replan parts of the city so that we can have that urban landscape found in New York.

I am optimistic in the future because I see what could be. Some people are pessimistic because they are nostalgic and wish it was still.

Please note: "you" and "your" are not directed toward anyone specifically.

I don't believe anyone thinks a city will never come back, but people do a cost-benefit analysis on whether or not it's worth it to try. We don't have unlimited time on earth and we don't have unlimited money to being a tormented city back. You want to spend your entire life hoping Detroit comes back [[whatever comeback even means), that's fine. But most people aren't going to dedicate their life and money trying to bring back something, when there are more viable cities to live in -- and especially not when they had nothing to do with its collapse. Furthermore, Detroit's been given a hell of a lot of money since the Lyndon B. Johnson administration, and it's gotten a hell of a lot worse. You only have one life to live, it's not surprising that people aren't eager to spend it trying to bring back the most corrupt and dangerous city in America. To the rest of the country, Detroit is just a boom town that is no longer relevant. You'll notice the only major investors are local guys, with business interests in the region. Nobody else believes the city will make a comeback.

[sumas]

MYKIDS are worth it. Detroit will never be what it was. So what! I have tremendous faith in what it will be.

[corktownyuppie]

So this is my rant:

I just don't get people who say that Detroit is dead and that it's never going to come back and we might as well board it up and call it quits. Human history is 10,000 years old, civilization has been around for let's say 4,000, Western civilzation about 1500 years, American history bout 500, Detroit history 300 years, and all of this decline has only been going on about 40.

It's amazing how short people's memories are. It was only 1 generation ago when NYC was on the precipice of bankruptcy and most people have forgotten.

I got a phone call at work today calling concerned about how the potential collapse of Ukraine could destroy the world economy. I reminded him that Less than 5 years ago, Iceland claimed complete insolvency. It was a big deal at the time, but in the big picture, it hardly meant anything.

[[Instead of saying, Detroit is dead and there's nothing we can do. Maybe use your brain and reason, Detroit has heavily declined, what were the causes and effects and what could be done to help it and how could I help?)

It frustrates me as well that people like to focus on complaining more than fixing.

That said, there may something to examine here. It's impossible to be rational and use the power of reason when you are overwhelmed by emotions.

And if there's one thing about Detroit [[region, not just the city), is that emotions are still very, very, very raw about the 50-year decline of Detroit.

There is a solution to this, and that's to promote the dissipation of emotion, rather than get people even more riled up. But the problem is that whether it's the media or politicians, everyone sees firing up the emotions as the way to control or influence human behavior.

There's not a lot that we can do about this. I think the only solution is to be willing to put your own emotions aside when other people [[like Brenda Jones, for example) get over-emotional. Do you want to react to her anger with more of your anger? Which stokes more of hers? It's a never-ending cycle, and the next thing you know, everyone is pounding on the table yelling, "Well this is Detroit, and that's just how it is."

Rather react to her anger with more of your anger, be the one that lets the steam out and bring the temperature down.

But for as long as everyone is still running around angry all the time, it's gonna be hard to get people to be reasonable.

[piczka]

Love Detroit for what it is, and always has been, a blue collar, shot and a beer town. No more and no less. It is not a bad way to go and I can think of a lot of places worse off! Let us be thankful for what we have remaining, given the holocaust of the last 60 years.

[night-timer]

It's amazing how short people's memories are. It was only 1 generation ago when NYC was on the precipice of bankruptcy and most people have forgotten.

Yes, I've been meaning to ask Detroiters how they felt about NYC's resurgence from its darkest, most blighted days in 1977, when the city verged on bankruptcy and organized crime almost controlled the city. Safest big city in the world now, I'm told... but there is [[I guess) a wider range of businesses and industries attracted to that city than Detroit has.

[313WX]

but there is [[I guess) a wider range of businesses and industries attracted to that city than Detroit has.

Bingo!!! Even during NYC's darkest years, it was still the wealthiest and most diverse major city in the country that maintained a relatively healthy and diverse economy.

Not to mention, NYC's infrastructure was never gutted to the extent Detroit's has been. At most, NYC lost maybe 1 million people doing those so called dark years, roughly 10% of its peak population. Detroit has lost 2/3 of its peak population and continues to decline. Just like in the 1950s, NYC is still infamous for Times Squares, its Brownstones, Broadway and its Subway. In what way does Detroit even remotely resemble the city it was in the 1950s?

It's really condescending, at best, for people to compare what happened in Rome [[which was entirely the result of a political collapse) and NYC with what's happening in Detroit.

[Honky Tonk]

I find it very hard to believe that St. Clair county's 84,000 residents are contributing more to the state than Detroit's 700,000 residents, as well as being the headquarter of Michigan's largest private employer.

I find it hard to believe that St. Clair county needs 140 square miles of City services.

[Honky Tonk]

Bingo!!! Even during NYC's darkest years, it was still the wealthiest and most diverse major city in the country that maintained a relatively healthy and diverse economy.

Not to mention, NYC's infrastructure was never gutted to the extent Detroit's has been. At most, NYC lost maybe 1 million people doing those so called dark years, roughly 10% of its peak population. Detroit has lost 2/3 of its peak population and continues to decline. Just like in the 1950s, NYC is still infamous for Times Squares, its Brownstones, Broadway and its Subway. In what way does Detroit even remotely resemble the city it was in the 1950s?

It's really condescending, at best, for people to compare what happened in Rome [[which was entirely the result of a political collapse) and NYC with what's happening in Detroit.

I don't know, people are already profiting from giving Detroit ruin tours.

[313WX]

BTW, NYC received a several Billion dollar bailout from the US government. The best Detroit got [[with a gun to his head) was $350 Million from a fascist state government that went strictly towards bailing out the retirees.

[illwill]

That's what happens when cranky Ann Arbor/Birmingham/etc residents decide they need to chime in about how terrible Detroit is while refusing to cooperate on making the region better

You forgot to mention Detroiter's too...

[313WX]

You forgot to mention Detroiter's too...

The difference is, Detroiters are entitled to be negative about the city.

They live in the city and experience its elements every single day, versus other residents of "SE Michigan" who haven't been into the city for years or decades [[if ever) aside from a baseball/football/hockey game.

[sumas]

For what it is worth, my husband is hospitalized, detroiters have big hearts and lots of love. Due to their church affiliations there is now more than 9000 people praying for him. To me that is a WOW.

My Detroit is not dead. My neighbors the best.

I do agree being shirty and all, I live here and have a great clue as to what is right and what is wrong. I love my city, we do what we can to foster the next generation. I can crab all I want or extol what is good. I live this! So arm chair critics from afar mean nothing.

[nickstone]

I spent five years downtown... I could never afford to live there anymore... way too expensive. But as much as it seems counter-intuitive to me, I guess the strategy of raising rent in order to get a "different class" of people into the city is working... I had no idea! I really think things are gonna be different, especially downtown, because these people [[I have no idea who they are except that the folks I bought a toaster oven from at the former Millender Center apts were two early 20-somethings who looked like they belonged in an Abercrombie catalog) are spending between 1000 and 4500 a month to live down there... the stores and every day conveniences are gonna have to follow... and I'll watch it happen and see it when I go there for work or a Tigers or Wings game. My time down there was a blast but when I moved out of Trolley Plaza the rent for my wonderful corner 20th story unit was about 700 a month... the front desk guy Al [[who is awesome) last told me it is about a grand for that unit. I can't imagine who has that money for a one bedroom unit but the people are there! Downtown has not been this crowded in decades! So, I see this effort as one that I think might really work... even if it puts us "normals" out of the mix...