An outsider's first question - Amalgamation

[Wesley Mouch]

If Detroit hasn't even annexed Highland Park or Hamtramck it's not amalgamating anything.
Me, I don't understand why some of the suburbs just don't merge into single entities. Why doesn't Fraser merge with Roseville? Or Oak Park with Ferndale?

Power. Who wants to give up their job and their power? Power.

True even for citizens. What citizen wants to have less proportional control over their police department?

For citizens, pride is #2. A feeling that their city is 'better'

Then I'll grant #3 to the race-obsessed here. But I'll call it identity. A 'we' forms in people's mind. Others become 'they'. Its even easier when they look different -- but frankly it happens even between very similar groups. Easier we you add a dash of racism.

[Hermod]

Power. Who wants to give up their job and their power? Power.

True even for citizens. What citizen wants to have less proportional control over their police department?

For citizens, pride is #2. A feeling that their city is 'better'

Then I'll grant #3 to the race-obsessed here. But I'll call it identity. A 'we' forms in people's mind. Others become 'they'. Its even easier when they look different -- but frankly it happens even between very similar groups. Easier we you add a dash of racism.

Race was not a factor in Avon Township incorporating as the city of Rochester Hills in a doughnut around the city of Rochester to prevent Rochester from annexing "jewels". Of course it is also Rochester's fault as they did not want all of Avon Township, just the "revenue positive" adjacent areas.

[Canadian Visitor]

So.....

If I understand correctly; there is a general agreement that Michigan law would make 'amalgamation' difficult; and further that the political will to impose it, were such legal; just isn't there?

[[anyone correct if I'm misunderstanding)

That does leave a question in my mind though. How do the 'people' feel as a whole, in the Greater Detroit area about this issue?

Is there really no interest in 'streamlined ' government? Or virulent opposition based on .....ideology? classicism? parochialism?

I'm just curious if there is no push for this idea; or great resistance; do people not perceive the great number of tiny jurisdictions as potentially impairing the economic welfare of the region?

Or if they do; is there some other solution which might have more traction?

[EastsideAl]

So.....

If I understand correctly; there is a general agreement that Michigan law would make 'amalgamation' difficult; and further that the political will to impose it, were such legal; just isn't there?

[[anyone correct if I'm misunderstanding)

That does leave a question in my mind though. How do the 'people' feel as a whole, in the Greater Detroit area about this issue?

Is there really no interest in 'streamlined ' government? Or virulent opposition based on .....ideology? classicism? parochialism?

I'm just curious if there is no push for this idea; or great resistance; do people not perceive the great number of tiny jurisdictions as potentially impairing the economic welfare of the region?

Or if they do; is there some other solution which might have more traction?

While there is certainly some interest in greater regional cooperation around here on the part of some people, I don't think it's going too far to say that there is no interest whatsoever in actual governmental consolidation.

In fact, any consolidation with Detroit would be viewed with great horror by most residents outside of the city. And, indeed, consolidation with the suburbs would be viewed similarly by many people in Detroit. The main divider historically, far above all else, has been race [[see: Bradley v. Milliken), and the long racial struggle over access to and control of political power in this area. And that pretty much remains true today [[though finally waning somewhat). There are though several other factors at work as well, including class and wealth divisions, and a very understandable reluctance to become involved in dealing with the city's enormous economic and infrastructural challenges.

I also think that from a distance you probably don't recognize that folks in different parts of this area don't really see themselves as having political and economic interests in common with folks in other other parts, particularly with Detroit itself. In fact, they have often seen their interests as in opposition to and competition with those of nearby communities.

Of course there's also the fact that ruling power, once granted, is very rarely relinquished voluntarily. No matter how small the community, there is always a self-interest on the part of the members of that community, and particularly amongst the political class, in maintaining their separate base of power, control, and financing. And this is especially true for wealthier communities. Our mostly "bottom-up" system of government here in the U.S. [[rather than the "top-down" system in Canada and elsewhere) generally serves to protect those parochial interests and to resist a high degree of centralization.

[DetroitPlanner]

Why do I have the feeling that Canadian Visitor is testing a hypothesis for a Master's Degree paper?

[canuck]

EastsideAl /Of course there's also the fact that ruling power, once granted, is very rarely relinquished voluntarily. No matter how small the community, there is always a self-interest on the part of the members of that community, and particularly amongst the political class, in maintaining their separate base of power, control, and financing. And this is especially true for wealthier communities. Our mostly "bottom-up" system of government here in the U.S. [[rather than the "top-down" system in Canada and elsewhere) generally serves to protect those parochial interests and to resist a high degree of centralization.

Fair bit of truth in that.


Political representation in the United States is a lot more rigorous, and encompasses more functions than they do in Canada and other countries. The fact that sheriffs and judges and D.A.'s get voted in is another ballpark in itself.

Also, if you look at the stupid mess that is Canada's senate, the comedy gets dark pretty quick. Senators are not elected, they are nominated according to rthe ruling party's whims over time, senators are in place for a whole lifetime it seems. We had a senator, Patrick Brazeau, a native leader of sorts from a small community in Quebec be nominated by Harper a coupla years ago. Since then, he has gotten into big trouble for overspending, all kinds of public mischief and beating up on his girlfriend a number of times. The fact that this thirty some odd year old guy was nominated by the conservatives to somehow represent aboriginal interests over a whole spectrum of potential leaders speaks volumes about the utter contempt for aboriginal Canadians.

Anyways this Brazeau finally was kicked out of the Senate and has since taken employment managing a strip joint in Ottawa, was arrested a coupla weeks ago for conjugal threats and roughing up his better half...

Pamela Wallin and Mike Duffy, two national TV reporters and anchors were also
Harper nominated senators and were kicked out as a bunch with Brazeau for unproper spending of public monies, etc...

In 2009, Jacques Demers, the then retired Canadiens hockey coach was nominated by Harper for a seat in the senate. Demers got help writing ... a book about his lifetime ordeal; the fact that all his adult life, he had faked being able to read and write. He had managed to sign contracts, etc... with no knowledge of what was written. He is a pretty decent guy, but still, this

[Canadian Visitor]

Why do I have the feeling that Canadian Visitor is testing a hypothesis for a Master's Degree paper?

No college papers here! LOL [[college was....ummm, a long time ago)

Not saying I would never go back; but posting a question on a forum about a subject that interests me was not an attempt to find sources for a new academic pursuit!

As I said, I did lurk here for awhile; and sometimes just reading comments in passing, especially w/o being able to follow-up just leaves more questions.

[[of which I have plenty by the way, not all about governance models either)