Gilbert states the Pistons should be called the Auburn Hills Pistons

**noggin** · May-24-14, 06:29 PM

After Gilbert said in a radio interview that the Pistons should remove "Detroit" from their name because they play in Auburn Hills, Mich.

ESPN Article

believe14 · May-24-14, 07:45 PM

...says loudmouth mortgage sleazeball who believes in Detroit SO much he lives in Franklin.

**eliboyer** · May-24-14, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by believe14

...says loudmouth mortgage sleazeball who believes in Detroit SO much he lives in Franklin.

...says loudmouth internet tough guy who doesn't grasp that this argument is about the benefits of operating a sports franchise in Downtown Detroit, not living there.

**Bham1982** · May-24-14, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by eliboyer

...says loudmouth internet tough guy who doesn't grasp that this argument is about the benefits of operating a sports franchise in Downtown Detroit, not living there.

You mean because Gilbert is pissed the Pistons aren't further subsidizing his foundering, taxpayer-subsidized, downtown empire?

Gilbert had such an ego he thought his force of will could turn water into wine. Now he realizes he isn't an urban planning messiah, and loudmouth soundbites aren't enough to turn around Detroit.

**Danny** · May-24-14, 08:18 PM

Dan Gilbert is right. Why do we called it Detroit Pistons when basketball team is in Auburn Hills? It should be called ' Auburn Hills Pistons, Oakland County Pistons or better yet Michigan Pistons.'

GUSHI · May-24-14, 08:23 PM

He should buy the Bills and bring them here. We need a 2hd option for a Nfl team,

**eliboyer** · May-24-14, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

You mean because Gilbert is pissed the Pistons aren't further subsidizing his foundering, taxpayer-subsidized, downtown empire?

Gilbert had such an ego he thought his force of will could turn water into wine. Now he realizes he isn't an urban planning messiah, and loudmouth soundbites aren't enough to turn around Detroit.

Where is the notion that his downtown efforts are "foundering" coming from? That's right, from uninformed, disconnected naysayers like yourself. It's a pretty black-and-white thing. What did downtown look like 5 years ago and what does it look like now? Most of the credit can be given to one person.

**poobert** · May-24-14, 09:06 PM

When did this board become 90% uptight, pissy little suburbanites?

He's absolutely right, and he's obviously not an idiot. Auburn Hills isn't even anywhere near Detroit.

Of course when Bham and believe go on vacation they're from Detroit, or when they're rooting for sports teams they're from Detroit, you know, only when it's convenient. It's a joke. Detroit is Detroit. If you're in or from Auburn Hills and calling yourself Detroit you're what's call "a fucking poseur." The Bruins don't play in Newton because they're not the Newton Bruins. What part of "Detroit" don't you understand?

believe14 · May-24-14, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by eliboyer

Where is the notion that his downtown efforts are "foundering" coming from? That's right, from uninformed, disconnected naysayers like yourself. It's a pretty black-and-white thing. What did downtown look like 5 years ago and what does it look like now? Most of the credit can be given to one person.

Five years ago I was still going to Wings, Tigers and Lions games. Detroit certainly doesn't FEEL any different to me in 2014. There's certainly a lot of media hype telling me otherwise, but it's still ghost town at night/weekends unless a game is going on. Last I checked they're still giving college grads rental subsidies to sign leases. I've seen fringe neighborhoods in Chicago COMPLETELY transform in 5 years. With all due respect, I think some of you need more travel under your belt if you think the changes in Detroit are that impressive.

Furthermore, I guarantee you his real estate holdings are bleeding him every month. A confident guy making tons of cash developing property isn't taking a jab at the Pistons.

**Bham1982** · May-24-14, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by eliboyer

Where is the notion that his downtown efforts are "foundering" coming from?

Seems pretty obvious to me. It's been nearly 10 years now since Gilbert made his announcement and all his billions have done little. He has yet to attract one retailer of note. Woodward looks basically the same.

Originally Posted by eliboyer

That's right, from uninformed, disconnected naysayers like yourself. It's a pretty black-and-white thing. What did downtown look like 5 years ago and what does it look like now? Most of the credit can be given to one person.

Downtown looks about the same as 5 years ago, even as the economy has rebounded. I guess we have Gilbert to thank for the stagnant situation? Maybe throw him even more subsidies, and he'll finally attract something other than a bar.

**Scottathew** · May-25-14, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

You mean because Gilbert is pissed the Pistons aren't further subsidizing his foundering, taxpayer-subsidized, downtown empire?

I assume you meant to say "floundering". Either your being disingenuous or your don't work or live downtown. Things have changed tremendously in a matter of a few years.

**Scottathew** · May-25-14, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by believe14

With all due respect, I don't think tremendously means what you think it means. Some of you very clearly haven't spent much time outside of the region. Tremendous change is happening in Chicago, DC, Houston and Dallas... even Grand Rapids, MI... but not Detroit.

If you don't see the change in Detroit, then you're not looking. I'm glad to hear that other places are changing for the better too.

Downtown has had a tremendous change over a five year period. You can deny that, and if you did I would venture to guess that you don't live or work downtown.

I can only hope the Duggan and others are going to bring the same transformations to the neighborhoods. Duggan's administration has reported huge efforts that have happened it just months. I hope it's all true and that in 2015 we'll be looking back in astonishment over what was accomplished in 12 months.

**Danny** · May-25-14, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by believe14

...says loudmouth mortgage sleazeball who believes in Detroit SO much he lives in Franklin.

That is why we called it Freedom of Speech.

**nain rouge** · May-25-14, 08:30 AM

Downtown Detroit has improved. The problem is that it had a ridiculously huge hole to climb out of. There are more businesses, no doubt, but they're still just trying to save what's left. And we as see with examples like SkyBar Lounge, sometimes a decent bar isn't enough to make a true difference - the David Stott is still in a precarious position, with slum landlords.

Also, Detroit - like many downtowns in big cities - has a vibrancy "handicap" thanks to modernist developments. You might love staring at Minoru Yamasaki's additions to the skyline, but a fat lot of good that does for the pedestrians that don't work in his buildings. The casinos, too, are monolithic and try to suck people out of downtown [[Greektown, anyone?). Hell, the Guardian Building is beautiful, but what does it really do for vibrancy on the street level?

And if there is a successful restaurant or what have you, whoever owns the nearby parking gets greedy and tries to charge an arm and leg [[and, of course, is usually sandwiched between abandoned buildings). Meanwhile, the meter maids are waiting like vultures for you to park at a broken meter. Fun, fun, fun.

One of Detroit's biggest mistakes has been the city's maniacal focus on downtown, fed by delusions of grandeur that seem to assume that SKYSCRAPERS = MANHATTAN!!!! Fact is, as long as the car is king, the days of the entire metropolitan area streaming into downtown to do everything are over. No big city really has that anymore. The real life, the real draw, and the real taxes are the neighborhoods. When you go to Manhattan on vacation, you generally don't go to the central business district at night to get your kicks. You go to a hip neighborhood.

**illwill** · May-25-14, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Downtown Detroit has improved. The problem is that it had a ridiculously huge hole to climb out of. There are more businesses, no doubt, but they're still just trying to save what's left. And we as see with examples like SkyBar Lounge, sometimes a decent bar isn't enough to make a true difference - the David Stott is still in a precarious position, with slum landlords.

Also, Detroit - like many downtowns in big cities - has a vibrancy "handicap" thanks to modernist developments. You might love staring at Minoru Yamasaki's additions to the skyline, but a fat lot of good that does for the pedestrians that don't work in his buildings. The casinos, too, are monolithic and try to suck people out of downtown [[Greektown, anyone?). Hell, the Guardian Building is beautiful, but what does it really do for vibrancy on the street level?

And if there is a successful restaurant or what have you, whoever owns the nearby parking gets greedy and tries to charge an arm and leg [[and, of course, is usually sandwiched between abandoned buildings). Meanwhile, the meter maids are waiting like vultures for you to park at a broken meter. Fun, fun, fun.

One of Detroit's biggest mistakes has been the city's maniacal focus on downtown, fed by delusions of grandeur that seem to assume that SKYSCRAPERS = MANHATTAN!!!! Fact is, as long as the car is king, the days of the entire metropolitan area streaming into downtown to do everything are over. No big city really has that anymore. The real life, the real draw, and the real taxes are the neighborhoods. When you go to Manhattan on vacation, you generally don't go to the central business district at night to get your kicks. You go to a hip neighborhood.

This post pretty much puts things in perspective. If you put Detroit's improvements into context, the city has made leaps and bounds. But we're talking a central business district and Cass Corridor that at one time didn't even have a single McDonald's [[except the failed McD's at Commerica Park), no Starbucks and I could obviously go on. We're making strides but very slow strides. Like nain rouge said, we were NEGATIVE. IN THE HOLE! AT AN UNIMAGINABLE LEVEL. Let's just hope we can sustain long enough to survive, because people who moved to Detroit to give the city a chance are already leaving because it hasn't panned out to what they thought it would be. Or it didn't live up to the media hype. People have decided to relocate to other cities that offer a better functioning urban scene. You only live once and people are choosing to be in a place that's ready made. But to say we haven't made noticeable improvements is a false statement. Is the city "bustling", "vibrant", "buzzing" or "energetic?" No. And far from it. But is it better than a few years back? Yes.

**stinkytofu** · May-25-14, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by illwill

This post pretty much puts things in perspective. If you put Detroit's improvements into context, the city has made leaps and bounds. But we're talking a central business district and Cass Corridor that at one time didn't even have a single McDonald's [[except the failed McD's at Commerica Park), no Starbucks and I could obviously go on. We're making strides but very slow strides. Like nain rouge said, we were NEGATIVE. IN THE HOLE! AT AN UNIMAGINABLE LEVEL. Let's just hope we can sustain long enough to survive, because people who moved to Detroit to give the city a chance are already leaving because it hasn't panned out to what they thought it would be. Or it didn't live up to the media hype. People have decided to relocate to other cities that offer a better functioning urban scene. You only live once and people are choosing to be in a place that's ready made. But to say we haven't made noticeable improvements is a false statement. Is the city "bustling", "vibrant", "buzzing" or "energetic?" No. And far from it. But is it better than a few years back? Yes.

Great post. We aren't "vibrant", but it is ludicrous to claim downtown isn't better than it was 5, 10, 15 years ago.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · May-25-14, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

as been the city's maniacal focus on downtown, fed by delusions of grandeur that seem to assume that SKYSCRAPERS = MANHATTAN!!!! Fact is, as long as the car is king, the days of the entire metropolitan area streaming into downtown to do everything are over. No big city really has that anymore. The real life, the real draw, and the real taxes are the neighborhoods. When you go to Manhattan on vacation, you generally don't go to the central business district at night to get your kicks. You go to a hip neighborhood.

Without knowing it, Dickens wrote about Detroit. Detroit is two cities. Downtown is aggressively coming back to life, with more businesses, visitors, residents, and prosperity every day. That is a good and right. Meanwhile, many [[not all, but many) of our outlying neighborhoods continue the decay seemingly unchecked. It's not that everyone has focused on downtown to deliberately spite the residential areas. It's that downtown's problems were tangible and fixable. You can lure someone in to open a shop, fix a streetlight, play a ballgame. That's downtown. How do help familyless kids? How do thousands of dropouts with drug habits reenter [[or enter) society's mainstream? How does someone with no history of employment in their family get the motivation to get up in the morning and look for a job? Those are our neighborhoods' problems. And they are- in a best case scenario- daunting, very long-term problems. Fixing downtown's problems are a cakewalk compared to the rest of the city.

I also caution everyone not to rely too much on comparisons of Detroit to other cities [[or other cities to each other). Specific things can be compared to each other [[buses in Detroit vs NY, or Detroit's riverfront to Chicago's lakefront, etc). But a thriving Detroit will never look or act like NY or Boston or DC or Chicago, any more than those cities look like each other [[they don't). Detroit doesn't have to emulate any other city to be successful. Some things will look like elsewhere; much won't.

**Bham1982** · May-24-14, 08:02 PM

Gilbert is just mad he owns the Cavs.

GUSHI · May-24-14, 08:22 PM

They are part of Metro Detroit, why to we call the zoo, the Detroit Zoo? If he wanted them in Detroit, he should of bought them,

**Lowell** · May-24-14, 08:32 PM

Not positive for metropolitan union. 'Them and us' talk is our biggest enemy. From outer space we are one big contiguous city. Time to think and act that way. Even Dan Gilbert.

**Danny** · May-24-14, 08:36 PM

When The Lions move to the Pontiac Silverdome in 1975. Should we called the Pontiac Lions?

**jiminnm** · May-25-14, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

When The Lions move to the Pontiac Silverdome in 1975. Should we called the Pontiac Lions?

No. The suggested name at that time until they drafted Barry Sanders was the Pontiac Pussy Cats.

believe14 · May-24-14, 08:41 PM

I can say for absolute certain nobody in my family would be a season ticket holder if they played in Detroit. Nobody has time to drive to Detroit during the work week, park blocks away, etc. As for no entertainment options nearby, NBA and NHL are cold weather seasons. Nobody is bar hopping in December and January.

And the Palace is pretty much the perfect location for concerts.

**eliboyer** · May-24-14, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by believe14

I can say for absolute certain nobody in my family would be a season ticket holder if they played in Detroit. Nobody has time to drive to Detroit during the work week, park blocks away, etc. As for no entertainment options nearby, NBA and NHL are cold weather seasons. Nobody is bar hopping in December and January.

And the Palace is pretty much the perfect location for concerts.

NHL and NBA seasons run from Fall to Spring. And as a bar/restaurant operator in the city, I can tell you that people most definitely "bar hop" pre- and post- games all year round, even in the dead of winter. Concerts are not in question here. If the Pistons ever make their way Downtown, The Palace will still exist as a very good concert venue.

believe14 · May-24-14, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by eliboyer

NHL and NBA seasons run from Fall to Spring. And as a bar/restaurant operator in the city, I can tell you that people most definitely "bar hop" pre- and post- games all year round, even in the dead of winter. Concerts are not in question here. If the Pistons ever make their way Downtown, The Palace will still exist as a very good concert venue.

People with jobs and people with kids aren't bar hopping. We have to work the next morning. And we're not getting wrecked with kids in the back seat. Auburn hills is a perfect location for us. Now if only they'd become a good team again so ticket prices can rise and the riff raff stop coming to games.

I can't think of one incentive for the Pistons to separate from a building they own. Do you expect them to build another arena downtown? To pay Illitch to use the wings? That's moronic.