Warren is probably about to be sued over some weird religious stuff at city hall.

[townonenorth]

I think somebody that represents an established religion should set up shop in the Prayer Station. I hear that the tenets of the Pastafarian religion should be good enough to pass muster as a legitimate religion in Warren.

Here's a nice display in Florida's State Capitol. Good enough for the State of Florida, should be good enough for Warren.

[nain rouge]

It's called punitive damages. In many cases, that's the only inducement to get governments and corporations to change their practices.

I knew that. In this case, I don't agree that punitive damages are appropriate.

But this is Detroit Yes!, where we think we're clever and smart if we debate by acting like anyone that disagrees with us must be disagreeing because they're ignorant of basic concepts.

Guess what? It doesn't make you look smart. It doesn't convince anyone you're right. It's just friggin' annoying. I already got into it with that Bham guy about this very problem.

Find a new shtick.

[Detroitnerd]

[/COLOR]
I knew that. In this case, I don't agree that punitive damages are appropriate.

But this is Detroit Yes!, where we think we're clever and smart if we debate by acting like anyone that disagrees with us must be disagreeing because they're ignorant of basic concepts.

Guess what? It doesn't make you look smart. It doesn't convince anyone you're right. It's just friggin' annoying. I already got into it with that Bham guy about this very problem.

Find a new shtick.

Hardly, nain. I think you're totally confused about the tone I took with that message. I saw a documentary about it recently and it kind of opened my eyes to how little most people know about the civil court system, so I'm sharing that.

And if you have real reasons to be opposed to that part of the civil court system, I'd like to hear them.

Trust me, I'm not concerned about appearing smart on an Internet forum. I have a life away from this forum that's challenging and satisfying and I don't really care what people think of me on here. This is a place to have some fun, blow off some steam, have some debates and learn a thing or two.

I've found you to be a good contributor in the past, nain, so it's a little sad to see you jumping off the deep end this morning, but ... maybe once you get more coffee in you you'll see my original tone was neutral enough.

[brizee]

http://www.freep.com/article/2014072...-prayer-reason

[313WX]

http://www.freep.com/article/2014072...-prayer-reason

Good for him.

[jackie5275]

I'm somewhat surprised that this prayer station has been up since 2009 and is just now being challenged. I would've thought it would've been challenged right away or at least in the first year of its existence.

[Honky Tonk]

http://www.freep.com/article/2014072...-prayer-reason

I don't think the atheists have a prayer.

[Novine]

A loser lawsuit for Warren. Fouts isn't going to win this one.

[jt1]

A loser lawsuit for Warren. Fouts isn't going to win this one.

Correct it is a loser for Warren but a winner for Fouts. The demographics he courts for reelection seem to love this type of non-sense even if it costs Warren and Warren taxpayers.

[313WX]

Correct it is a loser for Warren but a winner for Fouts. The demographics he courts for reelection seem to love this type of non-sense even if it costs Warren and Warren taxpayers.

Well obviously the majority of these taxpayers don't care about the costs incurred for these types of issues if they've been reelecting Fouts.

[Scottathew]

One needs to consider that Christianity has been close to a state-religion for much of our history. So I am in favor of grandfathering in some religious references in our civic life -- but not adding. We can respect existing traditions while not bringing new ones along with us as we modernize our civic institutions. I just don't see the need for a fight here. No new religious activities from government. Existing traditions can continue to live for now out of respect for our elders. We seem to have forgotten how to get along. It requires some compromise -- not a quoting of a high court decision.

I disagree with you, your logic is flawed.

Our government represents everyone, not just Christians. There is ZERO need to have religion at city hall, whatsoever.

Warren can solve all this very quickly by booting out the regions, and then they can tell the atheists to take a hike too.


Wesley, your logic could be applied to other things as well. "Well, we've been doing slavery for blacks much of our history. I am in favor of grandfathering slavery for blacks -- but not adding more races. We can respect existing traditions like slavery for blacks while not bringing new races along with us as we modernize our civil rights. I just don't see the need for a fight here."

Past practice doesn't mean that something is right.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Douglas Marshall, a member of Freedom From Religion, made a request with the city in April to put up a table inside the atrium of city hall to promote free thought, use of reason and logic and separation of church and state.

Let's save the citizens of Warren from that dangerous free thought, reason and logic.

[gnome]

In my youth I never really understood how folks could get upset with Baby Jesus on the front yard of City Hall. It seemed to me that it didn't cause any harm and was kind of nice with the lowing sheep and cows. Likewise I bristled at the year end Holiday Concert instead of a Christms concert. Heck, who cares about Angels Harking or being Away in a Manger..

then i I happened to be in Pocatello Idaho one year at Christmas time. Turns out there was this mom who complained about the Christmas pageant and didn't want her child to participate. Pocatello had a high Mormon population and they incorporated the Joseph Smith story into the myth of Jesus' birth and that rubbed the Catholic mother as wrong.

This was at a public school and the mom didn't think any of her tax dollars should be spent teaching her child all about the golden tablets and th angel Moroni and the lost tribe of Israel or any of the nonsense.

her objection led to her lawn being torn up by donut lovers and she was generally harassed.

since then, I clearly understand how the State should not support any belief system.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

In my youth I never really understood how folks could get upset with Baby Jesus on the front yard of City Hall. It seemed to me that it didn't cause any harm and was kind of nice with the lowing sheep and cows. Likewise I bristled at the year end Holiday Concert instead of a Christms concert. Heck, who cares about Angels Harking or being Away in a Manger..

then i I happened to be in Pocatello Idaho one year at Christmas time. Turns out there was this mom who complained about the Christmas pageant and didn't want her child to participate. Pocatello had a high Mormon population and they incorporated the Joseph Smith story into the myth of Jesus' birth and that rubbed the Catholic mother as wrong.

This was at a public school and the mom didn't think any of her tax dollars should be spent teaching her child all about the golden tablets and th angel Moroni and the lost tribe of Israel or any of the nonsense.

her objection led to her lawn being torn up by donut lovers and she was generally harassed.

since then, I clearly understand how the State should not support any belief system.

Its amazing [[not) how the people advocating for government or school involvement in religious displays, etc are virtually always in the majority sect for that locale. Such as Mormons in Pocatello. Now if one of the Pocatello families moved to a predominately Catholic area and found a Christmas pageant with Catholic theology interwoven, they might have a different opinion all of a sudden. Or what if they happened to relocate to New York into a largely Jewish neighborhood and had a Hanukkah celebration instead of a Christmas pageant? They'd be the first to scream about being discriminated against. But people shouldn't have to face these situations to realize that religion needs to be kept out of the public sphere.

I wonder how the esteemed Mayor would feel if it was the Church of Satan which wanted to maintain the "prayer station". Or if Satanists were there praying to the Lord of Darkness every day, and imploring Beezlebub to pay a visit to City Hall? Methinks the Mayor would have a sudden change of heart

[brizee]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...like-nazis-kkk

"The city has certain values that I don't believe are in general agreement with having an atheist station, nor in general agreement with having a Nazi station or Klu Klux Klan station,"..."I cannot accept or will not allow a group that is disparaging of another group to have a station here."

[Jimaz]

Wait. Weren't the Nazis and the Klu Klux Klan said to be theist organizations?

But to be fair, Mayor Disputes Report That He Compared Atheists To KKK.

I can't believe they couldn't have anticipated this can of worms from the start. It's as if they set a trap and then jumped into it themselves.

[313WX]

Wait. Weren't the Nazis and the Klu Klux Klan said to be theist organizations?

But to be fair, Mayor Disputes Report That He Compared Atheists To KKK.

I can't believe they couldn't have anticipated this can of worms from the start. It's as if they set a trap and then jumped into it themselves.

Well, it IS Warren, and we are talking about Jim Fouts...

I 100% believe he said what brizee quoted, given his track record.

[Jimaz]

... Here's a nice display in Florida's State Capitol....

HA! That was a bit hard to read so I looked it up. It says, "A closed mouth catches no noodly appendages. ProvHerbs 3:27.”

It's hard to argue with that.

[motz]

Well, it IS Warren, and we are talking about Jim Fouts...

I 100% believe he said what brizee quoted, given his track record.

I was really disappointed to learn that all of my atheist friends are as big of troublemakers as the KKK or the Nazis Jim Fouts, I really hope you can help rebirth the region into the arms of totally intolerant "religious" beliefs. People who believe in things that you don't are just oh-so-terrible

[erikd]

One needs to consider that Christianity has been close to a state-religion for much of our history. So I am in favor of grandfathering in some religious references in our civic life -- but not adding. We can respect existing traditions while not bringing new ones along with us as we modernize our civic institutions. I just don't see the need for a fight here. No new religious activities from government. Existing traditions can continue to live for now out of respect for our elders. We seem to have forgotten how to get along. It requires some compromise -- not a quoting of a high court decision.

Even if we go by your opinion of allowing existing religious traditions to continue out of respect for elders and history, this situation does not qualify. Since when are "prayer stations" in government buildings an American tradition? This prayer station was set up in 2009. It's not like it has been there for generations.