SMART Bus system’s fate in hands of voters.

[SyGolden48236]

You can't take risks you can't afford. I mean really, that's reality 101. Part of the reason why the gap has expanded is because the middle and lower classes make less money [[paying taxes on their earnings while others use tax loopholes, deductions and other accounting tricks not available to those people to avoid doing so) which means they can't take as much risk without possibly putting not just their livelihood, but their entire existence in jeopardy.

And please note, you're way way overgeneralizing with the stereotypical, GOP-inflated caricature of a "Tax-and-spend Liberal". I believe that corporations and wealthy individuals should pay taxes just as you and I do. I don't make an amazing sum of money, but I pay my taxes because I believe in paying for services rendered to me by the government. They fix my roads, they educated me, they allowed for me to continue to afford food while I was unemployed, you catch the drift. The inability for a corporate entity that is making massive amounts of profits to pay back into a system from which they benefit through the construction and maintenance of infrastucture [[which they use quite frequently) as well as the trade treaties arranged by our government, the protections of a legal system, the protections of the patent system, I could go on and on. The point remains - people [[which includes corporations now, thanks to your Corporatist sect) who benefit from the system should pay into the system just as you and I do.

I know it is over your head that people should pay for services rendered, but that's what it boils down to. Major corporations have allowed for this country to become an amazingly strong world power, but now they seem to feel that because they helped build the palace, they shouldn't have to do any maintenance work because they are above it.

Can't take risks you cannot afford? Oh please. What you're really saying is "I don't want to try something new because I might fail and that would hurt my feelings because mommy always said I am special and I'm the best kid in the world."

And please spare us the standard Democrat talking point that corporations don't pay any taxes, it is simply untrue. I have sat on boards of major corporations. I know from experience.

And you state that there are no tax deductions available for the middle class. Ever hear of the home mortagae interest deduction? I should think you have seeing as how you work in the mortgage industry. How about the deduction for property taxes? Even renters can claim 20% of their rent payments as property tax if they itemize deductions.

Ever hear of the Michigan Homestead Property Tax Credit? Millionaires don't get to claim that one. Even most middle class folks can't claim it as it is not applicable to anyone making over $82,000 per year. But guess what, people of lower incomes can claim it.

[dtowncitylover]

Some people on this forum think that anybody who has more than they do is greedy and gluttonous and that they must be knocked down a peg or two and that their money should be re-distributed.

Knocked down a peg or two? Gee, I wish I could go from being worth $500,000,000 to $300,000,000. I think anyone making over $250,000 lives comfortably enough that a "peg down" wouldn't hurt their standard of living.

For me? Going from $30,000 to $15,000 can be an absolute blow to my finances.

[SyGolden48236]

Knocked down a peg or two? Gee, I wish I could go from being worth $500,000,000 to $300,000,000. I think anyone making over $250,000 lives comfortably enough that a "peg down" wouldn't hurt their standard of living.

For me? Going from $30,000 to $15,000 can be an absolute blow to my finances.

But the guy only making $15,000 a year might think you are living pretty well at $30,000 and that you need to be brought down.

[dtowncitylover]

But the guy only making $15,000 a year might think you are living pretty well at $30,000 and that you need to be brought down.

LOL Then he doesn't have his eyes open to the larger picture.

[SyGolden48236]

LOL Then he doesn't have his eyes open to the larger picture.

It is all relative. Nobody has the right to put a cap on how much wealth someone can accumulate. Should the beloved Saint Daniel of Gilberttown have a cap put on his wealth? Should Bill Gates? Michael Moore? George Soros? Barack Hussein Obama?

What if one day you come up with the next greatest innovation in whatever field you work in and parlay it into a fortune? Should your wealth be limited? Do you know what that would do to innovation and creativity?

This is America. Everyone has the opportunity to succeed as far as their skills and ambition will take them.

[Wesley Mouch]

Knocked down a peg or two? Gee, I wish I could go from being worth $500,000,000 to $300,000,000. I think anyone making over $250,000 lives comfortably enough that a "peg down" wouldn't hurt their standard of living.

For me? Going from $30,000 to $15,000 can be an absolute blow to my finances.

DTCL, the person making $250,000 isn't taking that home in most cases. They are already being taken down a notch. And a big notch if you look at who pays most taxes, both as a percentage of income, and in absolute dollars.

Yes, there are examples of greedy bastards who have the money and ability to have tax experts keep their taxes lower than is fair. But leave aside extreme cases, and recognize that the 'taking down a peg' is already in place.

Some of your $250,000 earners are professionals like dentists who come with very heavy costs to their families and in student debt -- then in starting a business. Sure, in their later years they probably won't be struggling like some. But I prefer a society where its possible to invest in yourself, and then in the end get ahead.

Think about the alternative. Take most of the money over $100,000 away, and then find your qualified professionals move to Mexico. Oh, they won't do that, you say. Look at Windsor and the long-standing exodus of medical talent to the US and think twice.

Sy -- best posts of the month. You have your head screwed on straight. Thanks for tearing down those talking points... they are little more than populism being used to ensconce some rich leftists people in office -- but there I go generalizing.

[dtowncitylover]

It is all relative. Nobody has the right to put a cap on how much wealth someone can accumulate. Should the beloved Saint Daniel of Gilbertown have a cap put on his wealth? Should Bill Gates? Michael Moore? George Soros? Barack Hussein Obama?

What if one day you come up with the next greatest innovation in whatever field you work in and parlay it into a fortune? Should your wealth be limited? Do you know what that would do to innovation and creativity?

This is America. Everyone has the opportunity to succeed as far as their skills and ambition will take them.

No one is capping anything. We're talking about taxes creating a society in which all can thrive and succeed.

Innovation and creativity doesn't come from me checking my bank account balance seeing $10,000 less from taxes of the $10,000,000 I already have [[just making up numbers here). It comes from my mind and the inspiration of the life and environment around me.

[SyGolden48236]

No one is capping anything. We're talking about taxes creating a society in which all can thrive and succeed.

Innovation and creativity doesn't come from me checking my bank account balance seeing $10,000 less from taxes of the $10,000,000 I already have [[just making up numbers here). It comes from my mind and the inspiration of the life and environment around me.

You are missing the point entirely. Let's say you have the $10,000,000. Should your tax rate be bumped up to 90%? How is that going to create a society where all can thrive and succeed? You cannot make a poor person successful by punitively taxing a wealthy person.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.

[dtowncitylover]

ake most of the money over $100,000 away, and then find your qualified professionals move to Mexico. Oh, they won't do that, you say. Look at Windsor and the long-standing exodus of medical talent to the US and think twice.

Sy -- best posts of the month. You have your head screwed on straight. Thanks for tearing down those talking points... they are little more than populism being used to ensconce some rich leftists people in office -- but there I go generalizing.

Who in their right mind would love to Mexico? Sure, Windsor to Detroit. But a new dentist from Detroit isn't moving to Mexico. They're moving to Chicago or NY or some other high-end city [[probably with higher taxes!).

His talking points are the exact points the Koch brothers want to be spout out. The rich know what's best so let us run the country so we can continue to implement a caste society.

But it's fun to know that the Koch brothers and Karl Marx had something in common: they wanted the poor to continue to be poor.

[SyGolden48236]

But it's fun to know that the Koch brothers and Karl Marx had something in common: they wanted the poor to continue to be poor.

Ah yes, the Koch brothers, the favorite straw men of the left. You forgot to add George Soros to that list. See, I can play the straw man game too.

Winston Churchill said it best: If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain

[dtowncitylover]

You are missing the point entirely. Let's say you have the $10,000,000. Should your tax rate be bumped up to 90%? How is that going to create a society where all can thrive and succeed? You cannot make a poor person successful by punitively taxing a wealthy person.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.

Well if I had $10,000,000 my tax rate wouldn't be 90%, this is progressive taxing. The 1% would have their tax rate at 90%, hypothetically speaking. Today they pay about 23%. In the 1950s it was 90%.

[dtowncitylover]

Ah yes, the Koch brothers, the favorite straw men of the left. You forgot to add George Soros to that list. See, I can play the straw man game too.

Winston Churchill said it best: If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain

LOL George Soros. He made his money in finance. The Koch brothers got their money in oil and polluting the earth and now paying off legislators to make American an oligarchy. I'll have George Soros any day, thanks.

And Elizabeth Cady Stanton said, "I shall not grow conservative with age."

[SyGolden48236]

Well if I had $10,000,000 my tax rate wouldn't be 90%, this is progressive taxing. The 1% would have their tax rate at 90%, hypothetically speaking. Today they pay about 23%. In the 1950s it was 90%.

Ah yes, awful, vile, hated so-called 1%ers. I thought that term died with that idiotic "occupy" movement nonsense.

A 90% tax rate destroys initiative to produce and encourages a move to a country with lower taxes.

[dtowncitylover]

Ah yes, awful, vile, hated so-called 1%ers. I thought that term died with that idiotic "occupy" movement nonsense.

A 90% tax rate destroys initiative to produce and encourages a move to a country with lower taxes.

Yeah the 1950s were such a dead period in America.

[SyGolden48236]

Yeah the 1950s were such a dead period in America.

With many of those people who had served in WWII and came home with a terrific work ethic and a desire to succeed. Those people didn't vilify the wealthy. They wanted to emulate them and they worked their tails off so they could buy a home, raise their families and save for a decent retirement.

And some of them did go on to own businesses and become millionaires themselves and, in the process, employ multitudes of people. Some of those employees then became wealthy themselves. They worked hard and took risks. Not too many of them laid around bitching about what they don't have and how unfair it is that some folks have more than they did.

[dtowncitylover]

With many of those people who had served in WWII and came home with a terrific work ethic and a desire to succeed. Those people didn't vilify the wealthy. They wanted to emulate them and they worked their tails off so they could buy a home, raise their families and save for a decent retirement.

And some of them did go on to own businesses and become millionaires themselves and, in the process, employ multitudes of people. Some of those employees then became wealthy themselves. They worked hard and took risks. Not too many of them laid around bitching about what they don't have and how unfair it is that some folks have more than they did.

Anyways, this thread is about SMART. But thanks for raising the key issue that our tax system is screwed up and benefits the wealthy to the detriment of the American infrastructure and social welfare system. Which is in poor condition and poorly funded.

[SyGolden48236]

Anyways, this thread is about SMART. But thanks for raising the key issue that our tax system is screwed up and benefits the wealthy to the detriment of the American infrastructure and social welfare system. Which is in poor condition and poorly funded.

Nice try at deflection. That is not the point I am making at all. But you clearly cannot refute what I have said with logic so it is time to put this discussion as it relates to taxation to rest.

I bid you a good day and I hope that you find all the success you desire in life and that you yourself become wealthy. With the right drive, skill and determination it is possible. Masel tov!

[dtowncitylover]

Nice try at deflection. That is not the point I am making at all. But you clearly cannot refute what I have said with logic so it is time to put this discussion as it relates to taxation to rest.

I bid you a good day and I hope that you find all the success you desire in life and that you yourself become wealthy. With the right drive, skill and determination it is possible. Masel tov!

LOL Deflection. This thread was about a local transit agency and you turned into a debate about American taxes.

What was your point?

[SyGolden48236]

I did not turn it into a debate about taxes. I responded to post number 81. And you responded by chiming in with post number 92.

But apparently you did not mind discussing taxes as you joined in the discussion with great gusto. If it was such an affront to your sensibilities then why did you participate?

[dtowncitylover]

I did not turn it into a debate about taxes. I responded to post number 81.

But apparently you did not mind discussing taxes as you joined in the discussion with great gusto. If it was such an affront to your sensibilities then why did you participate?

LOL Well, for one you responded to a guy who actually wanted us to vote AGAINST this millage. For all I know, post #81 was a facetious response to the millage getting passed.

Posts number #83 and #90 are good starters.

[dtowncitylover]

And no, I don't mind discussing subjects like taxes. You never affronted my sensibilities as you have the same talking points as my father and coming from a debate family, I can do this back-and-forth like a pro.

[SyGolden48236]

Your father sounds like a sensible man. I presume you are proud to have him for a father. Mazel tov!

[dtowncitylover]

Your father sounds like a sensible man. I presume you are proud to have him for a father. Mazel tov!

I am, but for other reasons. Being brainwashed by the Koch brothers isn't something to be proud of. L'chaim!

[SyGolden48236]

Again with the Koch brothers straw man.

The "occupy" nonsense is over. There, my straw man beat up your straw man.

[dtowncitylover]

Again with the Koch brothers straw man.

The "occupy" nonsense is over. There, my straw man beat up your straw man.

No, they are a very real threat to American democracy. I know it's easy to turn off the TV, but that doesn't mean it's over.

But it seems your content in your Grosse Pointe Gilded Age culture you've created for yourself.

But I digress.