SMART Bus system’s fate in hands of voters.

[That Great Guy]

Extract from Detroit Newspaper

If $44 Million tax fails, Metro mass transit ends

End of Extract

In just a few weeks, it will be August 2014

Do you know what this means?
Do you know what the ballot wording means?

[Danny]

It means I will vote YES, YES, YES on the Smart bus millage. Mass regional transit means more jobs.

[That Great Guy]

Mr. John Hertel, General Manager of SMART fully supports and backs the $2 Billion Freeway expansions of I-75 and I-94 and the resulting $40 Million per year cuts in operating subsidies from SMART since 1995 to help pay for these monsters.

It was these cuts from the Michigan Department of Transportation from fuel taxes which directly and uniquely caused all the public bus service reduction all over southeast Michigan and not just Livonia.

A peaceful protest at the State Capital in Lansing is planned after the SMART millage renewal is passes next August.

Funding is requested to pay for extensive advertising for this.

Search and Google save the fuel tax org

YES, YES, YES, Danny. Your support is much needed to protest the vast large freeway expansions which take from community transit and the City of Detroit and inner ring suburbs with no regard to putting safety first or decent paying jobs or money to pay for SMART and DDOT

I'm in favor of a 3.5 mil tax mil for SMART. So, tell me Danny? How will a single mother with 3 children working at the Livonia Wal-Mart with no bus service pay for this? You tell me?

A small tax for SMART without federal, state or industry or Wal-Mart money SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCK. And you know this Danny.

Thank you for your post, Danny

Why is Mr. Hertel not on television debating save the fuel tax dot org ?

[Danny]

Mr. John Hertel, General Manager of SMART fully supports and backs the $2 Billion Freeway expansions of I-75 and I-94 and the resulting $40 Million per year cuts in operating subsidies from SMART since 1995 to help pay for these monsters.

It was these cuts from the Michigan Department of Transportation from fuel taxes which directly and uniquely caused all the public bus service reduction all over southeast Michigan and not just Livonia.

A peaceful protest at the State Capital in Lansing is planned after the SMART millage renewal is passes next August.

Funding is requested to pay for extensive advertising for this.

Search and Google save the fuel tax org

YES, YES, YES, Danny. Your support is much needed to protest the vast large freeway expansions which take from community transit and the City of Detroit and inner ring suburbs with no regard to putting safety first or decent paying jobs or money to pay for SMART and DDOT

I'm in favor of a 3.5 mil tax mil for SMART. So, tell me Danny? How will a single mother with 3 children working at the Livonia Wal-Mart with no bus service pay for this? You tell me?

A small tax for SMART without federal, state or industry or Wal-Mart money SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCK. And you know this Danny.

Thank you for your post, Danny

Why is Mr. Hertel not on television debating save the fuel tax dot org ?

Having the Smart bus millage vote for freeways expansions is a misnomer! The Smart bus millage vote is not for freeway expansions it for keep regional transit on the roads. Voting no will eliminate Smart buses on most main roads and destroy regional jobs. This is not a race or freeway expansion matter. It's the Transit Riders United way to Metro-Detroit Area suffer without regional transit. The U.S. Gov't is not going to give their money to keep regional transit going. They say, 'Leave to the American People.' and that's what we're going to be. The Smart bus millage will be strong yes and weak no vote. If you want regional transit out of your list go tell to those park and riders who depend on the Smart buses to get to Downtown Detroit to work and head back home. To me you are one of the folks who contribute to pollution by driving your car back and forth crosstown and wasted over 100 dollars a week on gas.

[That Great Guy]

Prior to 1995, the entire operation of SMART was paid for by the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT.

Today, MDOT has $400 Million to match $1.6 Billion in federal grants for New freeway expansions but no money to pay for the existing large buses they used to pay for prior to 1995. They will have to pay, if you protest for some of them.

The City of Livonia had SMART buses paid for prior to 1995 before the property tax. This makes it a tax shift and the service reductions makes it a tax increase. The reason your NO vote means your tax will not be reduced is because Federal laws prohibit tax shifts for handicapped accessible community transit without first securing permanent alternative funds.

Read the News clip, it does not say SMART will lose $44 Million. That is illegal and is presently being challenged by people like me who want to end the scare tactics and bullying. I also want to end federal and state cuts and fill up the buses. In 2003, I helped SMART program their radios and computers, resulting in full buses on the 285 route and filling up buses on 3 other routes including DDOT

I publicly challenge Mr. John Hertel to a television debate. But not to defeat his tax but to make it work for everyone.

I rely on SMART to get to my job

[DetroitPlanner]

Prior to 1995, the entire operation of SMART was paid for by the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT.

So there were no farebox revenues and everyone rode for free?? MDOT still contributes the same portion of the revenue it always has to transit. The big issue here is that the source is declining due to it being a share of gas tax revenues. Gas is taxed per gallon [[19 cents). Since vehicles get better fuel economy, and people are opting to either take the bus, walk, or share rides due to the much higher cost of gasoline, the revenues are decreasing.

New revenue sources are needed to replace the old or you get worse service over time.

[Hypestyles]

It'll be interesting to see if it passes.

[mtburb]

And here's to hoping everyone in Wyandotte also votes in favor of service and therefore continuing to provide transportation for the car-free folks. Anyways, this is a brief overview of SMART service in Wyandotte throughout the past 20 years:

In 1994, you had route #110 to serve residents along the Biddle Avenue corridor, routes #125 and #130 to serve those closer to Fort Street and route #185 for those along Eureka Road and Biddle north of Eureka [[and I think there was a route along Ford Avenue/Northline Road back then as well, but don't remember what the number was). That year, DDOT briefly took control of routes #125 and #130 in a short lived route-swapping deal.

Fast forward a decade to 2004. By then, route #130 was no longer running and there was a new route along Eureka, Biddle and Ford-route #160. You also still had routes #110, #125 and #185, although #185 now stopped at Biddle and Eureka, although it still continued westward on Eureka on Saturdays, back when #160 was weekdays-only.

Now fast forward another decade and we land in 2014. Only three routes serve Wyandotte today: #125, #160 [[which now runs on Saturdays, terminating at Eureka and Biddle) and a new route, #140, which has replaced route #185. There is no longer a route #110 and on Sundays, the only bus service in the entire city is provided by #125 and even there, only the northbound lanes of Fort Street are actually in Wyandotte.

[rex]

will it get better if it passes or continue the same

[Hermod]

Freeways, we don't need no stinking freeways. Commuter rail will bring the folks from the burbs to downtown.
Attachment 23225

[That Great Guy]

will it get better if it passes or continue the same

It is most unfortunate that without a well funded campaign to defeat the August SMART property tax with a majority vote of NO, things will get worse.

Contact Mr. John Hertel, General Manager of SMART and ask him about the WebSite of save the fuel tax dot org

The future of public bus service in Detroit and inner suburbs is very grim without a protest in Lansing after the SMART tax is over. There is no excuse for the massive MDOT cuts for no reason but to please the trucking industry.

Scare Tactics and Bullying are used to get your YES vote.

Things will get worse if you vote YES but don't tell Danny

The vote is not a freedom of choice but Communism, where jobs are next to last place to putting safety first. The freeway projects are dangerous and do not include bus service but instead encourage overweight trucks and higher speeds.

[Hermod]

The vote is not a freedom of choice but Communism, where jobs are next to last place to putting safety first. The freeway projects are dangerous and do not include bus service but instead encourage overweight trucks and higher speeds.

And our wells will go dry, locusts will ravage the crops, dogs will be born with three legs, and Cthulu will rise from the deeps.

[That Great Guy]

And our wells will go dry, locusts will ravage the crops, dogs will be born with three legs, and Cthulu will rise from the deeps.

YES, our wells could actually go dry, if we don't vote to protect our rights.

The service SMART provides is a right protected by federal laws.

A vote of YES at this time is a forced tax increase by means of scare tactics and false propaganda to provide pay increases to those who are afraid of competition or filling up buses with fare box paying customers. Without formal well funded opposition to change this, nothing will happen except the property tax bills in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties will be just a little bit higher.

And you will have water, but will your grandchildren have water? Too bad Grandpa and Grandma were communists? because they voted YES to support taking away people's rights?

A vote of NO means NO cuts in essential service or funding and that is FACT.
I dare anyone including Mr. Hertel to prove this as not being TRUe.

[cramerro]

YES, our wells could actually go dry, if we don't vote to protect our rights.

The service SMART provides is a right protected by federal laws.

A vote of YES at this time is a forced tax increase by means of scare tactics and false propaganda to provide pay increases to those who are afraid of competition or filling up buses with fare box paying customers. Without formal well funded opposition to change this, nothing will happen except the property tax bills in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties will be just a little bit higher.

And you will have water, but will your grandchildren have water? Too bad Grandpa and Grandma were communists? because they voted YES to support taking away people's rights?

A vote of NO means NO cuts in essential service or funding and that is FACT.
I dare anyone including Mr. Hertel to prove this as not being TRUe.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you rely on SMART to get to/from work, yet are spending dozens of posts on this site trying to get people to vote no. The stand does NOT need to be taken on the backs of people who have no other means of transport. You approach, presented as a visionary battle of good versus evil, is incredibly short-sighted and misinformed, and will be carried on the backs of those who cannot afford a car, meaning they will lose their jobs as a result of the service stopping. This leads me to question your true motives and if you RELY on SMART or just chose to refer to your occasional use as a position of sympathy when gathering/coercing support for your "NO" vote on this site [[and I'm sure other forums). As I have done on other threads to counter your ramblings, I'll infuse some factual information. Your claim that SMART's service is Federally protected/required is incredibly misleading. Protections apply to a very small portion of those who ride smart, being those under the ADA. If you vote NO, some small amount of money from the State will likely keep flowing to SMART service area communities to aid in the provision of this very specific service. Federal law does not require anyone, be it the State, Feds, communities, counties, or McDonalds franchisees, to provide public transportation. It is NOT a right. 30,000-40,000 people ride SMART daily, and most of those will have no public transportation option if the "NO" votes prevail.

[Danny]

YES, our wells could actually go dry, if we don't vote to protect our rights.

The service SMART provides is a right protected by federal laws.

A vote of YES at this time is a forced tax increase by means of scare tactics and false propaganda to provide pay increases to those who are afraid of competition or filling up buses with fare box paying customers. Without formal well funded opposition to change this, nothing will happen except the property tax bills in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties will be just a little bit higher.

And you will have water, but will your grandchildren have water? Too bad Grandpa and Grandma were communists? because they voted YES to support taking away people's rights?

A vote of NO means NO cuts in essential service or funding and that is FACT.
I dare anyone including Mr. Hertel to prove this as not being TRUe.

Where is your proof that a no vote means no cuts? SMART bus system depends on local millage dollars, not just federal dollars. I'm voting yes to keep SMART busses on the road. TRU is not going to convince over 3 million Metro-Detroiters that regional transit millages means more freeways expansions. After several SMART millages passes, there was no evidence that propose freeway expansions on any local and highways in the Great State of Michigan. So cut out the anti-regional transit mess. Contradicting regional transit to freeway expansion without any proof is false.

[Hermod]

Never fear, the magic choo choo will come and fill all of your transit needs.


Attachment 23224

[DetroitPlanner]

Your constant blame of MDOT is stale. You might as well blame the City of Dearborn or Detroit for this as the impact to all transportation providers has been the same. There has been NO change in how funding has been distributed since the gas tax was increased from 15 cents to 19 cents almost 20 years ago. What has changed is inflation, the State's overall MPG [[up), amount of miles driven [[down), the amount of sprawl happening [[down). It was the poor MPG combined with hyper expansion of development and lack of options that kept the funding of transit fat and happy. It has been on a diet as of late, and like an anorexic something needs to change or it will die. Unlike an anorexic this change has been forced on the transit agencies, and for that matter Dearborn, Detroit, Livonia, and yes MDOT.

If you want funding to change, either vote for more of it locally or tell you State and Federal legislators to get more.

[rex]

Wait Great Guy. What are you talking about? Public transportation will get worse if people vote yes on a tax increase to fund SMART? I dont follow.
I thought if the tax doesn't pass the bus goes bust.

[Danny]

Wait Great Guy. What are you talking about? Public transportation will get worse if people vote yes on a tax increase to fund SMART? I dont follow.
I thought if the tax doesn't pass the bus goes bust.

That is totally true! Without extra millage dollars, SMART buses will run no more in our Tri-County Area. Thousands of jobs will be lost and thousands of disabled people who rely on SMART to get to the destination will be stuck in their areas. SMART bus system depends on small amount of federal dollars and lots of millage dollars from the Tri-County area. Great Guy [[ A.K.A.) Trainman from TRU wants no millage dollars to regional transit. It provided no concrete proof that Michigan's freeways or highways had been expanded after the last SMART bus millage pass. Therefore its evidence is false and I don't anyone of fall for Great Guy's tricks. Please vote yes for SMART bus millage on August 2014. If you don't you and everyone will be waiting a long time for a SMART bus to pick us up.

[scooter]

yes i sagree with you Danny, I been riding SMART fir 24 yrs now to work, I cant drive do to poor health if SMART buses stop, more people will be unemployed trying to get welfare etc.. cost all of us taxpayers more money to support them

[finster]

TGG, I admit I don't know all the ins and outs of SMART and its funding but if I didn't know any better I would swear you were somehow a paid shill for some anti-bus, anti-public transit, anti-SMART, etc. organization. I sure do hope I'm wrong and if so I appreciate your apparent commitment to your cause if nothing else.

[scooter]

aagree with you, TGG rather pay more taxes forthe people going to go on welfare and unemployment if the SMART millage fails. Whats a lousley extra 25 bucks
itsgoing to cost people more to support them on welfare etc... and besides Detroit will never become a world class city again without transit in the city and suburbs,

[ABetterDetroit]

First, I support public transportation and it must be funded. Raising the sales tax or fuel tax, or even an income tax that piggy backs fixing these god awful roads are the best ways to raise the needed funds because you can build a wide spread support on 2 fronts, roads AND public transport. Everyone needs one or the other.

Do not raise property taxes. Insanely high property taxes have contributed to and will continue to strangle Detroit's recovery. How many examples of over-taxed property do we need? Foreclosure rates due to unpaid taxes at all time highs and real estate values at all time lows alone seem good enough to point out the problem. The stupid two tiered property tax in this state already shifts the burden to the renters by forcing landlords to recover more rent to pay the taxes. Higher rents just make it that much harder for working people to make it on their own forcing more folks on the dole.

Raising property taxes to pay for SMART just causes more communities to opt out of public transportation all together because any intelligent community forced to chose between dropping real estate values related to high property taxes where nobody wants to move in or reasonable rents and house payments that make a community more attractive for actual economic growth is that much more critical than public transportation. In the end it is the public transportation that suffers with a lack of funding due to the tax vehicle that was decided on to fund it which has already proven to FAIL before in this area.

[DetroitPlanner]

Do not raise property taxes. Insanely high property taxes have contributed to and will continue to strangle Detroit's recovery. How many examples of over-taxed property do we need? Foreclosure rates due to unpaid taxes at all time highs and real estate values at all time lows alone seem good enough to point out the problem. The stupid two tiered property tax in this state already shifts the burden to the renters by forcing landlords to recover more rent to pay the taxes. Higher rents just make it that much harder for working people to make it on their own forcing more folks on the dole.

No property taxes in the City go to SMART. It is an opt out community.

[ABetterDetroit]

No property taxes in the City go to SMART. It is an opt out community.

I had no idea, thanks for the correction DP. I thought opt out was a dirty low down evil thing to do after following these threads for a long time and just assumed that Detroit was all in on bus services. Would it be fair to assume than that having 2 seprate bus systems serving the Detroit metro area is inefficient way of getting the job done and only cost more money with less service?