Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

**ABetterDetroit** · February-01-17, 12:57 PM

If the jail site is green lighted for a new soccer specific venue and based on the size of Detroits media market plus the wealth and experience of the owners in professional sports ownership the chances of winning this bid would be extremely high. Worry about what would happen to the property if the bid fails is not that necessary.

Soccer is not going to continue to be a marginalized sport in the future in this country, in twenty years it will be a major force with Detroit or without it. It's kind of like computers in the 1980s, feelings where strong on whether people liked them or hated them but all you had to do was look at the age groups of the for and against and you knew who was going to win and what the future of them was. If soccer was a stock I would go large and long. I believe that Gores and Gilbert are prepared to do exactly that.

info on all the bids:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/topic/expan...on-cities-bids

**EGrant** · February-01-17, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Soccer is not going to continue to be a marginalized sport in the future in this country, in twenty years it will be a major force with Detroit or without it. It's kind of like computers in the 1980s, feelings where strong on whether people liked them or hated them but all you had to do was look at the age groups of the for and against and you knew who was going to win and what the future of them was. If soccer was a stock I would go large and long. I believe that Gores and Gilbert are prepared to do exactly that.

Yep. I just read that participation in youth football is down 20% since 2009. The growth of FIFA video games and the expansive coverage of MLS and the best leagues overseas on basic cable has done a lot for the game here. Plus, the sport is no longer just some fringe, minor-league circus show that it used to be. Meanwhile, the NFL is getting fat and lazy, while the concussion issue keeps getting worse. It's still the king in America, but things are changing. So yeah, I'd bet on soccer too.

**hybridy** · February-02-17, 10:17 AM

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...r-New-Stadium/

It’s clear from recent interviews that one of the proposed relocation sites, the Mound Road Correctional Facility at Mound Road and Davison Street on the city’s east side, will not be considered due to a lack of nearby amenities and logistical challenges.

Other sites under consideration, DBusiness Daily News has learned, include the east side of I-75, north and south of Warren Avenue where the county and city of Detroit own land and numerous facilities; the former Michigan Central Station site at Michigan and 14th avenues; and two vacant office buildings on the west side of the Lodge Freeway, north of Howard Street.

Of the likely sites, the favored location is I-75 and Warren Avenue due to close proximity to three major freeways [[I-75, I-94, Lodge), the ability to combine the justice operations in one area, and nearby amenities for court personnel and visitors such as Eastern Market and the Midtown district. The area also makes the most financial sense

**EGrant** · February-02-17, 10:59 AM

Interesting. A jail/courthouse at the Michigan Central Station? I hate to see it empty, but a jail? Hmm.

**Junjie** · February-02-17, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Interesting. A jail/courthouse at the Michigan Central Station? I hate to see it empty, but a jail? Hmm.

Please, no. A giant prison as the defining feature of Corktown? Awful. The I-75/Warren location seems like a good replacement if it doesn't happen at the Gratiot site.

**Hypestyles** · February-08-17, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Interesting. A jail/courthouse at the Michigan Central Station? I hate to see it empty, but a jail? Hmm.

hopefully Tom Gores will buy the MCS and turn it into something useful.

If this proposal is accepted-- what other type of criminal justice apparatus would have to be nearby, that the proposal does not cover?

how is this going to affect public transit routes? There would need to be DDOT routes, and at least one SMART route.

**Junjie** · February-08-17, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

how is this going to affect public transit routes? There would need to be DDOT routes, and at least one SMART route.

Do you mean routes to the new jail site at Warren/Russell/Forest? It's pretty well-served by DDOT, at least judging be the schedules.

Direct service:
- 14 Crosstown [[Warren), scheduled every 20 minutes at rush and every 30 mins most of the rest of the day. 24-hour route.
- 40 Russell, weekday-only once an hour.

Walk from:
- 49 Vernor at St. Antoine, scheduled every 30 minutes most of the day. Weekday-only, though. About 2,000 feet away which is a 10 minute walk or less.
- 80 Villages Direct, every 25-30 minutes, weekday rush hours only. Same distance as Vernor from nearest stop.
- 53 Woodward, best-served route in the city with buses scheduled every 10 minutes through most of the day. 24-hour route. About 4,100 feet if walking along Canfield, so maybe a 20-25 minute walk.

As far as SMART, looks like there are various SMART buses that terminate on Canfield between DMC and VA, including some Van Dyke and Gratiot routes. That's about 3,500 feet / 20 minutes away. I'm not too familiar with their routes though.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-04-17, 11:27 AM

It is interesting to watch the other cities in on this bid and see how they do things in comparison to here.

Very Fast is the first major difference I notice.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/n...city-asks.html

**emu steve** · February-05-17, 03:43 AM

What I find most interesting is San Diego.

With the Chargers leaving, their stadium isn't needed.

The San Diego State FB team would play in the proposed soccer stadium. The stadium would be part of a big commercial development.

Sounds very interesting and creative way to do more than build a stadium:

"

Stadium plans: A privately-financed 30,000-seat facility on the Mission Valley site where Qualcomm Stadium sits, according to the MLS. The $200 million venue would replace Qualcomm Stadium, which would be shared with a college football team, with development of housing, retail, college facilities and a 55-acre river park also listed as part of the package, according to The San Diego Union-Tribune."

**EGrant** · February-05-17, 10:02 AM

San Diego is putting together a really strong bid.

**Jason** · February-05-17, 12:40 PM

The I-75 and Warren location is really stretching it about the amenities. It's surrounded by a bus maintenance facility, a federal reserve branch, some factories, some apartment buildings, and across the freeway a gas station and some churches.

It's far enough away that wherever you're going you'd have to drive, so driving a few more minutes from a farther site doesn't matter [[it's functionally the same as plonking it down on some random urban prairie). I'm also worried about accessibility for people without cars.

I think that the current site is a good place for the soccer stuff but it's also a good site for the jail stuff...

**Junjie** · February-05-17, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

The I-75 and Warren location is really stretching it about the amenities. It's surrounded by a bus maintenance facility, a federal reserve branch, some factories, some apartment buildings, and across the freeway a gas station and some churches.

It's far enough away that wherever you're going you'd have to drive, so driving a few more minutes from a farther site doesn't matter [[it's functionally the same as plonking it down on some random urban prairie). I'm also worried about accessibility for people without cars.

I think that the current site is a good place for the soccer stuff but it's also a good site for the jail stuff...

Warren/I-75 isn't as good as Gratiot in terms of amenities and transportation, but it's also far, far better than Mound and would free up the Gratiot site. Given the options we've heard about I think it's a great compromise choice.

In terms of amenities, Mound is near nothing. The Warren site is less than 3500 feet from both WSU/Midtown/DIA and Eastern Market. In most cities that's called "walking one subway stop," and it's about the same as walking from the Guardian building to the Gratiot site.

In terms of transportation, Gratiot is clearly the best but Warren is definitely better than Mound. Warren is on the 14 Crosstown which is a 24-hour line with good service levels [[20-30 minutes), plus it's walkable to Woodward which is of course the most frequent 24-hour line in the city. It's also on the 40 Russel line, which is a minimal "once an hour, only on weekdays" route. Mound is only the 10 Chene route, which is once an hour. It does at least have weekend service. You could also walk from McNichols which tends to run somewhat more frequently depending on time of day [[30-45 minutes). But it's over a mile to the nearest 24-hour line [[Van Dyke).

There's also hope that development could spread east of midtown / north of Eastern Market so that the jail site would be surrounded by more amenities over time. No such hope at Mound. I think it's an acceptable compromise to get the proposed soccer development if all sides can work it out.

**Jason** · February-06-17, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Junjie

Warren/I-75 isn't as good as Gratiot in terms of amenities and transportation, but it's also far, far better than Mound and would free up the Gratiot site. Given the options we've heard about I think it's a great compromise choice.

In terms of amenities, Mound is near nothing. The Warren site is less than 3500 feet from both WSU/Midtown/DIA and Eastern Market. In most cities that's called "walking one subway stop," and it's about the same as walking from the Guardian building to the Gratiot site.

In terms of transportation, Gratiot is clearly the best but Warren is definitely better than Mound. Warren is on the 14 Crosstown which is a 24-hour line with good service levels [[20-30 minutes), plus it's walkable to Woodward which is of course the most frequent 24-hour line in the city. It's also on the 40 Russel line, which is a minimal "once an hour, only on weekdays" route. Mound is only the 10 Chene route, which is once an hour. It does at least have weekend service. You could also walk from McNichols which tends to run somewhat more frequently depending on time of day [[30-45 minutes). But it's over a mile to the nearest 24-hour line [[Van Dyke).

There's also hope that development could spread east of midtown / north of Eastern Market so that the jail site would be surrounded by more amenities over time. No such hope at Mound. I think it's an acceptable compromise to get the proposed soccer development if all sides can work it out.

I'm very glad to hear that it's more accessible than I thought.

And I also agree that the site is much better than the Mound site, but I still don't think it's close enough to anything to really matter. You'd have to walk for a solid mile to get to an area with restaurants. Looking around, all of the other chunks of land [[not considering availability) would be better locations.

Or we could put BOTH the soccer arena and the justice complex in the same site and institute an efficient and entertaining trial by combat justice system.

**Junjie** · February-06-17, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

Or we could put BOTH the soccer arena and the justice complex in the same site and institute an efficient and entertaining trial by combat justice system.

Lol. I like that. Efficiency is always good.

I've come around to the arguments that the jail needs to be centrally located for a variety of reasons. I personally feel like the Warren site is "good enough," even if not ideal for some of the reasons you point out. Look forward to hearing some sort of decision on this soon.

**southen** · February-06-17, 08:40 AM

So they are already getting credit for the things you laid out even though the only things being built at this moment are the stadium and their new headquarters which they somehow snuck into ancillary requirement of the deal? Before they get credit for cleaning things up like Cass Park perhaps they should actually clean up Cass Park...

**emu steve** · February-06-17, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by southen

So they are already getting credit for the things you laid out even though the only things being built at this moment are the stadium and their new headquarters which they somehow snuck into ancillary requirement of the deal? Before they get credit for cleaning things up like Cass Park perhaps they should actually clean up Cass Park...

How many years is a president's first term? One hundred days or four years?

Isn't this Ilitch project only what 1 1/2 years old? Will it take 4 or 8 years to become say 90% complete? [[at least what the Ilitches will do themselves as a business entity).

Quite frankly, I think Ilitch enterprises has accomplished a LOT for only 18 months since the first shovel was turned at LCA.

E.g., LCA, parking garages at LCA, parking garage at Comerica, LCA headquarters, Ilitch school of business, etc.

I've long maintained that development would start around LCA and the Fox/Comerica and then spread out. Eddystone, Cass Park, etc are probably 2018 projects. [[development is still east of Clifford).

Rome wasn't built...

**southen** · February-06-17, 01:18 PM

Do people often celebrate an entire Presidency during the first 100 days? You tout things that they have yet to accomplish. That is the point.

Rome wasn't built in a day that is true, but do you want to look at their track record from when they were able to get public financing for the arena or would you like to look at their record over the last three decades? Over the last 18 months they have done quite a bit, tack on 30 years to that and it looks less impressive, no?

**Zads07** · February-06-17, 06:26 PM

This certainly is a big step in that direction.

Gilbert offers to build the courthouse and jails at the Forest Ave. site and receives the Gratiot site from Wayne County.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...site/97570484/

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · February-08-17, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Zads07

This certainly is a big step in that direction.

Gilbert offers to build the courthouse and jails at the Forest Ave. site and receives the Gratiot site from Wayne County.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...site/97570484/

....plus he receives $300,000,000 plus "a credit to be paid to the company for the savings a new consolidated criminal justice complex would provide." Which sounds like the savings will accrue to Gilbert and not the county. This is hardly an altruistic deal on Gilbert's part. He is "offering to build the courthouse and jails" with a hefty price tag.

**emu steve** · February-06-17, 07:41 PM

I, and I guess others, said Gilbert would move heaven and earth for that 'fail jail' site.

Certainly sounds like he is...

Win - win. No losers?

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · February-06-17, 08:12 PM

I would have thought Mound Road was an overall better option, but this proposal seems to check Warren Evans' justifiable requirements. I like it. Hope the county seizes on these 2 golden gifts being offered by Gilbert: it gets them out of that morass known as Fail Jail & it gets them a new criminal justice center with a cap on the county's contribution. Gilbert will cover any overruns [[which, since it won't be a government construction job, probably won't occur). When the soccer stadium opens, Ficano can get shot out of a cannon.

**Junjie** · February-06-17, 08:39 PM

Nice. All sounds good. Go for it. I just hope MLS actually awards them the franchise[[!)

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · February-06-17, 11:40 PM

Junjie, I think Detroit is the market they most want to expand into. Based on demographics, population, potential business partners/sponsors for MLS, Detroit's history as a big sports town, local affinity and participation in soccer, and last but not least, a fantastic ownership group [[Gilbert & Gores) with the commitment, money & sports-owning experience. Nothing in life is done until it is done, but we're in a good position to get a team.

**emu steve** · February-07-17, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Junjie, I think Detroit is the market they most want to expand into. Based on demographics, population, potential business partners/sponsors for MLS, Detroit's history as a big sports town, local affinity and participation in soccer, and last but not least, a fantastic ownership group [[Gilbert & Gores) with the commitment, money & sports-owning experience. Nothing in life is done until it is done, but we're in a good position to get a team.

Agree 100%.

MLS almost signaled that it was a slam dunk [[oops, wrong sport) if G&G get the land to build the stadium they promise.

BTW, what's the timeline? Will it take a year to untangle the fail jail project and turn the land over to G&G and then another 24 months to build the stadium? How does construction of the stadium coincide with construction of the other buildings part of the massive project?

**Junjie** · February-07-17, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Junjie, I think Detroit is the market they most want to expand into. Based on demographics, population, potential business partners/sponsors for MLS, Detroit's history as a big sports town, local affinity and participation in soccer, and last but not least, a fantastic ownership group [[Gilbert & Gores) with the commitment, money & sports-owning experience. Nothing in life is done until it is done, but we're in a good position to get a team.

I agree they have a strong bid. Just nervous because most lists I've seen put Detroit in the top half of the cities bidding, but not necessarily the top 4 that will be awarded a franchise. St. Louis seems to be a lock if they can get their stadium situation together, but then we're no better off on that count. And Sacramento, one of the North Carolina bids [[Charlotte or Raleigh), and Tampa Bay all look very likely as well. I'd hate for this all to go through and then not actually get the team.

Anyway, I'm a general sports fan and not at all an MLS expert, so take it for what it's worth. But that's what I've been reading.