Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[gumby]

My assumption is then is if Wayne County says no, the MLS bid is dead.

Yeah, I am sure they will be unable to find any other vacant land in the city if the county says no.

[Atticus]

The article referenced in the post stated that the jail site was the only location submitted in the MLS bid. Sure, they could find other vacant land for a stadium, but a second stadium site wasn't part of the bid.

No stadium site = Not winning a bid, especially when competing with other cities having all their MLS bid boxes checked.

[ABetterDetroit]

Gores and Gilbert are not going to put a MLS facility anywhere outside of the downtown area having just learned a very expensive lesson about the critical importance of location with the Palace in the currant market. That leaves less than a handful of options because of the footprint. Wayne County has a big decision coming, do they make a bet on the future or stick with the past?

[emu steve]

Gores and Gilbert are not going to put a MLS facility anywhere outside of the downtown area having just learned a very expensive lesson about the critical importance of location with the Palace in the currant market. That leaves less than a handful of options because of the footprint. Wayne County has a big decision coming, do they make a bet on the future or stick with the past?

Agree 100%.

I'm sure they feel putting a stadium away from the other stadiums/arena would not be a wise thing.

I still believe some of the vacant land near the Temple could be a fall back option, if they [[Gilbert/Gores) are amenable.

It is near enough to LCA to share parking, amenities, etc. BUT it would be my 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice. Not #1.

[clubboss]

A little MLS info:

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-so...ga-mxs-tijuana

While the devil is in the details, personally I think Detroit has a solid offer with its brand new stadium. Not sure of the money [[tributes) offered, but a shiny new stadium certainly looks more attractive than San Diego's 50 year old Qualcomm.

[EGrant]

^San Diego's bid includes a new, 30K seat stadium.

I think with the mess that became the Sacramento bid, Detroit is in good shape to get a team.

I can see us, St. Louis, San Diego and Cinci. But I'm an optimist, so who knows.

[ABetterDetroit]

If the jail site is green lighted for a new soccer specific venue and based on the size of Detroits media market plus the wealth and experience of the owners in professional sports ownership the chances of winning this bid would be extremely high. Worry about what would happen to the property if the bid fails is not that necessary.

Soccer is not going to continue to be a marginalized sport in the future in this country, in twenty years it will be a major force with Detroit or without it. It's kind of like computers in the 1980s, feelings where strong on whether people liked them or hated them but all you had to do was look at the age groups of the for and against and you knew who was going to win and what the future of them was. If soccer was a stock I would go large and long. I believe that Gores and Gilbert are prepared to do exactly that.

info on all the bids:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/topic/expan...on-cities-bids

[401don]

The article referenced in the post stated that the jail site was the only location submitted in the MLS bid. Sure, they could find other vacant land for a stadium, but a second stadium site wasn't part of the bid.

No stadium site = Not winning a bid, especially when competing with other cities having all their MLS bid boxes checked.

You don't think they tell MLS that they are submitting the Jail Site as their only site to put pressure on the County but don't worry here's our Plans B & C?

[EGrant]

Soccer is not going to continue to be a marginalized sport in the future in this country, in twenty years it will be a major force with Detroit or without it. It's kind of like computers in the 1980s, feelings where strong on whether people liked them or hated them but all you had to do was look at the age groups of the for and against and you knew who was going to win and what the future of them was. If soccer was a stock I would go large and long. I believe that Gores and Gilbert are prepared to do exactly that.

Yep. I just read that participation in youth football is down 20% since 2009. The growth of FIFA video games and the expansive coverage of MLS and the best leagues overseas on basic cable has done a lot for the game here. Plus, the sport is no longer just some fringe, minor-league circus show that it used to be. Meanwhile, the NFL is getting fat and lazy, while the concussion issue keeps getting worse. It's still the king in America, but things are changing. So yeah, I'd bet on soccer too.

[hybridy]

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...r-New-Stadium/

It’s clear from recent interviews that one of the proposed relocation sites, the Mound Road Correctional Facility at Mound Road and Davison Street on the city’s east side, will not be considered due to a lack of nearby amenities and logistical challenges.

Other sites under consideration, DBusiness Daily News has learned, include the east side of I-75, north and south of Warren Avenue where the county and city of Detroit own land and numerous facilities; the former Michigan Central Station site at Michigan and 14th avenues; and two vacant office buildings on the west side of the Lodge Freeway, north of Howard Street.

Of the likely sites, the favored location is I-75 and Warren Avenue due to close proximity to three major freeways [[I-75, I-94, Lodge), the ability to combine the justice operations in one area, and nearby amenities for court personnel and visitors such as Eastern Market and the Midtown district. The area also makes the most financial sense

[EGrant]

Interesting. A jail/courthouse at the Michigan Central Station? I hate to see it empty, but a jail? Hmm.

[Junjie]

Interesting. A jail/courthouse at the Michigan Central Station? I hate to see it empty, but a jail? Hmm.

Please, no. A giant prison as the defining feature of Corktown? Awful. The I-75/Warren location seems like a good replacement if it doesn't happen at the Gratiot site.

[ABetterDetroit]

It is interesting to watch the other cities in on this bid and see how they do things in comparison to here.

Very Fast is the first major difference I notice.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/n...city-asks.html

[emu steve]

What I find most interesting is San Diego.

With the Chargers leaving, their stadium isn't needed.

The San Diego State FB team would play in the proposed soccer stadium. The stadium would be part of a big commercial development.

Sounds very interesting and creative way to do more than build a stadium:

"

• Stadium plans: A privately-financed 30,000-seat facility on the Mission Valley site where Qualcomm Stadium sits, according to the MLS. The $200 million venue would replace Qualcomm Stadium, which would be shared with a college football team, with development of housing, retail, college facilities and a 55-acre river park also listed as part of the package, according to The San Diego Union-Tribune."

[EGrant]

San Diego is putting together a really strong bid.

[Jason]

The I-75 and Warren location is really stretching it about the amenities. It's surrounded by a bus maintenance facility, a federal reserve branch, some factories, some apartment buildings, and across the freeway a gas station and some churches.

It's far enough away that wherever you're going you'd have to drive, so driving a few more minutes from a farther site doesn't matter [[it's functionally the same as plonking it down on some random urban prairie). I'm also worried about accessibility for people without cars.

I think that the current site is a good place for the soccer stuff but it's also a good site for the jail stuff...

[Junjie]

The I-75 and Warren location is really stretching it about the amenities. It's surrounded by a bus maintenance facility, a federal reserve branch, some factories, some apartment buildings, and across the freeway a gas station and some churches.

It's far enough away that wherever you're going you'd have to drive, so driving a few more minutes from a farther site doesn't matter [[it's functionally the same as plonking it down on some random urban prairie). I'm also worried about accessibility for people without cars.

I think that the current site is a good place for the soccer stuff but it's also a good site for the jail stuff...

Warren/I-75 isn't as good as Gratiot in terms of amenities and transportation, but it's also far, far better than Mound and would free up the Gratiot site. Given the options we've heard about I think it's a great compromise choice.

In terms of amenities, Mound is near nothing. The Warren site is less than 3500 feet from both WSU/Midtown/DIA and Eastern Market. In most cities that's called "walking one subway stop," and it's about the same as walking from the Guardian building to the Gratiot site.

In terms of transportation, Gratiot is clearly the best but Warren is definitely better than Mound. Warren is on the 14 Crosstown which is a 24-hour line with good service levels [[20-30 minutes), plus it's walkable to Woodward which is of course the most frequent 24-hour line in the city. It's also on the 40 Russel line, which is a minimal "once an hour, only on weekdays" route. Mound is only the 10 Chene route, which is once an hour. It does at least have weekend service. You could also walk from McNichols which tends to run somewhat more frequently depending on time of day [[30-45 minutes). But it's over a mile to the nearest 24-hour line [[Van Dyke).

There's also hope that development could spread east of midtown / north of Eastern Market so that the jail site would be surrounded by more amenities over time. No such hope at Mound. I think it's an acceptable compromise to get the proposed soccer development if all sides can work it out.

[emu steve]

I'm not so sure about that. First, if one is considering investing money in something, one doesn't usually announce it. It drives prices of anything up. Second, even if he has no interest in soccer, he might be interested if it seemed like a sound investment or way to draw people into downtown, boosting revenue and value of his other properties and businesses. I am not saying he is in any way interested. Just that a public denial is potentially not sincere.

Secondly, I doubt the Ilitches would sell the Tigers but not the Wings. I would think that they would either be all in or all out in terms of sports. But who knows. Generational changes and large checks can be big drivers of change.

One thing about the Ilitches...

If they were to sell the Wings why spend all the time, effort and money on LCA and what it entails? Just to prop up the value of the Wings???

So if they'd sell the Wings, their 'empire' would be Tigers, the Fox, and Little Caesars [[plus the casino).

Sounds like a far cry from their 50 block plan.

A 50-block strategy sounds like an integrated plan to have a mini-city with sports, entertainment, lodging, housing, headquarter building, etc. etc.

If the Ilitches were to sell the Tigers and Wings, why would Chris care about the 50 block development? It would be a shell of itself.

[archfan]

...
If the Ilitches were to sell the Tigers and Wings, why would Chris care about the 50 block development? It would be a shell of itself.

I bet your cousin Chris cared about the 50 block plan only to the extent that it got his stadium paid for.

[emu steve]

Truth be told... With the Tigers, Fox, Hockeytown, Wings, and casino, it is hard to say that a 50 block development was primarily to get LCA paid for.

It is all synergistic. LCA makes the area around the Fox and Hockeytown, for example, much more pleasant.

Building residences, cleaning up Cass Park, renovations along Temple make the area adjacent east of their casino much nicer.

All of the building near LCA may help the Ilitches in time sell off their land behind the Fox as it may become more commercially desirable.

This is kind of a 'risng tide raises all boats' type endeavor. LCA and other construction activities benefit most of the 50 block area.

[southen]

So they are already getting credit for the things you laid out even though the only things being built at this moment are the stadium and their new headquarters which they somehow snuck into ancillary requirement of the deal? Before they get credit for cleaning things up like Cass Park perhaps they should actually clean up Cass Park...

[emu steve]

So they are already getting credit for the things you laid out even though the only things being built at this moment are the stadium and their new headquarters which they somehow snuck into ancillary requirement of the deal? Before they get credit for cleaning things up like Cass Park perhaps they should actually clean up Cass Park...

How many years is a president's first term? One hundred days or four years?

Isn't this Ilitch project only what 1 1/2 years old? Will it take 4 or 8 years to become say 90% complete? [[at least what the Ilitches will do themselves as a business entity).

Quite frankly, I think Ilitch enterprises has accomplished a LOT for only 18 months since the first shovel was turned at LCA.

E.g., LCA, parking garages at LCA, parking garage at Comerica, LCA headquarters, Ilitch school of business, etc.

I've long maintained that development would start around LCA and the Fox/Comerica and then spread out. Eddystone, Cass Park, etc are probably 2018 projects. [[development is still east of Clifford).

Rome wasn't built...

[southen]

Do people often celebrate an entire Presidency during the first 100 days? You tout things that they have yet to accomplish. That is the point.

Rome wasn't built in a day that is true, but do you want to look at their track record from when they were able to get public financing for the arena or would you like to look at their record over the last three decades? Over the last 18 months they have done quite a bit, tack on 30 years to that and it looks less impressive, no?

[Jason]

Warren/I-75 isn't as good as Gratiot in terms of amenities and transportation, but it's also far, far better than Mound and would free up the Gratiot site. Given the options we've heard about I think it's a great compromise choice.

In terms of amenities, Mound is near nothing. The Warren site is less than 3500 feet from both WSU/Midtown/DIA and Eastern Market. In most cities that's called "walking one subway stop," and it's about the same as walking from the Guardian building to the Gratiot site.

In terms of transportation, Gratiot is clearly the best but Warren is definitely better than Mound. Warren is on the 14 Crosstown which is a 24-hour line with good service levels [[20-30 minutes), plus it's walkable to Woodward which is of course the most frequent 24-hour line in the city. It's also on the 40 Russel line, which is a minimal "once an hour, only on weekdays" route. Mound is only the 10 Chene route, which is once an hour. It does at least have weekend service. You could also walk from McNichols which tends to run somewhat more frequently depending on time of day [[30-45 minutes). But it's over a mile to the nearest 24-hour line [[Van Dyke).

There's also hope that development could spread east of midtown / north of Eastern Market so that the jail site would be surrounded by more amenities over time. No such hope at Mound. I think it's an acceptable compromise to get the proposed soccer development if all sides can work it out.

I'm very glad to hear that it's more accessible than I thought.

And I also agree that the site is much better than the Mound site, but I still don't think it's close enough to anything to really matter. You'd have to walk for a solid mile to get to an area with restaurants. Looking around, all of the other chunks of land [[not considering availability) would be better locations.


Or we could put BOTH the soccer arena and the justice complex in the same site and institute an efficient and entertaining trial by combat justice system.

[Junjie]

Or we could put BOTH the soccer arena and the justice complex in the same site and institute an efficient and entertaining trial by combat justice system.

Lol. I like that. Efficiency is always good.

I've come around to the arguments that the jail needs to be centrally located for a variety of reasons. I personally feel like the Warren site is "good enough," even if not ideal for some of the reasons you point out. Look forward to hearing some sort of decision on this soon.