Shinola not so Shiny after all?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Well, obviously not. You're ignoring the actual complaint.

No I'm not. It's just a way of saying I think the original complaint is baseless.

[CleveBill]

I'm glad to see someone besides me is seeing past the smoke and mirrors of the company named Shinola. On their overpriced wallets and watches I won't hazard an opinion, but as a cyclist, I was rather interested in the bicycles. When I visited the shop, I spoke with the guy behind the bike counter -- "So I realize you probably don't make the components [[derailleurs, brakes, etc.), but you make the frames here" -- "Well, no we buy them from X...." -- "Well, with your watch-and-wallet leather business, certainly you make the saddles" -- "No, we buy those from Y......" -- "So what DO you make yourselves?" Turns out, nothing -- all pre-manufactured parts simply assembled on site; no more than any decent mom-and-pop bike shop does, but at ten times the cost.

FYI, I know there is at lest one, and possibly more, genuine bike frame manufacturer working in Detroit.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I'm glad to see someone besides me is seeing past the smoke and mirrors of the company named Shinola. On their overpriced wallets and watches I won't hazard an opinion, but as a cyclist, I was rather interested in the bicycles. When I visited the shop, I spoke with the guy behind the bike counter -- "So I realize you probably don't make the components [[derailleurs, brakes, etc.), but you make the frames here" -- "Well, no we buy them from X...." -- "Well, with your watch-and-wallet leather business, certainly you make the saddles" -- "No, we buy those from Y......" -- "So what DO you make yourselves?" Turns out, nothing -- all pre-manufactured parts simply assembled on site; no more than any decent mom-and-pop bike shop does, but at ten times the cost.

FYI, I know there is at lest one, and possibly more, genuine bike frame manufacturer working in Detroit.

But do they manufacture the frame of Detroit-made metal? Or do they just bend and play with metal from - OMG - some place else? If so, they don't "manufacture" the frame in Detroit, do they?

[noise]

But do they manufacture the frame of Detroit-made metal? Or do they just bend and play with metal from - OMG - some place else? If so, they don't "manufacture" the frame in Detroit, do they?

Sure, they do manufacture. They do much more than assemble.

[noise]

No I'm not. It's just a way of saying I think the original complaint is baseless.

It's great you have an opinion.

Do you dislike the marketing tactics of any company? Big fan of the super sleazy American Apparel?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Some local perspective. As opposed to that guy in New York claiming to be a Detroiter.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014040...-fahle-made-in

[noise]

I'm still surprised that disapproving of a company's gross marketing strategies is "baseless".

[noise]

If I buy a Waterford frame from Wisconsin and a bunch of Shimano components from Nashbar.com, but assemble it in Detroit, can I say I have a "MADE IN DETROIT" bike?

I mean, at least I'm from the Detroit area...unlike Fossil.

[Dbest]

Is a Detroit bakery's loaf of bread not "local" if they dont mill their own flour and use King Author brand instead?

Is a custom made dress shirt not "local" if the fabric or thread weren't produced here?

Not all businesses are able produce everything from "scratch", stories like Vernors are stuff of legend.

[Honky Tonk]

Is a Detroit bakery's loaf of bread not "local" if they dont mill their own flour and use King Author brand instead?

Is a custom made dress shirt not "local" if the fabric or thread weren't produced here?

Not all businesses are able produce everything from "scratch", stories like Vernors are stuff of legend.

Not all businesses plaster "Made In Detroit" all over their product or advertising.

[Bill Simpson]

I like how the bikes are all black, like the first Ford cars. I'll probably get one now that the weather is getting warmer.

[archfan]

Shinola's assembly model does harken back to the early days of the auto industry. For the first twenty years, the big auto brands bought and assembled most of their components from other companies. They started consolidating in the 20's, with GM buying Fisher and other suppliers, and Henry Ford trying to do everything from steel making to planting rubber trees.

[noise]

actually, if you check Websters, it lists assembly as a synonym for manufacture. And by your definition, cars are not manufactured. Cars parts are simply assembled. Jeeps are not made at Jefferson North; they are only assembled there. Its nice that one firm makes bike frames in the city if they do [[too bad they don't "manufacture" a whole bike though). Its also nice that another firm assembles bikes with a skilled workforce.

I think that its great that someone is marketing the Detroit workforce as the reason that a product is well made.

Unfortunately, your misunderstandings and emotions are clouding your judgment on this.

There is a definitional difference and automakers do more than assemble. This is just a matter of fact.

[noise]

I think that its great that someone is marketing the Detroit workforce as the reason that a product is well made.

This is telling, however.

You think a marketing lie is great. I certainly do not.

[noise]

Is a Detroit bakery's loaf of bread not "local" if they dont mill their own flour and use King Author brand instead?

Is a custom made dress shirt not "local" if the fabric or thread weren't produced here?

Not all businesses are able produce everything from "scratch", stories like Vernors are stuff of legend.

Read the thread. This is not the issue and it's been explained multiple times.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Read the thread. This is not the issue and it's been explained multiple times.

Actually, many posters on this thread have made the point numerous times that the watches or bikes are being "assembled" and not "manufactured" in Detroit, so its a major part of the thread to others, even if it may not be to you.

The other part of the thread seems to be that its inappropriate to highlight the skill of the Detroit workers in a "marketing" campaign. I tend to think that anything that portrays Detroit in a good light, and makes people think that perhaps its a good place to do business is not a bad thing. I guess ruin porn is more to their liking. Certain posters even seem to think that training workers to do a new type of skilled assembly is a bad thing. I guess bringing a new type of enterprise to the area is not seen as desirable for some reason.

[bailey]

I guess ruin porn is more to their liking. Certain posters even seem to think that training workers to do a new type of skilled assembly is a bad thing. I guess bringing a new type of enterprise to the area is not seen as desirable for some reason.

Their entire marketing campaign makes GENEROUS use of ruin porn. Doing so, was the entire reason behind the offense taken in the article that set this thread off.

This idea that people would be surprised by how human and artistic and talented Detroit's citizens are if they just came and visited is ludicrous and emblematic of a new type of gentrification, one that seems even more insidious than what has occurred in, say, Brooklyn. Shinola and other entrepreneurs market themselves as white knights, swooping in to save the noble savages. They help assuage the guilt associated with gentrification and consumerism by pointing out how strong and proud and culturally important the natives truly are—that simply by choosing to be in Detroit, Shinola is somehow better than other companies selling similar products. Shinola is using my city as its shill, pushing a manufactured, outdated and unrealistic ideal of America

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Their entire marketing campaign makes GENEROUS use of ruin porn. Doing so, was the entire reason behind the offense taken in the article that set this thread off.

I'd like an example of how the marketing campaign uses GENEROUS use of ruin porn. I think that exists mostly in your head.

Their website actually lists where all components are from.

http://www.shinola.com/customer-serv...resources/faqs


"Our hope is that we can cultivate a cottage industry of suppliers who will move their operations to Detroit in order to supply us with needed components."


Perhaps you should start a cottage industry to supply them. I hear Detroit needs some more "scrappy" start-ups after all.

Also from the website:
"Why not accept that manufacturing is gone from this country? Why not let the rust and weeds finish what they started? Why not just embrace the era of disposability? And why didn't we buy a warmer coat before we moved here?
Through three Detroit winters, we’ve asked ourselves these questions. And worked not to find our answer, but to build it."

Gee, I guess they are trying to look like they've lived here forever....

[bailey]

I'd like an example of how the marketing campaign uses GENEROUS use of ruin porn. I think that exists mostly in your head.

I was talking about the orginal article's author's opinion.

Their website actually lists where all components are from.

yes I know.

"Our hope is that we can cultivate a cottage industry of suppliers who will move their operations to Detroit in order to supply us with needed components."

Perhaps you should start a cottage industry to supply them. I hear Detroit needs some more "scrappy" start-ups after all.

I'm perfectly happy working for a large, evil, multinational corporation. Also, maybe instead of dropping 15 million on a TriBeCa NYC flagship store, they could assist/entice a few to move/set up here?

"Why not accept that manufacturing is gone from this country? Why not let the rust and weeds finish what they started? Why not just embrace the era of disposability?

Ok, look, THIS is the point. If that's the mission statement, then why not actually make the watch movement here then? The "hard" part about the watch is the movement. the guts. its the stuff that separates a fossil[[who uses the same firm for their innards as Shinola does) from a Rolex. It's the "manufacturing" that we don't do here anymore that they claim they are doing. They are a texas firm assembling stuff here after the parts were manufactured elsewhere.

You say that is a distinction without a difference... fine. I think that is a bit like saying Toyota is an American company because it has plants here and uses domestic suppliers.

For the 5th? 6th? fucking time though.... I don't care that they assemble the stuff here. I'm happy they are here. However, I'm also saying there is no reason they are here other than they liked the marketing aspect of it. Which again... is just fine. I'm just kind of put off by falseness of it.

In 60 years or so, a grandfather will finally be able to pass down an American wristwatch.

I mean, is it american watch when the movement is swiss and the dials, hands, crystal and case are chinese? Again, as I said before, maybe "made in ____" is never true in the age of globalism, but if you're going to slap it on every piece of your marketing material and claim it as a company ethos...maybe it should be?

[noise]

Actually, many posters on this thread have made the point numerous times that the watches or bikes are being "assembled" and not "manufactured" in Detroit, so its a major part of the thread to others, even if it may not be to you.

The other part of the thread seems to be that its inappropriate to highlight the skill of the Detroit workers in a "marketing" campaign. I tend to think that anything that portrays Detroit in a good light, and makes people think that perhaps its a good place to do business is not a bad thing. I guess ruin porn is more to their liking. Certain posters even seem to think that training workers to do a new type of skilled assembly is a bad thing. I guess bringing a new type of enterprise to the area is not seen as desirable for some reason.

I think context is lost on you, which makes any sort of reasonable dialogue a lost cause. This is entirely related to their phony marketing. Nobody has claimed they are a bad thing outside of the context of their marketing. Quit being disingenuous.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I think context is lost on you, which makes any sort of reasonable dialogue a lost cause. This is entirely related to their phony marketing. Nobody has claimed they are a bad thing outside of the context of their marketing. Quit being disingenuous.

Their marketing is not phony. They are using a skilled Detroit workforce to make a quality product. They make the point that skilled workers make a good product, and that Detroit at least used to be known for such a workforce, and is therefore a good location to start a business that makes things. They make the point that there is no history of watchmaking in Detroit, but they might be starting one. They note on their website that they have been in Detroit for all of 3 years. They note on their website that assembly is 100% in Detroit, but that the parts are made elsewhere [[although at one is listed as Michigan made) and that they try to source as many parts domestically as possible. They also say they'd like to develop local suppliers. They were very upfront that the big clocks were not made in Michigan as nobody does that, but that they used the only domestic firm that makes them. And now these interlopers are partnering with Midtown Detroit on a new green alley project! The nerve of them.

Sometimes Detroiters remind me of folks in some insular little town in the boondocks where everyone knows everyone, and anyone else is an outsider even after being there for 5 or 10 years.

If a new tech firm locates to Silicon Valley and says they did so because its the tech center of the world, and markets itself as being in Silicon Valley, nobody says its disingenuous. Nobody hoots or hollers that they have ties to some other city or state. But maybe that's one of the differences between an area like Detroit, where people have forgotten what its like to live somewhere that people want to move to and become a part of and claim as their own, and a place like California where that is the norm.

[noise]

Renovating work space, employing workers, opening a store in the city, makes a business unconnected to Detroit? Why?

What makes a business "connected" to Detroit? If the owners grandpa came up from Kentucky in 1922 to work in an assembly plant?

It's simply co-opting an image to sell goods. There's not a genuine connection. They're a Texas company who purchased a New York name and set up one of their many locations in Detroit.

[noise]

As bailey, myself, and many others have said...we're glad the company is doing business in Detroit. We'd just prefer they didn't market themselves dishonestly.

[noise]

Yeah, I know, you buy into it. We all know it. You don't have to keep repeating yourself and missing the argument entirely.

Not everyone is as easily taken and can see nuance. Some people are discerning. You'll have to accept that.

[Spartan]

Yeah, I know, you buy into it. We all know it. You don't have to keep repeating yourself and missing the argument entirely.

Not everyone is as easily taken and can see nuance. Some people are discerning. You'll have to accept that.

Could easily say the same in the other direction. Some of us are ok with it, some aren't. Doesn't seem like either side is very interested in being convinced otherwise.