City Club Apartments. Taking place of Stalter Hotel

[emu steve]

Here is a very good article from the Washington Post about all of the high rises and where will the millenials go after they 'outgrow' this type of housing.

Wish cities would building more townhomes, etc. Townhomes have more density then suburban sub-division houses sitting on a lot of empty land.

Townhomes are very appropriate for families with children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.cecc34a138ca

[Nero]

Here is a very good article from the Washington Post about all of the high rises and where will the millenials go after they 'outgrow' this type of housing.

Wish cities would building more townhomes, etc. Townhomes have more density then suburban sub-division houses sitting on a lot of empty land.

Townhomes are very appropriate for families with children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.cecc34a138ca

This article becomes miss-correct when it begins to speak on cause and effect.

The young will not inhabit the inner suburbs as the desirable housing. Instead, the young will make desirable the city centers and urban prairies. For it is the prairies where the cheap land lies. It is the decaying carcasses of days gone by where they are most likely to build the institutions to replace those which face collapse, contraction, and no hope for a direct recovery or revival.

You may agree or disagree, but this is how Nero interprets what has happened in other collapsed cities for millennia. It may now happen in Detroit.

[ABetterDetroit]

This article becomes miss-correct when it begins to speak on cause and effect.

The young will not inhabit the inner suburbs as the desirable housing. Instead, the young will make desirable the city centers and urban prairies. For it is the prairies where there cheap land lies. It is the decaying carcasses of days gone by where they are most likely to build the institutions to replace those which face collapse, contraction, and no hope for a direct recovery or revival.

You may agree or disagree, but this is how Nero interprets what has happened in other collapsed cities for millennia. It may now happen in Detroit.

Nero is ignoring the elephant that has been standing in Metro Detroit’s room for decades strangling middle class new housing construction.

Yes, the concept of building lower priced new homes on “cheap land” makes sense in theory, but in practice around here it doesn’t exist much at all.

The new free market construction goes where the property tax rate is 30 mills, not where it is 70 mills. There is nothing middle class about dropping $800-$1200 a month on property taxes.

When confronted with the above problem, developers pass on the cheap land with sky high taxes and develop on the outer ring where they correctly have determined that all of the customers would rather have an extra $150k worth of new house out of the payment that they are qualified for to a fixed amount instead of paying a 133% higher property tax rate out of that payment.

[cmubryan]

Wow, another vacant lot gets filled in with residential development, we should all be happy! So it’s not a 30 story high rise like it’s adjacent sister property [[Detroit City Club). It’s similar in height to it’s across the street neighbor Claridge House Apartments. There are enough other vacant lots [[starting with the Tuller site next door) to accommodate other developers’ projects. How many surface parking lots exist downtown which one day can support the building of your choice!?

Bottom line: A prime downtown lot which hasn’t held an occupied structure since 1975 is getting developed into high end luxury rentals! Very cool! Done

[Bham1982]

Bottom line: A prime downtown lot which hasn’t held an occupied structure since 1975 is getting developed into high end luxury rentals! Very cool! Done

The Statler stood until like a decade ago. It's proposed replacement [[if it's ever built; like everything downtown it's "certain to break ground very soon") is suburban-style schlock, so serious downgrade.

Yeah, it's much better than a vacant lot, but it looks like something they would put up in Ferndale or Royal Oak, not in the very core of one of the largest U.S. cities.

[Nero]

Nero is ignoring the elephant that has been standing in Metro Detroit’s room for decades strangling middle class new housing construction.

Yes, the concept of building lower priced new homes on “cheap land” makes sense in theory, but in practice around here it doesn’t exist much at all.

The new free market construction goes where the property tax rate is 30 mills, not where it is 70 mills. There is nothing middle class about dropping $800-$1200 a month on property taxes.

When confronted with the above problem, developers pass on the cheap land with sky high taxes and develop on the outer ring where they correctly have determined that all of the customers would rather have an extra $150k worth of new house out of the payment that they are qualified for to a fixed amount instead of paying a 133% higher property tax rate out of that payment.

The wave of global contraction has only just begun. Mark that as the word of Nero.

[swingline]

Yup. Highrises have almost nothing to do with urbanity.

Best urban environments on earth are probably Paris, Barcelona and Manhattan, IMO. And the best neighborhoods in these respective environments have few highrises. Even in Manhattan, the best areas are between Midtown and Lower Manhattan, an area that is full of midrises, but has relatively few towers.

In American cities, especially, modern highrises tend to be bad for walkability and street-level urban feel, because they tend to be monolithic full-block sites with giant parking garages at the base. Visit, say, River North in Chicago, and you see how the American auto-obsession has led to poor urban environments. You have newer towers everywhere but the street-level environment sucks. Places like Dallas, Miami and Atlanta are far worse, even.

Outside of NYC, and a few tiny sections of Philly, SF and Boston, modern American highrise districts tend to be crap.

Agree with most of this. With the exception of Manhattan projects and the few other tiny areas you mention, lenders and/or municipalities tend to insist on parking minimums for new construction residential high rises that make for significant challenges when trying to activate the street level and avoid things like block-long blank walls.

With regard to the subject of this thread, the discussion over the months has consistently veered toward why a high-rise [[20-40 stories) should not or cannot feasibly be built on the Statler site. The objections are easy and valid. The argument is kind of irrelevant though because almost no one is advocating for such a large building. The market probably wouldn't support it, and urban friendly parking solutions would be very difficult. But the site is large enough to support a mid-rise [[7-15 stories) building that isn't stick-built and finished with EIFS and modular elements more appropriate for a Fairfield Inn by the expressway. And of course this is probably the second most visible and important site in the CBD after the Hudson's site.

The DEGC did this deal under a different administration and under a different economic climate. Sure do wish it could be revisited.

[cmubryan]

The Statler stood until like a decade ago. It's proposed replacement [[if it's ever built; like everything downtown it's "certain to break ground very soon") is suburban-style schlock, so serious downgrade.

Yeah, it's much better than a vacant lot, but it looks like something they would put up in Ferndale or Royal Oak, not in the very core of one of the largest U.S. cities.

The Statler stood EMPTY/ABANDONED until a decade ago. I’m 35 years old and the building was abandoned when I was born! A whole generation or two! It’s replacement is a solid mid rise. Why is the Statler site any more prominent than the Tuller site? I know of very few suburbs that would allow an 8 story midrise mixed use luxury apartment building. Birmingham, Royal Oak, Troy, Southfield and that’s about it.

[southen]

Solid? Yeesh. It is a poor design and the reason the Statler site is more prominent is one, the building there was more prominent than Tuller and two, it is a far larger block where this will be the only structure on it. It will be a disappointment to anyone who remembers what the Statler looked like there and how it fit in with the urban fabric.

[SpartanDawg]

The Statler stood until like a decade ago. It's proposed replacement [[if it's ever built; like everything downtown it's "certain to break ground very soon") is suburban-style schlock, so serious downgrade.

Yeah, it's much better than a vacant lot, but it looks like something they would put up in Ferndale or Royal Oak, not in the very core of one of the largest U.S. cities.

It has broken ground for the record. I agree the design is a downgrade from the Statler, but it's a massive upgrade over an empty lot. Win some lose some. Another 300-400 people will be living on that block now

[Nero]

Why can't they add stories later, when demand allows it?

[EGrant]

Why can't they add stories later, when demand allows it?

Adding height wouldn't help the fact that this building design is as inspired as a Whole Foods.

[313WX]

Why can't they add stories later, when demand allows it?

I'm pretty sure they won't be designing the building to allow for additional stories in the future.

[swingline]

Why can't they add stories later, when demand allows it?

Six stories is the maximum allowed under the International Building Code for stick-built buildings. The IBC limit is due to both structural and fire rating reasons.

[hybridy]

Six stories is the maximum allowed under the International Building Code for stick-built buildings. The IBC limit is due to both structural and fire rating reasons.

IBC allowable heights for residential wood construction

Multi-Family R-2
NFPA 13 Sprinklers
100% Open Perimeter

Type IIIA
Max Stories: 5
Max Height: 85'

Type IIIB
Max Stories: 5
Max Height: 75'

getting 6 stories would require the podium is non-combustible type construction. Detroit may have a local variance that i'm not familiar with.

http://www.awc.org/pdf/education/des...ion-140210.pdf

interesting sidebar: engineered wood construction is pushing heights limits in some places
http://www.architectmagazine.com/tec...ng-in-the-us_o

https://archpaper.com/2017/06/framew...lery-0-slide-0

The underlying aim of the Tall Wood Building Prize Competition is to encourage urban use of engineered wood harvested from sustainably managed forests, thereby stimulating rural economic growth in the nation. As Amir Shahrokhi, Project Director at SHoP Architects tells us, “By creating construction products which are value added goods, it raises the value that they can extract from the raw material.” But there are notable benefits to using engineered wood, in this case, cross laminated timber [[CLT) and glued laminated timber [[glulam). “It’s our only renewable building material,” Shahrokhi continues, “We can plant trees but we can’t find more iron ore, there’s a limited amount of it.”

https://untappedcities.com/2016/01/2...ng-to-chelsea/

[Nero]

I'm pretty sure they won't be designing the building to allow for additional stories in the future.

Six stories is the maximum allowed under the International Building Code for stick-built buildings. The IBC limit is due to both structural and fire rating reasons.

IBC allowable heights for residential wood construction

Multi-Family R-2
NFPA 13 Sprinklers
100% Open Perimeter

Type IIIA
Max Stories: 5
Max Height: 85'

Type IIIB
Max Stories: 5
Max Height: 75'

getting 6 stories would require the podium is non-combustible type construction. Detroit may have a local variance that i'm not familiar with.

http://www.awc.org/pdf/education/des...ion-140210.pdf

interesting sidebar: engineered wood construction is pushing heights limits in some places
http://www.architectmagazine.com/tec...ng-in-the-us_o

https://archpaper.com/2017/06/framew...lery-0-slide-0


https://untappedcities.com/2016/01/2...ng-to-chelsea/

The low height might have been picked to provide a stepped up element so the building behind it had a clear view of the park. Renderings, floorplans, and a construction photo are on the developer's website. Nero is no architect, but he has seen height added to buildings by adding new exterior and interior support structures as so weight is distributed off the rest of the underlying building. New Statler has a grand interior courtyard. Storefronts and balconies protrude out of the sides, hiding the factoid that New Statler has large setbacks on all sides.

Is New Statler but two separate buildings connected by a skywalk? How tall will the Bagley building be? It looks like there are but community features and a few ground floor apartments, with no retail facing Bagley. The vine inducing flower beds might make it not look as bad as the rendering.

Nero misses Old Statler, but will not dwell on the past. Time is better spent saving other at risk architecture in the Detroit City.

Website for New Statler: https://www.cityclubapartments.com/c...nstruction.asp

A setback tower inside the front crescent or in the central courtyard might look just as good.

[Dexlin]

So, since they started digging in mid-January, has this actually started construction [[i.e. driving piles, pouring concrete)? Anyone have any pictures?

[SpartanDawg]

So, since they started digging in mid-January, has this actually started construction [[i.e. driving piles, pouring concrete)? Anyone have any pictures?

I drove by the other day got a brief peek behind the fences. there's a HUUUUGE hole and definitely foundation work going in.. they went down very deep. i imagine there's gonna be a good amount of underground parking which is great. glad they're hiding it. the construction site is extremely active

[rjlj]

The site is extremely active because when they demoed the Statler, the city didn't do a proper clean up. Much of the Statler is still underground. This project will run over budget. It couldn't get off the ground because of cost restraints and unknowns.

the construction site is extremely active

[3WC]

Actually, the State of Michigan paid for and was responsible for the demo of the Statler and the environmental clean-up.

The plans call for two levels of underground parking but I'm told the site is now deep enough for 4 levels, which would provide parking for non-tenants [[the public) as well if they build that many spaces.

The developer received a $750,000 grant from Wayne County to assist paying for the environmental clean-up.

[EGrant]

Yeah you could see the original foundations when they started excavating. I'm sure that soil is a mess.

[DetroitGuy423]

Here’s what it looks like as of today:




When they started digging there was a lot of foundation stuff under the dirt that they spent several weeks breaking up. Concrete, bricks, etc. ton of stuff

**Edit - Sorry it's sideways, uploaded this on my phone and I don't know how to rotate it!

[Dexlin]

Actually, the State of Michigan paid for and was responsible for the demo of the Statler and the environmental clean-up.

The plans call for two levels of underground parking but I'm told the site is now deep enough for 4 levels, which would provide parking for non-tenants [[the public) as well if they build that many spaces.

The developer received a $750,000 grant from Wayne County to assist paying for the environmental clean-up.

Thanks for setting the record straight on this.

Yeah, I've been curious about why they were digging so deep for two floors of parking. I've not heard any change in this, so I'm a bit confused.

[Honky Tonk]

__________

[1953]

Thanks for the details. I was beginning to think they were trying to dig a tunnel to China.