Transit police on buses "24/7"

[professorscott]

"Detroit’s new public transportation director told lawmakers Tuesday he intends to upgrade the city’s troubled bus fleet, better coordinate routes with the suburban transit system and have 24/7 on-board police to keep passengers safe."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2vhuCh4OU

That fascinate me... that he plans to have police on the buses even when the buses are not running.

[Dexlin]

Oh, come on. Stop being pedantic. While the buses are in service, they plan to have police on them. What I find weird is that people seem to think that this [[the need for transit police) says something about Detroit when even the article is clear in that Detroit is basically the only system its size without a dedicated transit police presence. Still, until DDOT is spun off as a seperate entity like transit agencies just about everywhere else in the country, it's going to be hard to run a system dependent directly upon a city budget, even when the city's budget is healthier. I've been trying to rack my brain for another large city where the area's premiere transit agency is a literal city department directly dependant upon the city's general fund, and I can't think of any off the top of my head. This is an usual set-up. This really could have been posted in the existing transit thread, though. It's not worthy of its own.

[stasu1213]

Oh, come on. Stop being pedantic. While the buses are in service, they plan to have police on them. What I find weird is that people seem to think that this [[the need for transit police) says something about Detroit when even the article is clear in that Detroit is basically the only system its size without a dedicated transit police presence. Still, until DDOT is spun off as a seperate entity like transit agencies just about everywhere else in the country, it's going to be hard to run a system dependent directly upon a city budget, even when the city's budget is healthier. I've been trying to rack my brain for another large city where the area's premiere transit agency is a literal city department directly dependant upon the city's general fund, and I can't think of any off the top of my head. This is an usual set-up. This really could have been posted in the existing transit thread, though. It's not worthy of its own.

I had been asking the same question. The water dept is an entity unto itself so DDOT could be one as well Let the money go back into the system

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Does anyone know how many full-time [[or equivalent) police officers would be needed to man every bus?

[compn]

in 2012, March 19, DDOT metrics showed a peak period requirement of 241 buses

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...vides_dai.html

so thats about 200 officers.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

in 2012, March 19, DDOT metrics showed a peak period requirement of 241 buses

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...vides_dai.html

so thats about 200 officers.

I think that in order to figure out the number of officers needed, you would need to know how many total hours buses are used. Obviously, if 241 is the most buses in use at any one time, you would need 241 police officers at that time, but that doesn't take into account lower usage times, and buses that are in service for longer than 8 hours a day or more than 5 days a week. The most pertinent number for figuring out how many officers needed would be to determine the total number of hours all buses are in service a week. Then DDOT and DPD can determine how to staff it.

[Danny]

There's security cameras in most SMART buses, too.

[313WX]

Wait, so the city brought back 24/7 bus service?

When did this happen?

I recall under Bingo's administration and the Consent Agreement that they shut down service from 1-4 AM to save money...

[downtownguy]

Wait, so the city brought back 24/7 bus service?

When did this happen?

I recall under Bingo's administration and the Consent Agreement that they shut down service from 1-4 AM to save money...

I don't know the answer to your question, but the inference that bus service is 24/7 came from the reporter. Dirks' quote does not go that far.

Detroit’s new public transportation director told lawmakers Tuesday he intends to upgrade the city’s troubled bus fleet, better coordinate routes with the suburban transit system and have 24/7 on-board police to keep passengers safe.

“We need, especially now, [[transit police) in the buses at all times,” Detroit Department of Transportation Director Dan Dirks told members of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation.

[professorscott]

I don't know the answer to your question, but the inference that bus service is 24/7 came from the reporter. Dirks' quote does not go that far.

Most likely the reporter is not a passenger and has not studied the bus system, and does not realize that there is no longer overnight service. Similar to how the State, when it wrote the Belle Isle agreement, specified that public transit vehicles would not have to pay admission, ignorant of the fact that no public transit vehicle has entered the park for several years now.

[DetroitPlanner]

Most likely the reporter is not a passenger and has not studied the bus system, and does not realize that there is no longer overnight service. Similar to how the State, when it wrote the Belle Isle agreement, specified that public transit vehicles would not have to pay admission, ignorant of the fact that no public transit vehicle has entered the park for several years now.

I read that as being a permissive clause if the service is restored, not an ignorant one.

[professorscott]

I read that as being a permissive clause if the service is restored, not an ignorant one.

OK. I like your interpretation better.

[mwilbert]

I did not read this as meaning that they would man every bus, which would be impossibly expensive, but rather that there would be a police presence on the bus system during all hours during which it operates--I doubt they were making a comment on the bus schedule specifically.

[stasu1213]

They are subsidized. Most places have an RTA which is funded by some kind of regional tax or from general revenue of the state or states


where the RTA operates. Sometimes there are dedicated revenues from weird places--the MTA in New York gets revenue from bridge tolls. Capital costs are subsidized by the Federal government.

Is the Detroit Water Dept funded by regional tax? Is it for profit? Is the mony collected from customers put back into the dept? DDOT could operate the same way if the answer to the last question is yes

[mwilbert]

DDOT does operate in the same way. The difference is that water companies can charge enough to cover their costs, and bus companies can't. As a result, DDOT needs money from the general city budget to keep operating, which the Water and Sewer department does not.

[stasu1213]

DDOT does operate in the same way. The difference is that water companies can charge enough to cover their costs, and bus companies can't. As a result, DDOT needs money from the general city budget to keep operating, which the Water and Sewer department does not.

How many people commute on DDOT daily? That is not enough money to go back into the system for upkeep and purchasing of new busses?

[professorscott]

How many people commute on DDOT daily? That is not enough money to go back into the system for upkeep and purchasing of new busses?

Remember - it costs DDOT much, much more to transport someone than the fare that person pays. DDOT only recovers 25% to 30% of its operating costs at the farebox. So that - I assume by "that" you mean the farebox revenue - is not even close to enough to just operate the system, much less pay for new buses.

[That Great Guy]

Remember - it costs DDOT much, much more to transport someone than the fare that person pays. DDOT only recovers 25% to 30% of its operating costs at the farebox. So that - I assume by "that" you mean the farebox revenue - is not even close to enough to just operate the system, much less pay for new buses.

With Dan Dirks at the wheel, the problems of running the buses on time and balancing the DDOT budget will be solved.

It is unfortunate the RTA tax is not coming in 2014 and is pushed back to 2016 Good reliable, safe, on time public bus service for Detroit is essential in my opinion.

[Hermod]

How many people commute on DDOT daily? That is not enough money to go back into the system for upkeep and purchasing of new busses?

No, urban transit systems haven't been profitable since the post World War One [[1920) boom in wages. The politicians and the newspapers always spread the word that the privately-owned transit systems were making obscene profits at the expense of the riders. After they took them over and they became public services, the politicians learned just how bad the economics of running a transit system were.

[stasu1213]

I hate hearing people say that there are not enough people living downtown to support retail. That is the biggest B.S said. A good transportation system bring potential shoppers from all around to support retail downtown. Don't need residents living in the downtown area to support it. Detroit did not have many residents living downtown 50 years ago when retail were thriving. Most shoppers had caught the bus or used street cars in an earlier era to go downtown to shop. Go figure

[astongraham]

I hate hearing people say that there are not enough people living downtown to support retail. That is the biggest B.S said. A good transportation system bring potential shoppers from all around to support retail downtown. Don't need residents living in the downtown area to support it. Detroit did not have many residents living downtown 50 years ago when retail were thriving. Most shoppers had caught the bus or used street cars in an earlier era to go downtown to shop. Go figure

Thats a correct statement. We dont really have to rely on downtown residents to support downtown retail. There are enough people in the city to support it. Many residents currently drive to area malls that they currently don't leave near. Those that don't drive rely on public transit to shop, which requires long waits and multiple transfers. Most buses within the city pass through the downtown Woodward corridor, which means much easy access to city residents, shorter travel times, and one bus access.

[professorscott]

Thats a correct statement. We dont really have to rely on downtown residents to support downtown retail. There are enough people in the city to support it. Many residents currently drive to area malls that they currently don't leave near. Those that don't drive rely on public transit to shop, which requires long waits and multiple transfers. Most buses within the city pass through the downtown Woodward corridor, which means much easy access to city residents, shorter travel times, and one bus access.

In order for a retail district to attract the quantity of shoppers required for sustainable profitability, you either have to have plenty of free parking [[like at the suburban mall) or frequent, reliable transit [[like in other cities). Downtown Detroit has neither.

[stasu1213]

In order for a retail district to attract the quantity of shoppers required for sustainable profitability, you either have to have plenty of free parking [[like at the suburban mall) or frequent, reliable transit [[like in other cities). Downtown Detroit has neither.

Dan Gilbert had just complete his Z lot parking structure. I could see a Target or something opening in the empty retail spot on the ground level and the customers could park in the lot for half price with a receipt. Downtown has many parking structures. The people mover could carry shoppers from parking structures to the parking district. Good reliable transit systems starting with good safe busses will bring shoppers from all over. Especially express busses that would pick up from certain areas and travel downtown non stop and back. I was on a downtown building tour. The tour guide had said that the only reason downtown doesn't have good retail for there are not enough residents living in the area. I told him that I disagree and he should travel to different cities across the country. They have reliable transportation to bring shoppers into the shopping districts and back to where they live. Detroit need urban thinkers as it's planners for making a revibrant downtown instead of planners who probably came from areas where they had a shopping mall in the area where they live where they could walk to. Downtown in many cities are set up different

[Bham1982]

Dan Gilbert had just complete his Z lot parking structure. I could see a Target or something opening in the empty retail spot on the ground level and the customers could park in the lot for half price with a receipt.

Why would Target do this? Outside of Minneapolis [[their HQ) and NYC, how many urban-style full-scale Targets exist?

Gilbert, the grand savior, hasn't attracted a single retailer of note since announcing the move downtown back in 2007.

[masterblaster]

Why would Target do this? Outside of Minneapolis [[their HQ) and NYC, how many urban-style full-scale Targets exist?

Gilbert, the grand savior, hasn't attracted a single retailer of note since announcing the move downtown back in 2007.

Moosejaw, maybe?