Ukraine/Crimea

[jiminnm]

Well, here's what the ignorant North American media isn't telling anyone:

Russia's alleged motivations for moving into eastern Ukraine and into Crimea are "to protect the Russians" who live there. Well, where does that end?

Latvia--former Soviet Socialist Republic--has a significant proportion of Russians [[about 27%), with Russians constituting a majority in Riga. Do we just let Russia re-take Latvia to protect the ethnic Russians there?

And hell, while they're at it, why not re-take Lithuania too, since Lithuania is the only obstruction between "mainland" Russia and Kaliningrad Oblast? How many sovereign nations do we let Russia invade before we stop saying, "It's not our problem?"

Ukraine--and the other nations of Central Europe--lived under Russian "protection" for centuries. Such a situation is the *last* thing those people want, especially as Gistok noted, the EU member states of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia have grown wealthier in the past decade. This current line of rationalization is nearly identical to that used after World War II--and it didn't turn out too well for the Central Europeans.

In my perception, since this part of the world isn't on the "official" American Tourist Loop of Dublin-London-Paris-Amsterdam-Rome, this is a mysterious region where we don't have a lot of people who understand the history and culture. Regardless of the outcome, I don't think it infeasible that the western portion of Ukraine [[much of which was historically part of Poland), separates and seeks to join the EU.

"The Ukrainians are our neighbors. They are fighting for the same things we did back in 1989 - for a country that is more democratic, less corrupt and is European."

-Radoslaw Sikorski, Polish Foreign Minister

George Will has written about this and drawn the similarities between Putin's actions and rationale and Hitler's actions and rationale of the late 1930s.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...d74_story.html

[sveta]

Детройт не принадлежит России-матушки.

Я знаю. Я предлагаю вам провести референдум и вступить в состав России))

[sveta]

China's economy is growing faster than that of Russia's, and that China's military expenditure is over twice that of Russia's, you are very sanguine about history not repeating itself.

Да, оптимистично. Думаете повторится монголо-татарское иго? Вряд ли

[sveta]

George Will has written about this and drawn the similarities between Putin's actions and rationale and Hitler's actions and rationale of the late 1930s.

А нам Барак Обама напоминает Гитлера.

[sveta]

Кстати, какая в Детройте средняя зарплата, какие квартиры?

[jiminnm]

А нам Барак Обама напоминает Гитлера.

I did not say that Putin was Hitler, that remains to be seen. I did refer to a column stating that he is following Hitler's game plan of the late 1930s, and using the same rationale to do it. Read Hitler's speeches of 1936-1938, then look at his actions.

[oladub]

Да, оптимистично. Думаете повторится монголо-татарское иго? Вряд ли

"All indications show that the Russian Far East is fast becoming [[if it has not already become) economically dependent on China. Its future is in the hands of the local Chinese, not Russian local authorities. The Chinese cultivate the land, which the Russians are not motivated to do on their own. Local authorities and businessmen don’t complain about dwindling Russian manpower beyond the Amur River as they can easily replace native workers with Chinese who are willing to work 12 hours a day or more."
http://hir.harvard.edu/will-china-co...beria?page=0,1

You will let them vote like resident of the Crimea were allowed to, won't you?

[sveta]

oladub, ваши опасения преувеличены.
Крым всегда был нашим. Дальний Восток тоже. Китайцы могут хотеть чего угодно, но кто ж им отдаст территории? Или вы полагаете, что жители Дальнего Востока внезапно проведут референдум и сами захотят присоединиться к Китаю? ))) Это бред.
По большому счету мигранты не такая уж и проблема. Они работают там и за такую зарплату, куда ни один россиянин не пойдет. [[Кстати, какая в Детройте зарплата?). И если в один прекрасный день мигранты станут не угодны, их за неделю выставят на родину. Они здесь лишь до тех пор пока нужны как дешевая рабочая сила. Это правда.
На самом деле я им [[мигрантам) сочуствую. Я тоже была дешевой рабсилой, когда приехала из региона в Москву.
Знаете, Москва ведь тоже когда-то была "закрытой", был лимит на приезжих из других регионов.

[oladub]

oladub, ваши опасения преувеличены.
Крым всегда был нашим. Дальний Восток тоже. Китайцы могут хотеть чего угодно, но кто ж им отдаст территории? Или вы полагаете, что жители Дальнего Востока внезапно проведут референдум и сами захотят присоединиться к Китаю? ))) Это бред.
По большому счету мигранты не такая уж и проблема. Они работают там и за такую зарплату, куда ни один россиянин не пойдет. [[Кстати, какая в Детройте зарплата?). И если в один прекрасный день мигранты станут не угодны, их за неделю выставят на родину. Они здесь лишь до тех пор пока нужны как дешевая рабочая сила. Это правда.
На самом деле я им [[мигрантам) сочуствую. Я тоже была дешевой рабсилой, когда приехала из региона в Москву.
Знаете, Москва ведь тоже когда-то была "закрытой", был лимит на приезжих из других регионов.

Sveta,
1) There are people in other countries who do not agree that Crimea has always been yours.
2) The residents of Inner Mongolia and Manchuria didn't have a referendum either but became part of China anyway after enough Chinese had migrated there.
3) China claims what it wants, when it wants. Consider Tibet or China's new claims to the South China Sea.

Good luck on sending "cheap labor" back home when you don't want it anymore and on China's perpetual good behavior.

I didn't understand the translation of "[[By the way,whatDetroit's money?)".

[sveta]

There are people in other countries who do not agree that Crimea has always been yours.

Ну вот какое дело другим странам до России и до Крыма? Хотя о чем я? США везде надо сунуть свой нос.

I didn't understand the translation of "[[By the way,whatDetroit's money?)".

Я не знаю как это у вас называется))
Зарплата, заработная плата, оплата за труд, вознаграждение за работу. В среднем за месяц - сколько?

[oladub]

Ну вот какое дело другим странам до России и до Крыма? Хотя о чем я? США везде надо сунуть свой нос.

I think what you are saying is that the US shouldn't be sticking its nose into so many countries business. I agree with that and partly because what happens to Europe's neighbors is more Europe's business than that of the US. My comment though was that not everyone agreed that Crimea had always been yours. I just looked it up and at least 10 nations have claimed and controlled Crimea most recently Ukraine. So even though I lean toward the US not sticking its nose into others' business, I think that the western world has cause to adjust its policies with respect to Russia when Russia suddenly starts mimicking Hitler's excuses for seizing part of Czechoslovakia. Trust has eroded. i disagree with sanctions but future partnerships are more difficult to form with a nation that is now seen as less trustworthy.

Я не знаю как это у вас называется))
Зарплата, заработная плата, оплата за труд, вознаграждение за работу. В среднем за месяц - сколько?

The translator wrote "I do not know how they call it)) Salary, wages, payment for labor, remuneration for work. Average per month - how much?" so i guess you are asking, " how much money do people make in Detroit? " I don't live in the Detroit area so someone else might better answer your question. I looked this up though: The median family income for the 5.4M people in the Detroit metropolitan area is $49,000. Median household income in the City of Detroit is $25,000.

[sveta]

$25,000.

in one month???? о_О

[sveta]

I'm coming to Detroit for permanent residence.

[rb336]

I'm coming to Detroit for permanent residence.

why? just curious

[oladub]

in one month???? о_О

No such luck. That is the average annual household income per family.

I used these links-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiga..._capita_income

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...median_in.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest..._United_States

[sveta]

why? just curious

Во-первых, у вас живет Эминем.
Во-вторых, у вас снимали 8-ю милю
В-третьих, у вас зарплата 25 тысяч долларов в месяц!!!! Если я правильно поняла.

[sveta]

А какие у вас квартиры? Сколько комнат? Арендная плата в месяц?

[oladub]

А какие у вас квартиры? Сколько комнат? Арендная плата в месяц?

[[What are your apartment? How many rooms? Rent per month?) -Google translator

Anyone want to field that?

[sveta]

Я хотела спросить, как живут в Детройте? Какие дома? Или квартиры? Сколько жители Детройта платят за квартиру в месяц?
Мы сейчас живем в маленькой квартире, я плачу за нее 1000 $ в месяц.
Я хочу [[где-то глубоко внутри) переехать в Детройт. А вдруг на другом конце земли хорошо?

[oladub]

Sveta wrote[[as translated by Bing) "I wanted to ask how to live in Detroit? What home? Or apartment? How Detroit residents pay per apartment per month? We now live in a small apartment, I pay for her $ 1,000 a month.
I want [[deep inside) to move to Detroit. And suddenly, at the other end of the earth right?"

Sveta, I don't live in Detroit. Someone from there would have to answer your question. Prices here depend so much on things like condition, safety, and location. Detroit, for instance would be different than its suburbs. I live closer to Madison WI where a small two bedroom 820 square foot apartment in good shape in a safe neighborhood might rent for $875/month. I know of one larger two bedroom apartment in Minneapolis a relative rents for $1,200/month. In small towns where there are no jobs, rent is much lower. That is a concern I have. That too many Americans are already out of work. How do you propose putting more Americans to work should you move here? On the other hand, I appreciate that Snowden was offered a sanctuary in your Country so maybe you could be part of an exchange program.

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Are we in a new Cold War?

[Danny]

Once the Russians plan to invade and the rest of the very weak Commonwealth of Independent States. Cold War II will begin.

[sveta]

Это США виноваты в том, что начнется холодная война.

[sveta]

oladub, спасибо!
Правда про зарплату я так и не поняла [[

[jiminnm]

Это США виноваты в том, что начнется холодная война.

I think you need to learn more about what happened in 1945-1946, beginning in Germany at the end and after the war, about Russian spy rings in Canada and the US during and after the war, and and Stalin's 1946 speeches about the inevitability of war with "the west".