Elimination of Money for RTA Proposed

[Honky Tonk]

Ok, Again though, wasn't the requirement for "reimbursement" from the Feds that we needed to have an RTA? Since we don't have an RTA [[or may not if this budget gets passed with out revision) then those reimbursements go away...right? Since no shovel went into the ground until those funds were approved, wouldn't that mean that no construction will happen without an RTA?

"LaHood also thanked the state legislature for passing a regional transit authority [[RTA), which had been a requirement for receiving the federal dollars."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2502335.html

[bailey]

"LaHood also thanked the state legislature for passing a regional transit authority [[RTA), which had been a requirement for receiving the federal dollars."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2502335.html

Exactly... DP why are you dancing around this ? I don't understand how what you're saying jives with what had been widely reported.

[Eber Brock Ward]

I think the issue is in distinguishing between technical and actual.

In actuality, DOT arms [[FTA, FAA, etc.) always want to be happy up front before they obligate funds from their budgets. In this case, an RTA was needed to make FTA happy, and subsequent to the RTA's creation, the funds were obligated. Technically, though, the RTA didn't need to exist to obligate the money, because of the structure of the flow of funds.

So DP is right from a technical perspective but incorrect from a "real world" perspective. Others are right from a "real world" perspective but incorrect from a technical perspective.

Vote yes in 2016.

[DetroitPlanner]

Exactly... DP why are you dancing around this ? I don't understand how what you're saying jives with what had been widely reported.

How do you think SMART, DDOT and the People Mover got federal dollars in the past? Don't believe everything you read.

[bailey]

How do you think SMART, DDOT and the People Mover got federal dollars in the past? Don't believe everything you read.

isnt the people mover we have today the result of a loss of federal funding of transit?

Look, it's a simple question, are Federal dollars earmarked for M1 tied to the creation of an RTA? because this:

LaHood announced Friday a $25 million federal TIGER grant will go towards Detroit's M1-Rail project to build a light rail line on Woodward Avenue in the city's downtown. A planned regional network of rapid buses will receive an initial $6.5 million in funds.
...
"LaHood also thanked the state legislature for passing a regional transit authority [[RTA), which had been a requirement for receiving the federal dollars."

seems to say they are.

Since it's pretty clear the RTA is in the cross hairs, when it's killed, what impact does that have on M1?

[RO_Resident]

If the RTA dissolves, the feds will tell us to pound sand if the region asks for any more money for transit expansion.

[professorscott]

Couple of points.

First, the FTA was insistent that Michigan pass legislation creating an RTA before they would commit the M1 money. Michigan did pass the legislation, and nobody is suggesting repealing any of those laws. The RTA will continue to exist, unstaffed and unfunded, in the worst-case scenario. Find me anyplace where LaHood or anyone else with FTA tied the M1 money to funding of RTA operations. Hint: you won't find it because it isn't there.

Second, one of the two houses of the state legislature has proposed a budget which does not provide any funding to the RTA. That doesn't mean there won't be any funding, although it's possible; that just means the RTA funding will be something likely to be debated in committee. If Michigan doesn't provide any funding for the RTA, then it would behoove the subordinate units of governments [[counties, cities) to come up with a short term funding plan.

Third, of course, all that's needed is a short term funding plan, because eventually the RTA will have its own dedicated revenue stream. Of course it's possible for the public to vote "no", in which case the RTA falls back to the other part of its charter, coordinating service between DDOT and SMART.

But the RTA isn't dead; it is just, in the worst case scenario, broke. Having been broke before, repeatedly, I can assure you it is a survivable [[though unpleasant) situation.

[Honky Tonk]

My guess this was all a load of crap. Ilitch, and the rest of the investors, wanted a transport rail "just like the big Cities" have to cart fans back and forth from parking lots, Cobo Arena, and "Port Detroit". They were instrumental in creating the RTA. Once receiving the taxpayer dollars, they disolved it. Now they have even a bigger draw for the hockey mega-center, and the yupsters don't have to learn how to drive, or invest in transportation. It's a win-win for everyone! [[in Midtown)

[DetroitPlanner]

isnt the people mover we have today the result of a loss of federal funding of transit?

Look, it's a simple question, are Federal dollars earmarked for M1 tied to the creation of an RTA? because this: seems to say they are.

Since it's pretty clear the RTA is in the cross hairs, when it's killed, what impact does that have on M1?

You are very confused. RTA is not a requirement as we have received federal funds prior to RTA's existence. RTA will be the body that will determine how much money will go to the separate transit agencies in the Detroit UZA. Prior to the RTA this was handled by the RTCC.

None of this has anything to do with Snyder and Michigan's budget.

As I mentioned earlier, M-1 is not part of the RTA. It will be run by a private organization that includes Quicken, Kresgee, Wayne State etc.
http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/...0PAC%20RTA.pdf

[313WX]

If the RTA dissolves, the feds will tell us to pound sand if the region asks for any more money for transit expansion.

Just like it almost did this time.

[Kevgoblue]

My guess this was all a load of crap. Ilitch, and the rest of the investors, wanted a transport rail "just like the big Cities" have to cart fans back and forth from parking lots, Cobo Arena, and "Port Detroit". They were instrumental in creating the RTA. Once receiving the taxpayer dollars, they disolved it. Now they have even a bigger draw for the hockey mega-center, and the yupsters don't have to learn how to drive, or invest in transportation. It's a win-win for everyone! [[in Midtown)

This.

Problem is we are going to spend a crap load of money to make things more convenient for a few and more lucrative for the already wealthy. All the while we will have made no steps to address the lack of regional transportation Regionalism? WTF is that?

[bailey]

You are very confused. RTA is not a requirement as we have received federal funds prior to RTA's existence. RTA will be the body that will determine how much money will go to the separate transit agencies in the Detroit UZA. Prior to the RTA this was handled by the RTCC.

None of this has anything to do with Snyder and Michigan's budget.

As I mentioned earlier, M-1 is not part of the RTA. It will be run by a private organization that includes Quicken, Kresgee, Wayne State etc.
http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/...0PAC%20RTA.pdf

If the RTA is irrelevant to M1...if it could go away tomorrow and have no effect on M1... then what was the hold up in getting the federal funds? What was LaHood talking about?

LaHood said in June that M1 wouldn't receive a previously earmarked $25 million grant, which was subsequently allocated to the Detroit Department of Transportation via the state.

Instead, LaHood promised another $25 million for M1 if the state created and approved an RTA, and also answered operational and funding questions he had about the streetcar project.

I'm not sure I agree with PS on whether or not creating an RTA but never funding it isn't a concern since the RTA going forward is the designated recipient of federal funds.

I also understand this RTA funding issue is merely a proposal and not a final budget. I'm saying IF it is not changed and there are zero dollars allocated for an RTA...

As I mentioned earlier, M-1 is not part of the RTA. It will be run by a private organization that includes Quicken, Kresgee, Wayne State etc.

... yes I get that. but for only 10 years, then its supposed to be "donated"

.M1 has said it will endow a $10 million fund to operate and maintain the system for up to 10 years, until 2025, at which point the group plans to donate the project assets and operating responsibility to a public agency, such as the proposed regional transit authority.

if there is no RTA who are they donating it to? DDOT?

[professorscott]

if there is no RTA who are they donating it [M1] to? DDOT?

An excellent question. Even if there is an RTA, there is no guarantee the M1 Rail folks will be able to "donate" it to the RTA. A recipient has to agree to accept a gift, and the RTA legislation was written so as to make it mind-numbingly difficult for the RTA to build or absorb any rail infrastructure.

If there is an RTA, I see arm twisting to convince the RTA to take over M1. If there isn't - which is not likely - then M1 will likely remain under control of the existing nonprofit entities.

M1 is not likely to try to convince any existing transit operator to take over the rail service.

[downtownguy]

Originally Posted by EastsideAl
As I say over and over again, Lansing is not our friend, and does not and never has had our best interests in mind. In fact, if it benefits Detroit or "Detroiters" in any way there's a certain hard core of people in Lansing who will be dead set against it.

Demonizing people with opposing opinions doesn't help.

I dont' agree with all this Lansing hate, but I can see how actions in the past were harmful. Detroit hated Lansing. Lansing hated Detroit. Mostly that's over.

But whenever Lansing doesn't jump to do what you think is right, it only hurts us to scream hateful, divisive things.

I'd say EastsideAl's statement is a pretty fair and rational assessment. Where do you get that he's demonizing anyone?

[Detroitnerd]

I'd say EastsideAl's statement is a pretty fair and rational assessment. Where do you get that he's demonizing anyone?

Smarm is as smarm does. Wes regularly causes my smarm-meter to redline ...

[astongraham]

I'm just done with this particular region, especially on the transit issues.. I'm single, no spouse, no kids.. so it won't be that drastic for me compared to those who would have to move a family.. but I don't see things in the aggregate getting much better in the next five years. Despite the best efforts of some [[and the modest efforts of others), the general cultural/political mood seems to be 'we like/want things just the way they are'.. Oh, well.

Things aren't getting better in Detroit and the region, things are only stabilizing. Much like a patient that was dying, but now just in a coma. We are years and years away from being in the same level and quality if living as some of the worst areas of this nation. Hell we still celebrate when we get a 7-11. No other city in the nation celebrates when they get something as mediocre as a 7-11 [[it's like a starving kid that's been locked in a cage for years finally having someone hand him a chicken wing).

For the person that said we has good public transit, what we have is a city owned transit department that is nothing more than a bedbug infested homeless/loony bin moving system that is unreliable and will cause whomever using it to be fired from there job because it sucks and works for no one. I still have issues with the driver getting off the bus to pay their lottery even though the bus is late.

Now we are gonna add people mover 2.0 with the hope that we would gain a regional transit agency that the state congress wants to kill. 70+ years to get to this point, just to have to start over again. This is a FANTASTIC place to live, especially if you are blinded by your Detroit pride.

[That Great Guy]

save the fuel tax org


An interesting website that I found by searching to learn about the RTA and how it can work.

[compn]

Things aren't getting better in Detroit and the region, things are only stabilizing. Much like a patient that was dying, but now just in a coma. We are years and years away from being in the same level and quality if living as some of the worst areas of this nation.

i think its more like detroit is on life support, half of us are arguing who gets to pull the plug and the other half are arguing who has to pay the bill.

then theres some loud people who get media attention saying how alive the city is. "look, detroit moved its head! its still alive!".

maybe i'm being too harsh.

i'm not talking about the people of detroit. i think a lot of detroiters are trying to turn the city around. i'm only talking about the leadership and lansing.

[jiminnm]

We are years and years away from being in the same level and quality if living as some of the worst areas of this nation. Hell we still celebrate when we get a 7-11. No other city in the nation celebrates when they get something as mediocre as a 7-11.

It was the same 20 years ago when the IHOP on Jefferson was built [[even though Detroit lost Little Harry's, which used to be there). You would thought Hudson's was brought back to life.

[That Great Guy]

RTA Agreement = End to Federal and State Subsidies to SMART and DDOT

Freedom from a free market system in exchange for Communism, if a majority vote of YES prevails in 2016 without concessions.