M-1 rail discussion

[dtowncitylover]

A few things are still unclear:

Where are the fare boxes? How will they operate?
Will there be contactless/smart card/apple pay payments?
How will transfers from DDOT, SMART and DPM be handled?
What about fare validation? Random checks? What will be the penalties?

My hope is that there will be a regional smart card that will work as contactless payment for all transport for the region.

Well considering none of the stations are completed yet, I would say it's premature to demand where fare boxes are if they can't be installed yet.

But the others questions are legit. Their website says the transfer system has yet to be figured out.

[casscorridor]

Well considering none of the stations are completed yet, I would say it's premature to demand where fare boxes are if they can't be installed yet.

But the others questions are legit. Their website says the transfer system has yet to be figured out.

Well, i've been on tram systems in Europe were there are fare boxes are inside the tram.

[dtowncitylover]

Well, i've been on tram systems in Europe were there are fare boxes are inside the tram.

Cool story bro.

[Bobl]

If the RTA millage is defeated how will the Q Line be funded after 2024?

[professorscott]

If the RTA millage is defeated how will the Q Line be funded after 2024?

That is such an excellent question that Bill Shea asked your kindly old professor the same question: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...s-for-m-1-rail

[swede1934]

Re fareboxes, you might look at the system being installed on the new streetcars in Toronto for some ideas. That way would allow entrance and exit through all entryways cutting down on the time spent stopped at the stations. That system also has options to cut down on the number of people trying to ride without paying.

[emu steve]

BTW, I saw that the est. ridership in 5 years of 5M trips yearly or about 13,700 daily.

That equates to about 1K per hour. Doable?

Would the cars be very, very full at peak times to reach that level of ridership?

My guess the initial ridership estimates of 1.8M trip per year will be easily met. That's less than 5K / day or 350 per hour if the system is open 14 hours per day.

[dtowncitylover]

BTW, I saw that the est. ridership in 5 years of 5M trips yearly or about 13,700 daily.

That equates to about 1K per hour. Doable?

Would the cars be very, very full at peak times to reach that level of ridership?

My guess the initial ridership estimates of 1.8M trip per year will be easily met. That's less than 5K / day or 350 per hour if the system is open 14 hours per day.

Emusteve, if you've been watching the new Cincinnati streetcar they are having a fantastic start in terms of ridership despite the fact the mayor will not allow for more money for it from the city budget. That means that there are 2 more streetcars not being used. This is causing the streetcars to be packed full of people, sometimes blowing off stops, and only 2 streetcars running. If that's happening in Cincy, a city smaller than us, I can't imagine what Detroit will be like.

[ndavies]

Emusteve, if you've been watching the new Cincinnati streetcar they are having a fantastic start in terms of ridership despite the fact the mayor will not allow for more money for it from the city budget. That means that there are 2 more streetcars not being used. This is causing the streetcars to be packed full of people, sometimes blowing off stops, and only 2 streetcars running. If that's happening in Cincy, a city smaller than us, I can't imagine what Detroit will be like.

If the system is so popular why aren't they raising the fares to pay for the extra drivers to run those other streetcars? Raising the fares would bring the system back into balance. The increased money would allow for personnel hires and future equipment upgrades.

This is always the problem with mass transit. They never price the system to pay for itself or upgrades.

[dtowncitylover]

If the system is so popular why aren't they raising the fares to pay for the extra drivers to run those other streetcars? Raising the fares would bring the system back into balance. The increased money would allow for personnel hires and future equipment upgrades.

This is always the problem with mass transit. They never price the system to pay for itself or upgrades.

Then you little understand mass transit [[or any transportation infrastructure). If the system had to pay for itself a one way ticket on the Chicago El would probably have to cost $15+.

How about we price the cost of roads the same way. Every time you leave your driveway, every time you turn onto a new street, and every time you enter and exit a freeway, you can pay a toll. Sound good?

[ndavies]

We pay for the most of roads through fuel taxes. Once again you have the same problem with the roads. Road costs went up but the bureaucrats are unwilling to raise the fuel taxes to pay for the roads.

Nothing in life is free. When costs go up revenues must be raised to cover the costs.

When demand outstrips supply you must increase prices to allow for more services.

[emu steve]

Emusteve, if you've been watching the new Cincinnati streetcar they are having a fantastic start in terms of ridership despite the fact the mayor will not allow for more money for it from the city budget. That means that there are 2 more streetcars not being used. This is causing the streetcars to be packed full of people, sometimes blowing off stops, and only 2 streetcars running. If that's happening in Cincy, a city smaller than us, I can't imagine what Detroit will be like.

Thanks.

What a great problem to have in Detroit: Too many riders [[assuming that based on ridership and number of streetcars that capacity will be a problem at times).

I need a refresher to figure how many streetcars will be is use at any given time.

Gee, if the system is up and running by opening day 2017 [[Tigers) maybe I come out and combine both activities... and ride the QLine to the game.

[scooter]

Yes, I WISH Thr m-1 Rail luck if the RTA milage fails in Nov, this streetcar line will just been built in vain. there will only be money to run it for about a year, so people better get out to vote

[SpartanDawg]

Yes, I WISH Thr m-1 Rail luck if the RTA milage fails in Nov, this streetcar line will just been built in vain. there will only be money to run it for about a year, so people better get out to vote

I dont think thisbis true at all. As far as I know they have money for about 7 years as of now and are securing the last bit of funding to get to 10 years

[professorscott]

I dont think thisbis true at all. As far as I know they have money for about 7 years as of now and are securing the last bit of funding to get to 10 years

The Crain's story lays it out pretty well. If there is no RTA, I expect M1 and the city will be able to figure out how to fund it in perpetuity. Remember, even during Detroit's massive financial crisis, it kept running the DPM which the city pays for by itself.

[K-slice]

There is no way the city would allow the brand new streetcar system, well line I guess, to go down if the milage fails. They used to pay $5 for ever people mover passenger or something ridiculous even with the PM being far less popular and effective then the m-1 will be. If it somehow did come down to that however I think the vanity of some private backers of the project would drive them to step back in and do what needed to be done to save it

Honestly though, being a millennial myself I fully expect the streetcar to be packed and the line itself to be a huge success. Living downtown I basically avoid going places which aren't within walking distance; Midtown, Corktown, Rivertown etc. and know many others who do the same.

[emu steve]

There is no way the city would allow the brand new streetcar system, well line I guess, to go down if the milage fails. They used to pay $5 for ever people mover passenger or something ridiculous even with the PM being far less popular and effective then the m-1 will be. If it somehow did come down to that however I think the vanity of some private backers of the project would drive them to step back in and do what needed to be done to save it

Honestly though, being a millennial myself I fully expect the streetcar to be packed and the line itself to be a huge success. Living downtown I basically avoid going places which aren't within walking distance; Midtown, Corktown, Rivertown etc. and know many others who do the same.

I would think millennials would like the QLine.

Older folks are more wedded to their cars.

Streetcars, subways, etc. seems a 'hip' thing to do.

It all fits into the gestalt of what is happening in downtown/Midtown: Millennials are coming to work, live and play there and as such QLine is a perfect 'vehicle' for that lifestyle. They take QLine from home to work or entertainment without having to set foot in a car.

As I suggested before, I think the biggest 'problem' with the QLine is that it doesn't really provide a good means for say suburbanites to use it to get to a station with cheap parking and then leave their car and QLine the rest of the way. If parking near Comerica or LCA is 20 or 30 bucks, then streetcar could be a $ saver.

A fully functional mass transit system provides the means for a person living beyond the terminus of the streetcar/subway system to either a). take a bus to a station and transfer to the streetcar/subway OR b). drive to a station, park there, and transfer to the streetcar/subway.

[mwilbert]

As I suggested before, I think the biggest 'problem' with the QLine is that it doesn't really provide a good means for say suburbanites to use it to get to a station with cheap parking and then leave their car and QLine the rest of the way. If parking near Comerica or LCA is 20 or 30 bucks, then streetcar could be a $ saver.

Why do you think it doesn't do that? Seems to me as if it does. There are plenty of stations with nearby parking.

[emu steve]

Why do you think it doesn't do that? Seems to me as if it does. There are plenty of stations with nearby parking.

I'm glad to admit my ignorance.

If someone drove from 8 mile and Woodward, where would they park to get on the QLine?

Using myself as an example, [[driving from the Dearborn area) I typically take 94 to Trumbull and then go to Woodward. Could I park my car somewhere in or around the WSU campus and take QLine to avoid the traffic/parking nightmare around Comerica [[yes, when those surface lots went because of LCA I learned the hard way what a 20 or 30 minute wait could be to get out of a parking lot)?

Using examples of Comerica, Ford Field, and LCA, what folks hate is a short walk from a stadium/arena and then waste 15, 30 or more minutes trying to get out of a parking lot and away from a congested street or streets [[plural). [[When I could park at Woodward/Sproat I had NO trouble getting out of those parking lots and could say get to Cass or wherever I wanted quickly. It was my FAVORITE stadium/arena commute.

[mwilbert]

Personally, I'd probably park at New Center, because you have lots of parking there, including the enormous Fisher Building parking lot, so you are almost certain to find a space. There are quite a few choices near the Ferry stop; maybe the Rackham parking lot or the one at the Wayne welcome center, but there are many others.

[emu steve]

Personally, I'd probably park at New Center, because you have lots of parking there, including the enormous Fisher Building parking lot, so you are almost certain to find a space. There are quite a few choices near the Ferry stop; maybe the Rackham parking lot or the one at the Wayne welcome center, but there are many others.

Thanks,

I've been in the WSU book store [[parked on the street) and never paid attention to a parking garage there which would be ideal place to park and hop onto the QLine.

Also, I do now see a parking garage at E. Ferry and the surface lot at W. Ferry.

Indeed a number of options at WSU.

[ekleezy]

It really is too bad the M1 won't have it's own lanes. I imagine demand for it would be way higher for fans leaving Ford Field, Comerica and LCA if the streetcars wouldn't get stuck in post-game/concert traffic like everyone else. Hopefully it actually does work well for this purpose though

[emu steve]

It really is too bad the M1 won't have it's own lanes. I imagine demand for it would be way higher for fans leaving Ford Field, Comerica and LCA if the streetcars wouldn't get stuck in post-game/concert traffic like everyone else. Hopefully it actually does work well for this purpose though

How bad is the congestion on Woodward after a game/event?

My worst experiences haven't been with Woodward [[or at least northbound Woodward) but Montcalm/Clifford.

As one might guess it is GRIDLOCK [[shouting) after events. The grid is so tight there that it invariably would be a mess.

As far as events at LCA, hopefully those who drive will use all of the garages, etc. including not only the ones around LCA but the new one going up next to Comerica.

Should be interesting how much of that traffic ends up on say northbound Woodward.

[drjeff]

How bad is the congestion on Woodward after a game/event?

As one might guess it is GRIDLOCK [[shouting) after events. The grid is so tight there that it invariably would be a mess.

The Gridlock in Detroit when the streets are crowded is ridiculous. Why is nobody being ticketed for this? I have seen Woodward and Cass get backed up for blocks because a few assholes on MLK or another big intersection can't be bothered to stay out of the intersection.

[Gary Zasuwa]

Sign my petition to keep Q-Line running after 10PM. Not many people know but it will shut down every night at 10PM.


roger-s-penske-chairman-penske-corporationdan-gilbert-vice-chairman-quicken-loans-keep-q-line-m1-rail-running-past-10-pm