M-1 rail discussion

[professorscott]

Sign my petition to keep Q-Line running after 10PM. Not many people know but it will shut down every night at 10PM.

A couple thoughts. First of all, Paul Childs has said they would consider running QLine later in the evening if demand is there. Second, M1 Rail is spending its own money to operate the system, and they are going to tweak service over time based on several parameters including cost considerations and the needs of the local residential and business communities; I doubt they will give much weight to a petition. Having said that, though, go for it. It can't possibly hurt. But if you want it to run later, once it starts running, get all your friends to ride it in its last hour of operation, as often as possible; that is more likely to sway the decision.

[Jason]

Shoulda been a people mover imo

[casscorridor]

A couple thoughts. First of all, Paul Childs has said they would consider running QLine later in the evening if demand is there. Second, M1 Rail is spending its own money to operate the system, and they are going to tweak service over time based on several parameters including cost considerations and the needs of the local residential and business communities; I doubt they will give much weight to a petition. Having said that, though, go for it. It can't possibly hurt. But if you want it to run later, once it starts running, get all your friends to ride it in its last hour of operation, as often as possible; that is more likely to sway the decision.

Just take an uber. Or walk. Lol

[dtowncitylover]

Just take an uber. Or walk. Lol

I get you're being facetious, but can we talk about the No campaign's stupid stance of relying on Uber/Lyft for our regional transit needs? Show me one study that rideshare companies actually stimulate the economy in the way good public transportation and the diversity of transportation modes do. There's now not much difference between the traditional cab and Uber/Lyft, so how exactly is this going to help the region?

I am pleased to see Cincinnati's streetcar beating expectations and adding streetcars during all hours. I can't wait for us to do the same and I have no doubt in my mind that people are going to be wanting this to extend past 10 pm.

[professorscott]

I get you're being facetious, but can we talk about the No campaign's stupid stance of relying on Uber/Lyft for our regional transit needs?

Does anyone here know who or what is behind the "no" campaign, and what their real agenda is? Is it just the usual far-right anti-tax-for-anything crowd, and does it have a public face? Knowing this would help to counter it.

Oddly, it helps the transit proposal that Mr. Trump's candidacy is imploding; many who might have voted for Mr. Trump [[and against a transit proposal, methinks) and who [[1) are disgusted by the current allegations to the point that they won't vote for him, but [[2) still can't contemplate voting for Ms. Clinton [[and do not, as I do not, take any of the other three candidates particularly seriously) might just stay home. So if you thought behind-the-scenes events at the Miss Teen USA pageant [[just for one example) could not influence transportation policy, you might just turn out to be wrong.

[Junjie]

I get you're being facetious, but can we talk about the No campaign's stupid stance of relying on Uber/Lyft for our regional transit needs? Show me one study that rideshare companies actually stimulate the economy in the way good public transportation and the diversity of transportation modes do. There's now not much difference between the traditional cab and Uber/Lyft, so how exactly is this going to help the region?

I am pleased to see Cincinnati's streetcar beating expectations and adding streetcars during all hours. I can't wait for us to do the same and I have no doubt in my mind that people are going to be wanting this to extend past 10 pm.

The article in the Detroit News a couple days ago about replacing all buses with Uber was deeply stupid but typical of this thinking. There's some good content on this site regarding exactly why it's both infeasible and undesirable, if you want to arm yourself for any conversations in the last couple weeks of the election season. To put it very simply: replacing hundreds of thousands of bus riders with hundreds of thousands of individual cars means a vast increase in both expense and traffic congestion.

[emu steve]

Does anyone here know who or what is behind the "no" campaign, and what their real agenda is? Is it just the usual far-right anti-tax-for-anything crowd, and does it have a public face? Knowing this would help to counter it.

Oddly, it helps the transit proposal that Mr. Trump's candidacy is imploding; many who might have voted for Mr. Trump [[and against a transit proposal, methinks) and who [[1) are disgusted by the current allegations to the point that they won't vote for him, but [[2) still can't contemplate voting for Ms. Clinton [[and do not, as I do not, take any of the other three candidates particularly seriously) might just stay home. So if you thought behind-the-scenes events at the Miss Teen USA pageant [[just for one example) could not influence transportation policy, you might just turn out to be wrong.

More than just transportation policy...

Remember the hanging chads and butterfly ballots, by which, most believe that a plurality of Florida voters intended to vote for Gore but because of the butterfly ballot many Democrats in one county ended voting I believe for Pat Buchanan? [[I believe the ballots were cast Pat Buchanan for President and then Dems, down ballot, suggesting mispunches).

One senior CIA person said to me, speaking for himself, that Saddam was a washed up, two bit, cornered dictator who saber rattled Iran and ended up getting the Bush administration to start a war that Gore would not have...

And as Paul Harvey, that's the rest of the story [[according to one intelligence professional, others may have different opinions or stories).

Here is Wikipedia on the butterfly ballot and Pat Buchanan...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Bu...ntial_campaign

[dtowncitylover]

Does anyone here know who or what is behind the "no" campaign, and what their real agenda is? Is it just the usual far-right anti-tax-for-anything crowd, and does it have a public face? Knowing this would help to counter it.

Oddly, it helps the transit proposal that Mr. Trump's candidacy is imploding; many who might have voted for Mr. Trump [[and against a transit proposal, methinks) and who [[1) are disgusted by the current allegations to the point that they won't vote for him, but [[2) still can't contemplate voting for Ms. Clinton [[and do not, as I do not, take any of the other three candidates particularly seriously) might just stay home. So if you thought behind-the-scenes events at the Miss Teen USA pageant [[just for one example) could not influence transportation policy, you might just turn out to be wrong.

I believe the Michigan Taxpayer's Alliance, which is a pretty small group. A spokesperson also argues that we could give everyone a Chevy for the amount of money we would spend on transit. WTF?! Talk about welfare! Let's have the government dole out cars for everyone! Let's see how congested and worn our roads get then!

[casscorridor]

I get you're being facetious, but can we talk about the No campaign's stupid stance of relying on Uber/Lyft for our regional transit needs? Show me one study that rideshare companies actually stimulate the economy in the way good public transportation and the diversity of transportation modes do. There's now not much difference between the traditional cab and Uber/Lyft, so how exactly is this going to help the region?

I am pleased to see Cincinnati's streetcar beating expectations and adding streetcars during all hours. I can't wait for us to do the same and I have no doubt in my mind that people are going to be wanting this to extend past 10 pm.

I actually do think in the future, services like Uber will use autonomous vehicles to provide important transport function. It's absurd to say it can replace public transport like buses and trains, but it will be a integral part of the system, especially as the price goes down. And in suburbia, where public transport is spotty at best, autonomous vehicles could pick you up and drop you off at regional rail stations that bring you into the city for work, entertainment, etc.

[dmike76]

I just saw on the news that Q Line will run until 11 on weekdays and midnight on Friday and Saturday.

[dtowncitylover]

I just saw on the news that Q Line will run until 11 on weekdays and midnight on Friday and Saturday.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...nsit/92008582/

[ekleezy]

I hope the hours still get extended even more than this. There doesn't need to be all 6 streetcars running at 2am but there should be at least a couple. During peak hours a streetcar's supposed to show up something like every 8-12 minutes. Maybe late at night it's only every 30 minutes? At least enough so people can go downtown at night and not have to get an uber afterwards.

[swingline]

Many modern transit systems, including subway, light rail, streetcar, BRT and bus, include signage at their stations/stops indicating the wait time for the next arriving train/bus. Anybody know if the Q-Line will have this amenity?

[pkpk818]

Check out this picture of grand river and warren from 1942: http://www.detroittransithistory.inf...rren_1940s.jpg

I think a middle line seems more interesting.... But I don't have too much of an opinion. Detroit has bigger issues to tackle. Just glad it's happening, period!

[Junjie]

I hope the hours still get extended even more than this. There doesn't need to be all 6 streetcars running at 2am but there should be at least a couple. During peak hours a streetcar's supposed to show up something like every 8-12 minutes. Maybe late at night it's only every 30 minutes? At least enough so people can go downtown at night and not have to get an uber afterwards.

The original FAQ on their site said that Sunday all day would have 12-minute headways. So I think that's about the minimum they are going for, which is great news. If the streetcar only comes every 20 or 30 minutes you might as well just start walking, unless you know it's coming soon.

The new hours look much better to me. Glad they made this change proactively before operations got started.

[professorscott]

Many modern transit systems, including subway, light rail, streetcar, BRT and bus, include signage at their stations/stops indicating the wait time for the next arriving train/bus. Anybody know if the Q-Line will have this amenity?

That's an interesting question. Next time I talk to the M1 folks I'll ask. I was thinking, the even more modern thing is just to make that information available to you on your phone.

[ekleezy]

The original FAQ on their site said that Sunday all day would have 12-minute headways. So I think that's about the minimum they are going for, which is great news. If the streetcar only comes every 20 or 30 minutes you might as well just start walking, unless you know it's coming soon.

The new hours look much better to me. Glad they made this change proactively before operations got started.

True, if it was unpredictable with a 20/30 minute headway you might as well start walking. Like swingline said, hopefully there would be signage indicating what time to expect the streetcar, though. If it were to arrive every half hour after midnight at Campus Martius, for example, people enjoying nightlife could easily plan accordingly. Definitely wouldn't want to stand around waiting that long.

Whatever happens, I agree this update is definitely an improvement.

[Junjie]

That's an interesting question. Next time I talk to the M1 folks I'll ask. I was thinking, the even more modern thing is just to make that information available to you on your phone.

Let us know what you hear. Smartphone apps are well and good but there's still a chunk of the population that doesn't have one, or batteries die, or they never update the Android app... etc. etc. Signs at stations would be the best.

[CassTechGrad]

Does anyone here know who or what is behind the "no" campaign, and what their real agenda is? Is it just the usual far-right anti-tax-for-anything crowd, and does it have a public face? Knowing this would help to counter it.

Oddly, it helps the transit proposal that Mr. Trump's candidacy is imploding; many who might have voted for Mr. Trump [[and against a transit proposal, methinks) and who [[1) are disgusted by the current allegations to the point that they won't vote for him, but [[2) still can't contemplate voting for Ms. Clinton [[and do not, as I do not, take any of the other three candidates particularly seriously) might just stay home. So if you thought behind-the-scenes events at the Miss Teen USA pageant [[just for one example) could not influence transportation policy, you might just turn out to be wrong.

So if you thought behind-the-scenes events at the Miss Teen USA pageant [[just for one example) could not influence transportation policy, you might be happy to know that statements like this from the other presidential candidate will have no effect on her voter base at all. I wonder why??

[dtowncitylover]

So if you thought behind-the-scenes events at the Miss Teen USA pageant [[just for one example) could not influence transportation policy, you might be happy to know that statements like this from the other presidential candidate will have no effect on her voter base at all. I wonder why??

http://www.snopes.com/margaret-sanger-weeds/

Anyway, back to the M1 discussion...

[professorscott]

The original FAQ on their site said that Sunday all day would have 12-minute headways. So I think that's about the minimum they are going for, which is great news. If the streetcar only comes every 20 or 30 minutes you might as well just start walking, unless you know it's coming soon.

The new hours look much better to me. Glad they made this change proactively before operations got started.

Here are the projected hours per M1 Rail's web site.

QLINE’s projected hours of operation,

6 a.m.-11 p.m. Monday through Thursday
6 a.m.-midnight Friday
8 a.m.-midnight Saturday
8 a.m.-8 p.m. Sunday

More detail including projected headways [[8 to 12 minutes much of the time):
http://m-1rail.com/extended-hours-qline/

[dtowncitylover]

This is a very minute detail, but why would holiday hours vary? I would think it would be the Sunday hours as tradition in some transit systems, except for maybe Thanksgiving for the parade which it may not run at all.

[professorscott]

This is a very minute detail, but why would holiday hours vary? I would think it would be the Sunday hours as tradition in some transit systems, except for maybe Thanksgiving for the parade which it may not run at all.

Some holidays affect ridership more than others. A typical transit system, for instance, might run certain routes on a Saturday schedule for Columbus Day, a Sunday schedule for Labor Day, and not at all on Christmas. Others do it in the way you suggest: Sunday schedule or nothing at all. Methinks they actually haven't got down to that level of detail, yet.

[dtowncitylover]

Fyi, the second one arrived last night I hear.

[dtowncitylover]

Like the Promontory Summit in 1869, the end is here for the track work for M-1 Rail with a ceremony in the noonhour of the connecting of the last pieces of track.

It's going to be really cool to see the streetcar testing being done soon enough. I also suppose this is a good thing for the RTA people and showcase to the region how much need transit.