Belle Isle State Park

[jt1]

And all those parks in the UP - total population of just over 300,000. Yep, BI is the problem when it comes to the State DNR/Parks and Rec budget

[astongraham]

This is true but people don't usually amortize costs like this. They'll see the fee as an entrance fee. Once-a-year type users like myself will see it as an admission charge per visit, and lower income types will be less likely to be paying extra online for the annual pass during license renewal.

It's already stopped me from going to the park, because I used to swing by the arboretum and Dossin museum occasionally when I was on Jefferson on weekends, or when I was downtown with out-of-towners. I don't have the park pass, so I don't bother anymore.

I think you are once again overstating things. How could the pass requirement affect you so greatly and in so many instances when it was only implemented a few days ago? Stop the over embellishment of everything your say please.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

A year from now, when absolutely no one has stopped using Belle Isle, someone please remember to bump this thread back up so we can all get a good chuckle out of "The Injustice Sky Is Falling" crowd.

For what it's worth: if we replace the Scott Fountain with a Wal-Mart, those who can afford a car but not the pass can reinvest their savings on food into buying a Park Pass. Everyone's happy.

[Detroitnerd]

A year from now, when absolutely no one has stopped using Belle Isle, someone please remember to bump this thread back up so we can all get a good chuckle out of "The Injustice Sky Is Falling" crowd.

For what it's worth: if we replace the Scott Fountain with a Wal-Mart, those who can afford a car but not the pass can reinvest their savings on food into buying a Park Pass. Everyone's happy.

I think the phrase that fits the old Midwestern ethos neatly is "Plan for the worst, hope for the best." Hey, I wish I were wrong. But if everybody's so confident no poor families will be turned away, [[a) why was that one of the purported bonuses of this plan and [[b) why didn't they institute it on June 1?

Anyway, consider my complaint lodged. Though I'll probably lodge it again.

[Bham1982]

A year from now, when absolutely no one has stopped using Belle Isle, someone please remember to bump this thread back up so we can all get a good chuckle out of "The Injustice Sky Is Falling" crowd.

I'm pretty confident that Belle Isle exists in the same world as the rest of us, and the rules of consumer behavior will not be broken. If not, I guess I'll make a killing selling $11 donuts, since, heck, according to DYes, it's the exact same as a free donut.

[astongraham]

This is invented outrage. While I would prefer all parks be free, this is not a particularly tough blow to anyone. If someone can't come up with $11 once a year to drive the car they own, register, insure and buy gas for, well I will be blunt and say that person needs to be LOOKING FOR A JOB and not going to the park. Getting a job is better for your kids than a day in the park. Plus, every other city park is completely free.

I agree 100%. If you can't come up with 11 in a one year time span, you have much more pressing issue to deal with than trying to get into a park. This is a completely manufactured issue.

[ABetterDetroit]

We need better transit, including a bus that goes to Belle Isle. Getting upset about the $11 is missing the forest for the trees.

Your kidding there isin't a bus stop at the bridge going to the island? That is just stupid. Gee I would think that would be a big help in getting folks to the island that don't even have cars.

[Bham1982]

I agree 100%. If you can't come up with 11 in a one year time span, you have much more pressing issue to deal with than trying to get into a park. This is a completely manufactured issue.

You're not understanding the issue. The issue isn't whether people can come up with the money; it's if they will choose to spend the money for the same good in the same numbers that previously was offered for free.

Would you pay $100 for a Chicken McNuggets? I bet you could afford it, right? Won't affect your lifestyle one bit. So you will pay it?

[Honky Tonk]

I'm pretty confident that Belle Isle exists in the same world as the rest of us, and the rules of consumer behavior will not be broken. If not, I guess I'll make a killing selling $11 donuts, since, heck, according to DYes, it's the exact same as a free donut.

First of all, sorry to hear you're no longer going to Dossin's. The redo is terrific, and it looks great. Second, I can certainly emphatize with someone who's plight in life is so bad, they can't afford $11 a year for unlimited access to a well run State park, 365 days a year. Third, Your analogy is totally incorrect. You were giving away free doughnuts, now you're charging $11 a year, for unlimited doughnuts, 365 days a year. This in turn allows you to buy better batter, grease, frosting, and sprinkles, which in turn allows you to offer a superior doughnut.

[Bham1982]

Sorry Honkeytonk, but not all of us are high rollers like yourself.

I actually watch what I spend, and yeah, to me, $11 and 0 are different things. I won't pay $11 for a donut, and any $11 charge for something that was previously free will impact consumer behavior. The church picnic that previously cost 0 will now cost $500, yet people claim that this will have absolutely no effect on park-going habits.

The fact that people are actually debating this shows how far this thread has fallen off the deep end.

[Zacha341]

I agree. It's all about what is of interest and value. I looked forward to purchasing my pass asap. I wonder if the annual pass will be in the form of one of those window stickers? Or on the license plate??

I agree 100%. If you can't come up with 11 in a one year time span, you have much more pressing issue to deal with than trying to get into a park. This is a completely manufactured issue.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

You're not understanding the issue. The issue isn't whether people can come up with the money; it's if they will choose to spend the money for the same good in the same numbers that previously was offered for free.

Why should anyone be concerned that other people make different life choices? I disagree with people who say the fee affects people's ability to afford going to Belle Isle, but I do understand their argument. If you are arguing that people will be able to afford it, but it might affect their decision: who cares? If a bus route changes and your bus stop is moved to the other side of the street, it does not affect your ability to take the bus. It might affect whether or not you want to take it, but it is still available to you. As a grown up, you can make your own decisions, not subject to the approval of others. Belle Isle is changing a little bit, but it is still available to everyone. If those changes affect someone's desire to go, well, that's their own business.

[Khorasaurus]

I'm pretty confident that Belle Isle exists in the same world as the rest of us, and the rules of consumer behavior will not be broken. If not, I guess I'll make a killing selling $11 donuts, since, heck, according to DYes, it's the exact same as a free donut.

For an apples to apples comparison, it would be me giving you $11 dollars and you giving me as many donuts as I want for a year. And I could also go to other donut shops, and get unlimited donuts, too. All year.

Now, to continue the analogy, I used to get donuts from you for free. But they were kinda shitty donuts. So I might consider going from free shitty donuts to $11-per-year-all-you-can-eat better donuts.

Oh, and the only reason I would ever have to pay the $11 is if I park my car at your donut shop. If I walk, the donuts are still free.

Is it a change? Yes. Will it change some people's behavior? Yes. Will they be a noticeable number of people? No.

[astongraham]

a) ALL your assumptions are absolutely ridiculous. Nothing of what you say is remotely normal or even possible.
b) You're just looking for ANYTHING negative you can come up with.
c) Why would you avoid Belle Isle Park, when the fee doesn't even go into effect until your birthday?
d) Bull frikkin' shit dude.

I have personally been pulling my hair out about one bs statement after the next that this guy and another Nerd have been spewing in this forum. He keeps saying things that are blatantly false, only so that he can say something negative. Not everyone is dumb and gonna believe anything you say!

[Honky Tonk]

Sorry Honkeytonk, but not all of us are high rollers like yourself.

I actually watch what I spend, and yeah, to me, $11 and 0 are different things. I won't pay $11 for a donut, and any $11 charge for something that was previously free will impact consumer behavior. The church picnic that previously cost 0 will now cost $500, yet people claim that this will have absolutely no effect on park-going habits.

The fact that people are actually debating this shows how far this thread has fallen off the deep end.

Tell you what, Bham1982, when you feel like visiting Dossin's, give me a shout, and I'll DRIVE you accross the McArthur Bridge, FREE! Meanwhile, If I were you, I'd write Ricky in Lansing and ask him how come $350 mil, of the taxpayers money, is being donated to one of the richest guys in the State, [[maybe Country?) so he can erect a new hockey stadium and make even MORE money, without so much as even asking taxpayers "is this Ok with you?".

[jt1]

I'm getting confused. Do I get free donuts with my yearly $11 parks pass?

[astongraham]

Maybe DDOT should be free also, let's debate that as well. It is paid for by taxpayers but they also must pay a fee everytime they use it, not to mention the fact that routes and schedules are changed and canceled affects poor citizens in an adverse way. Does this not have a HUGE financial impact, since route fares are able to go up at a whim depending in how broke the system is? Wasn't it 50 cents, then a dollar, now it much more? This has to be payed each and everytime it's used. Is this not picking winners and losers as in who can ride and who cannot ride?
I am outraged I tell you, outraged!!

Added note, the city up to a point charged admission to the DIA, which is city owned and supported by tax dollars [[oh no, people were double paying).

[Honky Tonk]

I'm getting confused. Do I get free donuts with my yearly $11 parks pass?

Yes, But no sprinkles. Sprinkles are an additional $350 mil.......

[jt1]

Yes, But no sprinkles. Sprinkles are an additional $350 mil.......

Sure however I bet they get free sprinkles in wealthier communities.

[Honky Tonk]

Maybe DDOT should be free also, let's debate that as well. It is paid for by taxpayers but they also must pay a fee everytime they use it, not to mention the fact that routes and schedules are changed and canceled affects poor citizens in an adverse way. Does this not have a HUGE financial impact, since route fares are able to go up at a whim depending in how broke the system is? Wasn't it 50 cents, then a dollar, now it much more? This has to be payed each and everytime it's used. Is this not picking winners and losers as in who can ride and who cannot ride?
I am outraged I tell you, outraged!!

Added not, the city up to a point charged admission to the DIA, which is city owned and supported by tax dollars [[oh no, people were double paying).

Yeah, but don't forget that was put to a, uh, put to a..... [[what was it?) Oh Yeah, VOTE, and it passed. By the way, I do believe the DIA, and the Hysterical Museum, are no longer supported with City tax dollars.

[Crystal]

I like astongraham's analogy to doughnuts.

I don't agree with the reasoning that Detroit residents should be able to use Belle Isle for free because they had been allowed to use Belle Isle for free in the past. Things change.

If you have a child and don't take care of that child, the court can take the child away. A harsh analogy, I know. The City of Detroit did not take care of Belle Isle.

[Detroitnerd]

I like astongraham's analogy to doughnuts.

I don't agree with the reasoning that Detroit residents should be able to use Belle Isle for free because they had been allowed to use Belle Isle for free in the past. Things change.

If you have a child and don't take care of that child, the court can take the child away. A harsh analogy, I know. The City of Detroit did not take care of Belle Isle.

Congratulations, Crystal. It is my honor to present you with this forum's annual Stupidest Comparison Award.

[Honky Tonk]

Congratulations, Crystal. It is my honor to present you with this forum's annual Stupidest Comparison Award.

For a guy that moved out of Detroit to avoid supporting the City, you sure do rub a lot of people's noses in their posts, Hamtracknerd.

[Hermod]

I totally agree. The aquarium does not need to be a first class aquarium because of its location on Belle Isle. When I lived in West Village I would sometimes take visitors to the aquarium, but it part of our trip the the island - to see the conservatory, drive about the island, etc. Because of going to do several things, the size and scope of the aquarium never seemed to be a problem for me.

The Belle Isle Zoo wasn't a "world class zoo" and the conservatory was not a "world class arboretum" but the people enjoyed them just as much.

[BillyBBrew]

This makes no sense. An $11 charge will influence potential park user behavior.

If I open a doughnut shop selling free doughnuts, and then change to a doughnut shop selling $11 doughnuts, you're telling me that won't have any effect on number of doughnuts sold? Just beacuse $11 won't put people in the poorhouse doesn't mean it won't influence customer behavior.

Ummm, let's try for a little more accurate perspective here....

If you have a donut shop "selling" free donuts, and then change to a donut shop with an $11 charge for unlimited donuts for a year, as well as unlimited donuts at 101 other donut shops around the state, and so on and so forth....