Belle Isle State Park

**Hermod** · February-17-14, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

The State only budgeted $2.5 million for Belle Isle this year, so I don't know where the rest of the $6 million is coming from, but it ain't from the State. So they're actually spending less money on Belle Isle and charging Detroiters, many of whom who did not have State park passports before all of this to make up the rest. They're also keeping $2 million of money for water runoff on Detroit's tab. Thanks for the "help."

Maybe the city budget has $6M for Belle Isle but most of it is eaten up in personnel costs for people to sit on their ass. Maybe the state can run it well for $2.5M.

**Honky Tonk** · February-17-14, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Maybe the city budget has $6M for Belle Isle but most of it is eaten up in personnel costs for people to sit on their ass. Maybe the state can run it well for $2.5M.

Correct. Please refer back to the Mike Duggan Lighting Authority video for and in debt explaination on decision making and prioritization.

**Gistok** · February-17-14, 09:55 AM

"Obstructionist Mayor"?? He's only been mayor for 7 weeks...

So far in those 7 weeks Duggan has been trying to tackle some pressing issues... namely street lighting and auto insurance.... The only thing that Duggan is obstructing... is the status quo... all that dead wood that has been in city government for years too long....

So what obstruction are you referring to... please enlighten....

**southofbloor** · February-17-14, 10:03 AM

I wondered that too…

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · February-17-14, 10:11 AM

After this elitest land grab, will the annual DYes picnic still be on Belle Isle?

**corktownyuppie** · February-17-14, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

Isn't Belle Isle a large piece of land? Isn't it being leased to a government for free? Isn't the issue contentious? Doesn't it expand the state park territory? Are you going to tell me that I've misunderstood the definition of "land" and "government" next?

You must be crazy if you think Gov. Synder is going to take on something he thinks is going to lose him money.... He's a venture capitalist. He takes on entities that lose monies for others, reorganizes them and then makes them money creators for himself.

The city estimates the island gets 2 million cars a year, so yes, I think if the city charged they could make up the $6 million. I don't know where Kahn's 200k number comes from.

Belle Isle costs us money because we haven't charged for it like the State is doing. Don't tell me I own something that somebody else is using without paying for it. Would you let somebody live in your house for 30 years without paying rent in exchange for painting your basement?

If you can:

A) cite any evidence of Belle Isle getting 2,000,000 unique cars [[car count, not visitor count) annually

or

B) articulate any reasonable, coherent scenario where Belle Isle turns a profit for itself or for the State of Michigan

I will happily eat crow. Challenge issued.

ps given that the Metro Detroit population is approx 4,000,000 [[people, not cars), I remain openminded but skeptical.

**Hypestyles** · February-17-14, 11:27 AM

What I want to know is-- when will all of the restrooms get fixed

, or are porta-potties the new standard? What kind of plumbing infrastructure issues exist on the island? Is the state now responsible for all lighting improvements?

**corktownyuppie** · February-17-14, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

What I want to know is-- when will all of the restrooms get fixed

They've already started.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._polishin.html

Members of Youth Connection, an organization aimed at teaching trade skills, completed renovations in a bathroom; the roof of an out door shelter received a new roof and dangerous trees, 160, many of them dead from the Ash Borer or hollow, lay on their sides waiting to be fed into a grinder and turned into wood chips.

And more is right around the corner...they're already taking bids.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20140216/NEWS/140219902/state-seeks-belle-isle-contractors

There also will be a need for small repair and trades jobs -- such as roofs and in bathrooms -- followed by more significant projects in the future.

I think all the bathrooms should be operational by end of 2014 if not by end of summer. Not sure about your lighting question, though.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · February-17-14, 01:43 PM

The state has some discretion to invest money beyond the assigned park budget. For instance, state police can be assigned and paid for through the state police. Or transportation infrastructure payed for through MDOT. The state education dept or family independence agency could run day camps for city kids. They can also seek private sponsors for spaces or events on the island to invest money outside of the state budget. Not saying those things will happen, but the assigned state money is not necessarily all the money the state will direct into the park.

**Schoolcraft** · February-17-14, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

"Obstructionist Mayor"?? He's only been mayor for 7 weeks...

So far in those 7 weeks Duggan has been trying to tackle some pressing issues... namely street lighting and auto insurance.... The only thing that Duggan is obstructing... is the status quo... all that dead wood that has been in city government for years too long....

So what obstruction are you referring to... please enlighten....

It was sarcasm. The Mayor thought the Belle Isle deal was a bad deal, so according to the train of thought around here he's a fool for not wanting it either.

**Schoolcraft** · February-17-14, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

If you can:

A) cite any evidence of Belle Isle getting 2,000,000 unique cars [[car count, not visitor count) annually

or

B) articulate any reasonable, coherent scenario where Belle Isle turns a profit for itself or for the State of Michigan

I will happily eat crow. Challenge issued.

ps given that the Metro Detroit population is approx 4,000,000 [[people, not cars), I remain openminded but skeptical.

I never said that Belle Isle got 2 million unique cars. It is a city estimate that most certainly includes repeat cars if it is true. Belle Isle gets visitors from around the world. Don't know how many and I'm not gonna speculate, but I'd imagine a few come from Canada. So each of those visitors from outside MI would either have to pay $8 per visit or $29 for yearly pass, so there's that money too.

I'll take that challenge. I don't have to dream up a scenario. Between Rec Passports, Camping fees, and the possibility of turning the Boat Club into a hotel that's already being discussed they'll figure it out, but you better believe they aren't going to just lose money every year to help Detroit... we'll see.

**Schoolcraft** · February-17-14, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

What I want to know is-- when will all of the restrooms get fixed

, or are porta-potties the new standard? What kind of plumbing infrastructure issues exist on the island? Is the state now responsible for all lighting improvements?

The answer to the lighting question would be no. The State is not responsible for existing public utilities in the park... maintenance or repair.

**Gistok** · February-17-14, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

It was sarcasm. The Mayor thought the Belle Isle deal was a bad deal, so according to the train of thought around here he's a fool for not wanting it either.

OK... Schoolcraft... but with your responses... it's hard to gauge where sarcasm ends and reality kicks in...

**Honky Tonk** · February-17-14, 02:54 PM

I always find that one of these

helps.

**downtownguy** · February-17-14, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

... Lansing wanted to help...

That's the funniest line on this thread!

**ABetterDetroit** · February-17-14, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

That's the funniest line on this thread!

Everyone wants to help. Unfortunately the folks with the deepest pockets who set there own interest rates, print there own money, eject mammoth amounts of money into what ever they can get away with and raise their own debt limit...Just last week came out and said "bailing out Detroit would be politically unpopular so it was never considered". [[White House)

The Feds, Michigan or even the burbs don't benefit by Detroit being a shit hole that cant even pay its own bills. It drags on every ones economy and is a embarrassment to all AND it is a emotional kick in the balls to anyone who cares about HUMAN LIFE.

Detroit has to swallow their pride and learn how to not bite a helping hand if they care about their own future, if not for themselves, than for the children's
and young adults future.

The state is going to run the park for a while, get over it and find another problem that needs work. There sure is no shortage of those.

**Detroit Stylin** · February-21-14, 11:27 AM

Who would I get in contact with now since the Island is currently under state control to secure space for a large event next summer?

**bailey** · February-21-14, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

Who would I get in contact with now since the Island is currently under state control to secure space for a large event next summer?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Michigan+DNR+be...nt+reservation

**Honky Tonk** · February-21-14, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

Who would I get in contact with now since the Island is currently under state control to secure space for a large event next summer?

I would try here and ask. If they can't help you, I'll ask someone "in authority" next time I'm on the island.

https://www.detroitmi.gov/Department...ervations.aspx

**Honky Tonk** · February-24-14, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

Who would I get in contact with now since the Island is currently under state control to secure space for a large event next summer?

I ran into this today and thought about your question:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7...1534--,00.html

**Aluminum** · March-03-14, 07:52 PM

Over the years we have been regular visitors to the Conservatory and Aquarium. Since the State takeover, the attendance appears to be up at both these attractions. Before the takeover, we could visit the Conservatory on the weekend and be the only ones there. Now, the parking lot is full every time we go and there are a lot more people.

Significant pruning has occurred inside the Conservatory over the last three weeks. In the center palm house you can start to see across the room - a lot of clearing out of lower brush has happened. The tropical room is more open since a handful of banana trees have been removed [[there are still some left with banana's growing) and the lower branches of the citrus trees have been removed. The cactus and fern rooms also appear to have been tidied up. I wonder what else is in store for the conservatory and the exterior gardens....

As for the Aquarium, I am happy to see it come back to life, regardless of its size or rankings among its peers.

I do feel bitter sweet about the deal. It is nice to see additional care and attention paid to the island, and to some extent sharing/re-sharing the wonder with those who may not have felt they could visit for what ever their reason, but I do wonder if those who would normally come will still come, and if my secret garden is no longer secret.

**courtney** · March-07-14, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

The park isn't anywhere near as bad as the people who talk about it as some sort of danger-filled "no-go zone" would have you believe [[although I think a lot of those people haven't actually been to the island since 1967), but, like the rest of the city, it is definitely suffering badly and I do recognize the need for the state's help. But I would also be lying if I said that I wasn't somewhat resentful of having to now pay $11 to access a park I can see out of my father's window, a park that I've visited pretty much every week of my life that I've lived in Detroit, a park that my family has paid for through both our taxes and our Friends memberships, a park that has served as a haven and a respite for me and my fellow Detroiters [[and non-Detroiters) whether they were doing well or were broke as a joke.

I have to say the difference between Belle Isle between the time I first saw it on my first trip to Detroit in July of 1999 and the last time we visited [[August 2012) was depressing, to say the least. The last time we went, I was disgusted at the amount of trash everywhere and the overall condition of the whole island. It was pathetic trying to explain to our out of town guests that this "gem" we were showing them wasn't always in such a horrible condition.

I am willing to bet declining home values [[and that of every other property owner in the region) have saved you more than $11 a year in taxes. If it pains you that much to have a fee for BI, think of it as an $11 yearly increase on your tax bill.

And not directed at you, EastsideAl, or probably a large number of people on this forum, but I think the whole issue around BI and a pay pass that bothers me so much is that many of the SAME people who are complaining about the fee have done absolutely nothing to help BI.

I once had a "discussion" with a neighbor after mentioning how much trash we encountered on the island. They agreed that it was horrible and then, somewhat proudly, said that when they found the nearest trash can full, they dumped the remains of their picnic on the ground beside the trash can. I asked why they just didn't take the crap back home and dump it in their own trash can but since it "wasn't their job", they felt they'd done nothing wrong and it wasn't like they'd just dumped it on the side of the road.

If people didn't keep up this "not my job" mentality BS and everyone who went there did even a tiny bit to help [[be it taking out their own trash when they leave or doing like we did and collecting a few bags of trash which were taken home to throw away), maybe there wouldn't have been such a pressing need for it to become a state park with an entrance fee.

**erikd** · March-16-14, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

Isn't Belle Isle a large piece of land? Isn't it being leased to a government for free? Isn't the issue contentious? Doesn't it expand the state park territory? Are you going to tell me that I've misunderstood the definition of "land" and "government" next?

You must be crazy if you think Gov. Synder is going to take on something he thinks is going to lose him money.... He's a venture capitalist. He takes on entities that lose monies for others, reorganizes them and then makes them money creators for himself.

The city estimates the island gets 2 million cars a year, so yes, I think if the city charged they could make up the $6 million. I don't know where Kahn's 200k number comes from.

Belle Isle costs us money because we haven't charged for it like the State is doing. Don't tell me I own something that somebody else is using without paying for it. Would you let somebody live in your house for 30 years without paying rent in exchange for painting your basement?

And where did you get that I don't want other people living in Detroit besides black people? Of course Detroit's aim was never to be all black, white folks hightailed it out of here and separated themselves from Detroit, now you're claiming that black folk don't want to be around white people... are you serious?? There's clearly enough room in Detroit for everybody, but I'm tired of only this city getting screwed over by terrible deals and then being told "It's for your own good." When Kevyn Orr creates shitty deals that other people reject [[The water dept authority, the banks settlements) nobody says a word. But when he creates a shitty deal for Detroit the narrative is always "Take it you ungrateful bastards." You dummies fall for it every time.

What is this paranoia and fear of the state about?

All this talk of the state coming in and taking away things is crazy. You do realize that Detroit is actually part of the state of Michigan, right? The way you spin it, it sounds like some invading foreign army had come in and stolen the land away from Detroit to make it part of a different country.

The city still owns the park, we just set up a 30 year lease with the state to run it as a state park instead of a city park. It's not being sold off to condo developers or being turned over to a foreign country.

If you are so upset about the city "giving away" Belle Isle, are you also upset about the city giving away St. Aubin marina and adjacent riverfront property to the state in order to create Milliken State Park? Is that another example of a devious Lansing plan to screw over Detroit?

Get a grip. Detroit is not a sovereign nation, and the state government is not some kind of evil enemy hell bent on stealing things from the city.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · March-16-14, 12:25 PM

"Belle Isle costs us money because we haven't charged for it like the State is doing. Don't tell me I own something that somebody else is using without paying for it. Would you let somebody live in your house for 30 years without paying rent in exchange for painting your basement?"

Since Detroit is part of Michigan, its more like having your uncle move into your house for 30 years and agreeing to foot all of the expenses, while you continue to live there.

**Schoolcraft** · March-16-14, 07:31 PM

Guys, if you don't see the problem with the state taking land that doesn't belong to them through their self appointed city manager and then charging the citizens who "own" the land to get on the same land that they supposedly "own," it's going to take more than me to convince you. All you have to do is read the agreement.

It's great to spout off happy horse crap phrases like "Detroit is a part of Michigan," but the reality is Detroit isn't a part of Michigan when its time to collect income tax, Detroit isn't a part of Michigan when insurance needs to be reformed, Detroit isn't a part of Michigan when the EM law is repealed by the voters etc.

Again, if the state wanted to help they could have just as easily set up a booth for Detroit and charged a fee for each car entry with the proceeds going back to the city. They could have let the new Mayor work out a solution. Instead they forced this thing through because they wanted the island. This should have been last on the list of Kevyn Orr's priorities. My argument has been that the State can and will make money off of Belle Isle for their State park system, while Detroit's park system is suffering. Many people here disagree with that. We will see.