Let's talk about how the roads around here are PISS POOR, and an embarassment.

**Cliffy** · February-14-14, 11:06 PM

You know the roads are real bad when those right wing loons that post comments after articles are bitching about more spending for the roads.

It doesn't matter what city you're in, the roads are beyond horrible. I have never seen anything like this with full size craters everywhere. Whoever wants a tax refund check instead of fixing the roads is a moron.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-15-14, 12:25 AM

I'm shocked that Mark Schauer didn't come right out of the gate on how bad the roads are in his commercial. Everyone I run into that you have a catch up conversation with right now the condition of the roads comes up almost as fast as the winter weather. Bouncing down one of these destroyed roads in a car with a camera rolling about how the republicans won't fix them is something that everyone would relate to. Instead he rolls out the exact same talking points that didn't work last election. Its the roads IDIOT Polititions fix them! Tax the gas and diesel. Do it or we will find someone who will.

**Honky Tonk** · February-15-14, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

You know the roads are real bad when those right wing loons that post comments after articles are bitching about more spending for the roads.

It doesn't matter what city you're in, the roads are beyond horrible. I have never seen anything like this with full size craters everywhere. Whoever wants a tax refund check instead of fixing the roads is a moron.

And whoever advocates more taxation instead of finding out where all the supposedly "road repair" money is REALLY going, is a @$#%ing village idiot.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-15-14, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

And whoever advocates more taxation instead of finding out where all the supposedly "road repair" money is REALLY going, is a @$#%ing village idiot.

We are talking about Billions of dollars at the state level. If it was just laying around misappropriated wouldn't have 3 years of complete republican control been able to find it?

**rb336** · February-15-14, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

We are talking about Billions of dollars at the state level. If it was just laying around misappropriated wouldn't have 3 years of complete republican control been able to find it?

Why would they? Maybe they did, and funneled it to Snyder's cronies who redesigned the Michigan job bank into an unusable mess, into Snyder's blind funds, etc. etc.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-15-14, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

I'm shocked that Mark Schauer didn't come right out of the gate on how bad the roads are in his commercial. Everyone I run into that you have a catch up conversation with right now the condition of the roads comes up almost as fast as the winter weather. Bouncing down one of these destroyed roads in a car with a camera rolling about how the republicans won't fix them is something that everyone would relate to. Instead he rolls out the exact same talking points that didn't work last election. Its the roads IDIOT Polititions fix them! Tax the gas and diesel. Do it or we will find someone who will.

Schauer is running for governor. The current guv has had an infrastructure plan sitting there waiting for the house and senate to approve it. It is not the governor who is starving transportation. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...e_367113_7.pdf

**Honky Tonk** · February-15-14, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

We are talking about Billions of dollars at the state level. If it was just laying around misappropriated wouldn't have 3 years of complete republican control been able to find it?

I don't care WHO control's it. That has nothing to do with the fact that taxes are already being collected for a specific purpose, the issue isn't being addressed , and your solution is to tax people even more. Enough.

**Honky Tonk** · February-15-14, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Why would they? Maybe they did, and funneled it to Snyder's cronies who redesigned the Michigan job bank into an unusable mess, into Snyder's blind funds, etc. etc.

Have another hit.

**Cliffy** · February-15-14, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

And whoever advocates more taxation instead of finding out where all the supposedly "road repair" money is REALLY going, is a @$#%ing village idiot.

Seriously, enough with the right wing stupid talk. Our roads look like something from a 3rd world village and is destroying our vehicles and you think some pot of money is hidden somewhere. Get real. If you want your $40 rebate check then you're dumber than I thought. Stop living in the 1998 price world. You can't buy asphalt for $20 a ton anymore.

**Cliffy** · February-15-14, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I don't care WHO control's it. That has nothing to do with the fact that taxes are already being collected for a specific purpose, the issue isn't being addressed , and your solution is to tax people even more. Enough.

http://www.1990sflashback.com/1998/economy.asp

Median Household Income: $38,568.00 Cost of a gallon of regular gas: $1.06 Cost of a dozen eggs: $1.09 Cost of a gallon of Milk: $3.16
Nobody told this poor guy that its 2014.

**softailrider** · February-15-14, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.1990sflashback.com/1998/economy.asp

Median Household Income: $38,568.00 Cost of a gallon of regular gas: $1.06 Cost of a dozen eggs: $1.09 Cost of a gallon of Milk: $3.16
Nobody told this poor guy that its 2014.

Ummmm........ other then the gas everything seems pretty much the same.

**Honky Tonk** · February-15-14, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.1990sflashback.com/1998/economy.asp

Median Household Income: $38,568.00 Cost of a gallon of regular gas: $1.06 Cost of a dozen eggs: $1.09 Cost of a gallon of Milk: $3.16
Nobody told this poor guy that its 2014.

What's your point? "Things went up". Everyone knows that. Where are the stats on what the State takes in as far as road revenue yearly, and where is it being spent? How much are the people that are left in MI paying percentage wise in taxes? Are gas taxes based on percentage? In other words as everything, including gasoline, go up, do the gas taxes go up? I know what year it is "Cliffy".

**ABetterDetroit** · February-15-14, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Schauer is running for governor. The current guv has had an infrastructure plan sitting there waiting for the house and senate to approve it. It is not the governor who is starving transportation. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...e_367113_7.pdf

I am fully aware of that, but it doesn't change the fact that he hasn't accomplished his agenda on our terrible roads with his own party controlling everything.

Exactly how much FAIL to get it done do they think we will take? What's the excuse here? Oh,it is the "other" republicans, not our guy. Right. If that isn't a recipe to broom one party I don't know what is.

Just an observation, but I am getting a strong vibe that the majority of people are sick of political infighting resulting in inaction and it would be political suicide to claim that would be the problem within ONE party. Of course that point could be outside the fact that republicans are experts at commiting political suicide.

**Cliffy** · February-15-14, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

What's your point? "Things went up". Everyone knows that. Where are the stats on what the State takes in as far as road revenue yearly, and where is it being spent? How much are the people that are left in MI paying percentage wise in taxes? Are gas taxes based on percentage? In other words as everything, including gasoline, go up, do the gas taxes go up? I know what year it is "Cliffy".

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-roads-bridges

**Honky Tonk** · February-16-14, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-roads-bridges

The article says MI SPENDS less then anyone. It doesn't say what it takes in for roads, or where or how the money is being allocated. More investigative journalism. Asking "Mom" for money, in an already overtaxed, dysfunctional, State is not a solution.

**Cliffy** · February-16-14, 10:36 AM

You don't even need to raise taxes. That pig Snyder already did it for us. Just divert that "surplus" to roads and be done with it. I don't need a .1 percent tax refund. My car is getting trashed everyday.

P.S. Its not that hard to use google. MDOT has pages on their website that breaks everything down.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-16-14, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

What's your point? "Things went up". Everyone knows that. Where are the stats on what the State takes in as far as road revenue yearly, and where is it being spent? How much are the people that are left in MI paying percentage wise in taxes? Are gas taxes based on percentage? In other words as everything, including gasoline, go up, do the gas taxes go up? I know what year it is "Cliffy".

Thats is what you don't understand. The gas tax remains the same as it was prior to 1998. What has really gone up is the sales tax. Yes you pay several taxes on each gallon of gas you buy. There is a 19 cent per gallon state tax that has not been raised since the mid-1990's [[that goes to fund transportation including roads, transit, and bikes) as well as a six percent sales tax that goes to the State general fund and school fund.

Fast forward 20 years. You have much higher gas prices so people drive less. You have fewer people who can afford a vehicle of their own who drive less and use public transportation or bikes more. You also have an older population and a higher unemployment rate which means less are driving to work. Those that still can afford a car are opting for smaller more fuel efficient vehicles which use less gallons. This all translates into less revenue for the transportation system. Add to this 20 years of inflation and few options in the State constitution for the local level to raise revenues by other means. Why do you think roads and transit are so $h!tty around here?

If this isn't bad enough, both Engler and Granholm administrations had huge bonding programs. We are essentially paying for them now. Act 51 [[the gas tax law) takes this right off the top.

At the federal level, the transportation funding mechanism is even in worse shape. This has lead to huge deficits in transit and highway funding and much less funding. Programs that fund things like new transit systems are now gone [[pork). Don't be looking for Uncle Sugar to come bail us out. He is too busy rebuilding roads he destroyed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

**Honky Tonk** · February-16-14, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

You don't even need to raise taxes. That pig Snyder already did it for us. Just divert that "surplus" to roads and be done with it. I don't need a .1 percent tax refund. My car is getting trashed everyday.

P.S. Its not that hard to use google. MDOT has pages on their website that breaks everything down.

Thanx, Cliffy. Now I know what year it is AND how to use Google. This is from the "other" thread on transit and road repair. [[http://www.detroityes.com/mb/forumdi...iscuss-Detroit, I Googled it in 2014, by the way) "In '97 or so John Engler crafted a user fee on top of the 1964 tax, that fee more than doubled the amt of money collected but it didn't change the original edict that all the proceeds must be used to build and maintain roads." So. MY question's this: how much money is being collected "to build and maintain roads", and where is it going? And you're right, IF there is a surplus, and it should be allocated towards infrastructure repair. Raising taxes in a State that's loosing population daily doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

**Richard** · February-16-14, 11:06 AM

Canada is to pay up to $550 million to cover Michigan's expense on the bridge, which will then allow the state to get up to $2 billion in U.S. federal matching funds.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85E18X20120615

There you go,just sit back and relax until the check clears.

**Honky Tonk** · February-16-14, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Canada is to pay up to $550 million to cover Michigan's expense on the bridge, which will then allow the state to get up to $2 billion in U.S. federal matching funds.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85E18X20120615

There you go,just sit back and relax until the check clears.

Is that in CA funds????

**Richard** · February-16-14, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Is that in CA funds????

Nope,that would be in renminbi,or Yaun.

http://www.chinability.com/renminbiconverter.htm to convert into dollars.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-16-14, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Thats is what you don't understand. The gas tax remains the same as it was prior to 1998. What has really gone up is the sales tax. Yes you pay several taxes on each gallon of gas you buy. There is a 19 cent per gallon state tax that has not been raised since the mid-1990's [[that goes to fund transportation including roads, transit, and bikes) as well as a six percent sales tax that goes to the State general fund and school fund.

Fast forward 20 years. You have much higher gas prices so people drive less. You have fewer people who can afford a vehicle of their own who drive less and use public transportation or bikes more. You also have an older population and a higher unemployment rate which means less are driving to work. Those that still can afford a car are opting for smaller more fuel efficient vehicles which use less gallons. This all translates into less revenue for the transportation system. Add to this 20 years of inflation and few options in the State constitution for the local level to raise revenues by other means. Why do you think roads and transit are so $h!tty around here? .

Exactly!

I have bent 4 [[original stock) rims on the car I have now in 3 years. It costs me $200 to $300 each for used replacements. 10 cents to 25 cents a gallon would be just a few bucks a tankful, well worth it to not have the aggravation of those bent rims alone.

**Cliffy** · February-16-14, 02:56 PM

Just wait another week or so when we get our thaw this week. The roads will be even worse. Levy a 1% sales tax and just give it to infrastructure on top of .25 cents a gallon. We keep kicking the can down the road and compromising our safety. Say no to the election year rebate check bullshit and fix our roads and bridges.

**iheartthed** · February-17-14, 07:03 AM

I thought about this thread as I drove out to Long Island yesterday. Some of the potholes were so bad that they brought traffic to a near stop on the LIE.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-17-14, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Just wait another week or so when we get our thaw this week. The roads will be even worse. Levy a 1% sales tax and just give it to infrastructure on top of .25 cents a gallon. We keep kicking the can down the road and compromising our safety. Say no to the election year rebate check bullshit and fix our roads and bridges.

That's your boy "Snidely Whiplash" Snyder for ya. Looking for new ways to pass the buck on to seniors and low to middle class taxpayers for the sake of pleasing business and his "rich" GOP supporters. Looks like we're gonna be stuck with this guy for another 4 years, since there isn't a viable candidate out here to dethrone him.