Curbed: GPP doesn't want Detroit

[jt1]

Well, I'm one of them, as are my neighbors, and we like all those things.

Yeeeah, right. You and your neighbors live in Detroit so you are all one monolithic entity that likes guns, drugs, drive cadillacs while collecting welfare and letting your property go into disrepair.

You're not gonna fool people with your fancy words

[TKshreve]

Wasn't this thread about a snow mound keeping Detroiter's out of GPP? Or is it now black people?

[jt1]

Wasn't this thread about a snow mound keeping Detroiter's out of GPP? Or is it now black people?

You tell me. How can you tell that there aren't Detroiters at the coffee shops or yoga places. There has to be some way you can tell where people live.

If not color, how? SOrry, you brought it on yourself with your statements indicating that you don't see Detroiters at certain places. Last I checked, we weren't forced to wear any specific identifiers.

[EastsideAl]

Sorry to sound so pompous

If you're so sorry to sound that way, why the hell do you go right ahead and do so for several paragraphs? Could you possibly be any more so the picture of the pompous, insular, classist, and outsider-hating Grosse Pointer? Are you sure you're not really a work of satire?

Views like yours are exactly what I'm talking about. You are seemingly willfully blind to just how much traffic GP businesses gets from Detroit residents. I just wonder if the people who actually run the local businesses are that blind too? Other than the yoga studio, I and members of my family have patronized every business you mention, and many more beyond those, for decades.

The next time you're in the Village, just walk around and actually pay attention how many "Detroiters" you see there. Now, wrap your little head around the fact that some of the people you see who seem to you to obviously be non-Detroiters, are, in fact, actually from Detroit! Detroiters may not be a majority of GP business patrons, but we do make up a substantial percentage. Where else outside of your little world do you think GP shoppers going to come from? Warren? Birmingham?

And, yes, I will go to my local Spartan store, the Indian Village Market, or to Harbortown Market, or Whole Foods, or any number of other places including the Eastern Market, rather than go to Kroger's in GP. And I will go to the little coffee shops and bar-restaurants much better than Red Crown that we, believe it or not, have here in the city, rather than go to a town that actually sees it as a civic mission to build a wall against me. And I know lots of people around here who feel the same way.

Fortunately, I also know that there are a lot of sensible Grosse Pointers who realize that you don't fix anything by building walls. And particularly not by building walls against your customers and potential customers. Thinking people who realize that 99++% of the people who come driving across Alter or Mack are not coming for nefarious purposes, but to shop, eat, drink, and spend money. I sure hope they win, because I think that losing to the wall builders and dividers is, in the end, going to hurt everybody a lot more than it's going to help anyone.

[TKshreve]

Really classy.

I'm sure you're confusing the word "classy" with "honest"

First of all, how would you know? Last I checked, Mt. Clemens was neither Detroit, nor Grosse Pointe, nor anywhere near there.

I know far more about the city of GPP and its retail shops then most people here. But please indulge us with your resume and expertise.

Secondly, the eastside of Detroit is massive, and largely devoid of quality retail.

No shit. And as I have stated...... time and again...... Detroiters are more than welcome to patronize the local businesses in our city. When I hear crying about how a 2.5 block detour is racist, my Bull Shit light starts to flicker. And furthermore, when people who decry this barrier as the canary in the coal mine of blight to come for Pointes....... well it just glows a little brighter.

The barrier is being planned [[and executed) to aid the growing entertainment district that is being introduced into the Park. It will prevent some kind of dragway along a corridor that plans to have multiple restaurants and bars, amongst other concepts that do not and have not thrived across the city border on the east side. A lot of money is being injected into this project. That same money will assist with getting this barrier through city council and any other bureaucratic hurdles that may stand in the way. Embrace it.

[EastsideAl]

The barrier is being planned [[and executed) to aid the growing entertainment district that is being introduced into the Park.

Now my BS meter is going off full blast.

Believe me when I tell you that this is sure as hell not what it looks like from this side of the snow berm. And you are being willfully ignorant, or worse, if you don't understand that.

[jt1]

Now my BS meter is going off full blast.

Believe me when I tell you that this is sure as hell not what it looks like from this side of the snow berm. And you are being willfully ignorant, or worse, if you don't understand that.

It's good they used snow. That way, any 'Detroiters' trying to get over it will stick out really well.

[Scottathew]

Shutting off Kercheval will inevitably lower traffic flow, and, almost as importantly, will send a needless message of hostility to potential customers.

This is a valid argument to keeping Kerchival open at the border. Hopefully GPP has carefully weighed the positives and negatives before they fully execute on this plan.

[jt1]

This is a valid argument to keeping Kerchival open at the border. Hopefully GPP has carefully weighed the positives and negatives before they fully execute on this plan.

The problem is perception of a positive and a negative. Those perceptions don't always align with reality and some people will refuse to believe anything except their perception.

[TKshreve]

Now my BS meter is going off full blast.

Believe me when I tell you that this is sure as hell not what it looks like from this side of the snow berm. And you are being willfully ignorant, or worse, if you don't understand that.

A plan to turn the strip along Kercheval Avenue in Grosse Pointe Park -- which already has a number of restaurants and bars -- into an entertainment district contains an element that is bound to be controversial: Cutting off car traffic from Detroit.

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...5#.UvP3l7RTaq0

GROSSE POINTE PARK - Don't be surprised if Grosse Pointe Park's downtown business district on Kercheval Avenue becomes the new hip area in Metro Detroit.

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...pointe_pa.html

New Plans for Grosse Pointe Park Entertainment District - The Craig Fahle Show [[1-24-13)

https://soundcloud.com/wdet/new-plans-for-grosse-pointe


Better check your BS meter.

[jt1]

You are speaking about plans, not something that is being developed. Al is talking about the snow barrier.

I don't believe the Cotton Family plans call for a permanent snow barrier.

Again, it is all about perception. From my perception, blocking a road with snow is not part of the entertainment district plan. It is a plan to close off access to Detroiters before the work on the plan begins.

Surely you can't be this dense? Also, I am still anxiously awaiting your explanation how you identify Detroiters that are in Grosse Pointe Or how you specifically know that the people in the stores aren't Detroiters?

[jt1]

Also, since you are trumpeting this plan by the Cottons, can you list the other successful entertainment districts in the area that closed off access to it by building a wall/barrier.

I'm really trying to think of one but can't. I'm sure that you can help me by identifying all of the times this approach has been successful.

[EastsideAl]

Better check your BS meter.

I know all about those plans. That's part of what I'm objecting to. And if you really don't understand why those of us on this side of your blockade [[whether it be made out of snow, rocks, or office building) would be offended by this barrier you so proudly tout, then you really are even more ignorant than you sound, and know little or nothing about the history of this part of the Detroit area, the region as a whole, or the USA in general.

But I don't think this is the case. I think you, and the others in favor of barrier building, know perfectly damn well what you're doing, and just who you intend to make unwelcome in the hip, happening Grosse Pointe Park of your dreams. But I also think that, in your haste to try to keep the "wrong" sort of people out of your little happy zone, you don't realize the damage you're actually going to do.

On a side note, I also have to love the irony of a family who made their money skimming off of Medicaid building what is essentially a wall to keep "those" people out of their neighborhood.

[TKshreve]

Originally Posted by TKshreve

The barrier is being planned [[and executed) to aid the growing entertainment district that is being introduced into the Park.

Now my BS meter is going off full blast.

Believe me when I tell you that this is sure as hell not what it looks like from this side of the snow berm. And you are being willfully ignorant, or worse, if you don't understand that.

I know all about those plans.

You can't make this shit up.

[jt1]

You can't make this shit up.

It truly is hard to believe that you are having such a difficult time following a simple discussion. Carry on and let us know if you see any Detroiters and what they look like.

[downtownguy]

Can you just be clear and not use the term 'Detroiter' to describe black people. Based upon your post, somehow you can identify 'Detroiters' just by walking around and looking at people. Is it color, certain behaviors, do we all have a tattoo that we are unaware of?

Exact same reaction I had.

[poobert]

I'm really trying to think of one but can't. I'm sure that you can help me by identifying all of the times this approach has been successful.

I dunno, man, I was at Harvard Square hitting up the bars and they just dumped a giant pile of snow in the middle of the road, you know, to make it a better entertainment district, and it was wicked awesome. You couldn't get around it, had to drive all the way out of your way to get past it, it was really entertaining. GP is well on its way to becoming a world-class nightlife destination.

Who is this TKshrek guy anyway? Can we vote him off the island? He is about as fun as ground glass in goulash. I'm sure he'll be a big hit in the entertainment district.

[Goose]

so blocking the street for car traffic is now a "barrier" that does not allow residents from Detroit to enter Grosse Pointe?? so I assume there will also be barbed wire and check points, for residency identification [[do you have your papers??).... if the "entertainment" area is to be located right at that area, why then can't Detroit residents park on the Detroit side of the "barrier" and walk over [[don't answer, I already know why).... OR... drive up two blocks and come in on Kercheval from the other direction.....

[jt1]

I dunno, man, I was at Harvard Square hitting up the bars and they just dumped a giant pile of snow in the middle of the road, you know, to make it a better entertainment district, and it was wicked awesome. You couldn't get around it, had to drive all the way out of your way to get past it, it was really entertaining. GP is well on its way to becoming a world-class nightlife destination.

Who is this TKshrek guy anyway? Can we vote him off the island? He is about as fun as ground glass in goulash. I'm sure he'll be a big hit in the entertainment district.

The unfortunate thing is that it looks like it could be a decent district if it weren't for a silly wall closing it off.

I think TK is just a little frustrated because it is too cold to wear boat shoes with no socks.

[jt1]

so blocking the street for car traffic is now a "barrier" that does not allow residents from Detroit to enter Grosse Pointe?? so I assume there will also be barbed wire and check points, for residency identification [[do you have your papers??).... if the "entertainment" area is to be located right at that area, why then can't Detroit residents park on the Detroit side of the "barrier" and walk over [[don't answer, I already know why).... OR... drive up two blocks and come in on Kercheval from the other direction.....

It's not that people can't get there, it is that the developers are being very clear that they don't want people getting there.

The argument of dangerous traffic is also complete non-sense. Does GPP have any traffic studies? How is it that Main street is RO isn't littered with dead bodies in the street from the traffic.

They could at least be honest about the reasons for the wall. Citing too much traffic and an overabundance of hoot traffic from new bars and restaurants is an insulting lie.

[Dan Wesson]

They could at least be honest about the reasons for the wall. Citing too much traffic and an overabundance of hoot traffic from new bars and restaurants is an insulting lie.

+1

They should grow some balls declare their intentions and take the heat.

[Goose]

you fail to show how this barrier is going to stop detroiters from entering GPP, it will stop cars from coming down kercheval but you are asserting that by merely putting up a blockade on the street, that all detroiters will no longer be able to access GP, and that is their intention...

reminds me of the "carnival personal only" scene from The Jerk.... I can see it now, two Detroiters walking down Kercheval, they both see at the "barrier" but one Detroiter keeps walking, with the other shouting "you can't go in there, you're not a GP'er... can't you see the barrier".........

[jt1]

Nobody is saying that it prevents detroityes from going there but the message is crystal clear. There are biker bars I could technically enter but it is clear I am not wanted.

To not understand that is naive. To frame it in absolutes as far as it not physically preventing people from entering gp is absurd. The message is crystal clear.

[Hermod]

How is it that Main street is RO isn't littered with dead bodies in the street from the traffic.

Because most of the traffic is on Woodward?

[EastsideAl]

You can't make this shit up.

It's pretty difficult for me to believe too.