Curbed: GPP doesn't want Detroit

[mwilbert]

Upwardly mobile blacks followed Jews outward.

That would be my view. Blacks have been following Jews northwest for many decades. On the other hand, fifty years ago neither was much desired in GP. All kinds of things have changed since then, but settlement patterns don't change quickly.

[TKshreve]

That would be my view. Blacks have been following Jews northwest for many decades. On the other hand, fifty years ago neither was much desired in GP. All kinds of things have changed since then, but settlement patterns don't change quickly.

That's a pretty fair assessment. I would add that the bursting of housing bubble in 2008-09 allowed this change to accelerate. And in all areas.

[iheartthed]

All kinds of things have changed since then, but settlement patterns don't change quickly.

That was my point. I doubt GPP of today would be as hostile to blacks or Jews as it was 40 years ago, but the damage was already done. Blacks and Jews tend to avoid it even when they can afford it. Same goes for Dearborn, which is only 4% black. Why do black people apparently avoid Dearborn while similarly working class Redford Township is nearly 30% black?

[Bham1982]

That was my point. I doubt GPP of today would be as hostile to blacks or Jews as it was 40 years ago, but the damage was already done. Blacks and Jews tend to avoid it even when they can afford it. Same goes for Dearborn, which is only 4% black. Why do black people apparently avoid Dearborn while similarly working class Redford Township is nearly 30% black?

Because the Arab population has East Dearborn on lockdown. It's totally dominated by a single demographic. Redford has lots of empty houses and room for expansion.

[iheartthed]

Because the Arab population has East Dearborn on lockdown. It's totally dominated by a single demographic. Redford has lots of empty houses and room for expansion.

No, it's because Dearborn has a very racist history. I know some black people who still don't even like to drive through Dearborn because of its past.

[Bham1982]

No, it's because Dearborn has a very racist history. I know some black people who still don't even like to drive through Dearborn because of its past.

I think that plays a role, but not a big one. Dearborn retail has huge black shopper demographic, parts of Dearborn not dominated by Middle Eastern presence have a very fast growing black residential and school demographic. Places like South Warren and Eastpointe, with similar intolerant reputations but no anchored ethnic group are going majority black in a relatively short time

[Scottathew]

I used to live in Warren and my experience there were that some [[but not all) of the older neighbors were racist. Nearly all of the younger folks had no race issues. I lived on a very diverse street south of 10 Mile.

There were a few black families on the street and the rest where white families and Bengali families [[maybe like 30% Bengali). One man in his 50's noted to me that he didn't like "the blacks" that were renting the house across the street. Another much older man noted to me that a lot of "negros" were moving in. I told both of them that I didn't really care as long as they were friendly and mowed their lawn.

The rest of the folks I spoke with had no reservations about minorities because they either hated racism or they were a minority.

The housing meltdown will cause the whole region to blend. Some areas more than others.

I live in Rochester Hills now and my neighborhood is much more diverse than I thought it would be. The nice thing is that, pardon my French, nobody here gives a f--k about your race or color, at least no one that I've spoken too.

[Novine]

"That's not how suburbanites feel about Detroit. We want Detroit to recover. We want to see the urban prairies filled with new houses and middle class families. We want good things for Detroit. However, when ever someone from the outside tries to help they're accused of trying to steal Detroit's gems and are treated as unwanted."

You wouldn't know it by the commenters on the various newspaper sites who suggest bulldozing the city.

[GUSHI]

Because middle class and upper class people of all color wanna get away from the hod.

This still does not answer why Farmington Hills has a higher percentage of black people than Grosse Pointe Park. There are relatively affluent Detroit neighborhoods that are in close proximity to Grosse Pointe. But for some reason, middle class black families largely leapfrogged settling in the Pointes. Again, I'm sure it has a lot to do with the history of GP and not because Farmington Hills is closer to Southfield. Looking further north and west West Bloomfield has a similar percentage of black residents as GPP, although a much higher count of actual black residents due to its larger population. West Bloomfield doesn't border Southfield and is pretty far from Detroit. There are no traditional "black" cities in close proximity. So why do more black families choose to live there than GPP, which borders the blackest major city in America?

[ABetterDetroit]

In the real world, Detroit is a huge drag on basically everything in the Pointes. The reason the Pointes are more affordable than crappier suburbs is only because of proximity to horrible areas in Detroit.

Cmon, next your going to tell me all those incomes in the pointes are earned right there in those municipalities right? Autonomous burbs could go it alone, never want or need to cross a border, be better off alone on island in the middle of the ocean....

[Scottathew]

You wouldn't know it by the commenters on the various newspaper sites who suggest bulldozing the city.

The Internet is a crazy place. Just as we shouldn't judge Detroiters by Cushingberries, Shabazzes, MonCons, and Kilpatricks that are prominent in the media suburbanites deserve the same.

I do agree that its very frustrating to read some of those comments. That's why I keep those comments out of my circle of concern [[http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/...le-of-control/).

[Scottathew]

Cmon, next your going to tell me all those incomes in the pointes are earned right there in those municipalities right? Autonomous burbs could go it alone, never want or need to cross a border, be better off alone on island in the middle of the ocean....

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that the suburbs are autonomous. Many folks, myself included, commute into Detroit and depend Detroit jobs.

The goal of sealing off Kerchival is not autonomy. In many communities in the suburbs different types of land use are separated. Industrial zones don't have residential streets running through them.

This section of Detroit is no longer residential, it's urban prairie. Many of the remaining houses attract squaters and crime. There's a reason why people in Detroit want neighborhoods like this gone, and there's a reason why Grosse Pointe Park wants to be separated from it. We can blame it all on racism, or we can actually work on addressing the issue that causes GPPers and Detroiters alike to not want to live near it.

[ABetterDetroit]

This section of Detroit is no longer residential, it's urban prairie. Many of the remaining houses attract squaters and crime. There's a reason why people in Detroit want neighborhoods like this gone, and there's a reason why Grosse Pointe Park wants to be separated from it. We can blame it all on racism, or we can actually work on addressing the issue that causes GPPers and Detroiters alike to not want to live near it.

In my original reply I said that "good fences make good neighbors" that part wasn't quoted.

[warsaw7]

Do any of you "GP haters" ACTUALLY go into GP? If so, do you just drive through, or get out of your cars and go into the retail shops? Maybe we're talking about two different GP's, like on the old Star Trek series, you know, parallel universes and such. Because when I go there, "I see Black People". They live there, they hang out there, they're employed there. They seem to get along with the "White People". The difference is, GP is a safer enviornment then Detroit, and businesses actually stay open later. Street lights are on. It feels warm and fuzzy. I could be wrong, though. Maybe all the "White People", in the wee hours of the night, put on white sheets and hoods, and dance around caldrons? Perhaps some actual "White" GP residents could shed light on this ancient ritual?

Nailed it!!!

[Novine]

This is the story I recalled but I know there are instances of the Pointes purchasing property within Detroit city limits too. Who's the slum lord? Apparently, the head of the city's planning commission. How's that for irony?

http://www.freep.com/article/2013040...ls-from-public

[Novine]

An article on the same topic talks about GPP purchasing properties in Detroit to demolish them. All financed with voter approval although questions arose whether the actions were done in public view.

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Arti...in-secret.html

[Dan Wesson]

An article on the same topic talks about GPP purchasing properties in Detroit to demolish them. All financed with voter approval although questions arose whether the actions were done in public view.

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Arti...in-secret.html

I heard they were going to extend and widen the Fox Canal
and make a no mans land on the banks.

<sarc off>

[EastsideAl]

I heard they were going to extend and widen the Fox Canal
and make a no mans land on the banks.

<sarc off>

<sarc still off> Why not? They already closed the bridge off.

[EastsideAl]

While I understand the concern of people in GPP, I think this move is as likely to backfire economically as to create any real added degree of safety for them. As Honky Tonk correctly notes, a lot of us Detroiters, of all races, shop regularly in GP stores. We are a significant portion of their customer base. But given the blunt nastiness with which this decision has been implemented [[plowing snow into a wall? really?), I wonder if they actually realize how much of a portion we are.

Shutting off Kercheval will inevitably lower traffic flow, and, almost as importantly, will send a needless message of hostility to potential customers. I know that some of the businesses in the Park, immediately adjacent to Detroit, are the biggest advocates of this plan. But they are the most likely of all to be hurt by the reduced flow of traffic past their stores, since their businesses will be the ones directly behind the barrier. They are essentially buying a most likely false sense of security and isolation at the expense of their own business traffic. I think, sadly, the likely result will be exactly the opposite of what they envision, and we will see more empty stores in GPP in the coming years.

Given the highly likely reduction in traffic, and the hostile message sent to a vital segment of their customer base, I have to wonder how the merchants down in the Village and the Hill are greeting this ill-thought-out plan. For my part, I know I am a lot less likely to go to a place that makes it more, not less, inconvenient to go there, and so clearly sends a message that your kind isn't wanted around here.

[TKshreve]

double post

[TKshreve]

While I understand the concern of people in GPP, I think this move is as likely to backfire economically as to create any real added degree of safety for them. As Honky Tonk correctly notes, a lot of us Detroiters, of all races, shop regularly in GP stores. We are a significant portion of their customer base. But given the blunt nastiness with which this decision has been implemented [[plowing snow into a wall? really?), I wonder if they actually realize how much of a portion we are.

Shutting off Kercheval will inevitably lower traffic flow, and, almost as importantly, will send a needless message of hostility to potential customers. I know that some of the businesses in the Park, immediately adjacent to Detroit, are the biggest advocates of this plan. But they are the most likely of all to be hurt by the reduced flow of traffic past their stores, since their businesses will be the ones directly behind the barrier. They are essentially buying a most likely false sense of security and isolation at the expense of their own business traffic. I think, sadly, the likely result will be exactly the opposite of what they envision, and we will see more empty stores in GPP in the coming years.

Given the highly likely reduction in traffic, and the hostile message sent to a vital segment of their customer base, I have to wonder how the merchants down in the Village and the Hill are greeting this ill-thought-out plan. For my part, I know I am a lot less likely to go to a place that makes it more, not less, inconvenient to go there, and so clearly sends a message that your kind isn't wanted around here.

Sorry to sound so pompous, but 95% of your post is pure drivel. Sooooo, far east side detroiters are going to hit their local Spartan store out of protest and skip the Kroger in the village. Laughable.

I guess they're not going to frequent the little coffee shop on Kercheval either. Oh wait, they never did. Should we keep a couple tables open at Red Crown for them? How about we keep the Yoga studio open a few hours longer every day....... just in case.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the biggest business from the other side of Alter was given to Art's Liquor store. Outside of Kroger, I don't often see very many Detroiter's patronizing the local businesses in GPP. I may be overlooking one or two staple businesses, but by leaps and bounds GPP is not a destination for the east-side city folk.

By the way, Kercheval in the Park is growing at a rapid pace currently. There is an influx of businesses right now being spurred by massive investment. I highly doubt "we will see more empty stores in GPP in the coming years."

[jt1]

Sorry to sound so pompous, but 95% of your post is pure drivel. Sooooo, far east side detroiters are going to hit their local Spartan store out of protest and skip the Kroger in the village. Laughable.

I guess they're not going to frequent the little coffee shop on Kercheval either. Oh wait, they never did. Should we keep a couple tables open at Red Crown for them? How about we keep the Yoga studio open a few hours longer every day....... just in case.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the biggest business from the other side of Alter was given to Art's Liquor store. Outside of Kroger, I don't often see very many Detroiter's patronizing the local businesses in GPP. I may be overlooking one or two staple businesses, but by leaps and bounds GPP is not a destination for the east-side city folk.

By the way, Kercheval in the Park is growing at a rapid pace currently. There is an influx of businesses right now being spurred by massive investment. I highly doubt "we will see more empty stores in GPP in the coming years."

Can you just be clear and not use the term 'Detroiter' to describe black people. Based upon your post, somehow you can identify 'Detroiters' just by walking around and looking at people. Is it color, certain behaviors, do we all have a tattoo that we are unaware of?

[ABetterDetroit]

Is it color, certain behaviors, do we all have a tattoo that we are unaware of?

There's tattoos? well damn that explains everything, I thought it was just that I didn't hate on anyone before I met them.

[poobert]

Sorry to sound so pompous, but 95% of your post is pure drivel. Sooooo, far east side detroiters are going to hit their local Spartan store out of protest and skip the Kroger in the village. Laughable.

I guess they're not going to frequent the little coffee shop on Kercheval either. Oh wait, they never did. Should we keep a couple tables open at Red Crown for them? How about we keep the Yoga studio open a few hours longer every day....... just in case.

Really classy.

First of all, how would you know? Last I checked, Mt. Clemens was neither Detroit, nor Grosse Pointe, nor anywhere near there.

Secondly, the eastside of Detroit is massive, and largely devoid of quality retail.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013110...ncil-districts
Council District 4, nearly all of which is a stone's throw of Grosse Pointe, has nearly 100,000 residents.

Of course, according to your wildly insulting insinuations, all those 100,000 are poor savages, who could not possibly appreciate yoga, Kroger, a coffee shop, or a new restaurant.

Well, I'm one of them, as are my neighbors, and we like all those things.

[jt1]

Really classy.

First of all, how would you know? Last I checked, Mt. Clemens was neither Detroit, nor Grosse Pointe, nor anywhere near there.

Secondly, the eastside of Detroit is massive, and largely devoid of quality retail.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013110...ncil-districts
Council District 4, nearly all of which is a stone's throw of Grosse Pointe, has nearly 100,000 residents.

Of course, according to your wildly insulting insinuations, all those 100,000 are poor savages, who could not possibly appreciate yoga, Kroger, a coffee shop, or a new restaurant.

Well, I'm one of them, as are my neighbors, and we like all those things.

When responding to TKshreve, he will likely think that using the terms Detroiters, poor and savages is extremely redundant.