Curbed: GPP doesn't want Detroit

[Bham1982]

^^^That, and also there's a difference between blocking off a street or two or three WITHIN a community to deter real crime problems and blocking off streets that restrict access from neighboring communities because of perceived fears of crime.

So the East Side of Detroit has only "perceived fears of crime", while the Palmer Woods area, probably the safest residential area in Detroit, has "real crime problems". LOL.

Let's be honest. If black snobs in the city limits block access to thugs, no problem; if [[probably less wealthy) white suburbanites try the same, it's Apartheid Part Deux.

[professorscott]

I'm kind of bothered by this whole thread, the very idea that anyone would be the least bit surprised that the good people of GPP would make an effort to keep Detroiters out of their sacred little place. Next thing you know, someone is going to tell me that water is wet and the Pope is Catholic! Egad!

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

So the East Side of Detroit has only "perceived fears of crime", while the Palmer Woods area, probably the safest residential area in Detroit, has "real crime problems". LOL.

Let's be honest. If black snobs in the city limits block access to thugs, no problem; if [[probably less wealthy) white suburbanites try the same, it's Apartheid Part Deux.

awesome observation Bham, I lived in the patch for 3 years from roughly 88-91, I was on Maryland just off of St Paul. We were basically a piggy bank for those who wished to walk the few blocks into the park and take what they could get from us rich [[ha ha) workin stiffs...I was actually robbed at gun point in 91 right in front of my house by a young detroit lad who thought what was mine was his, that said The wall, if built is not going to deter those who come to the Park for nefarious reasons. Also I would say that most Detroiters who come into GPP to shop do most of their shopping in the Village as apposed to btwn Alter and Nottingham except for maybe the Party store on Wayburn.

[Honky Tonk]

I'm kind of bothered by this whole thread, the very idea that anyone would be the least bit surprised that the good people of GPP would make an effort to keep Detroiters out of their sacred little place. Next thing you know, someone is going to tell me that water is wet and the Pope is Catholic! Egad!

Nice spin, Professor. Next try Reality World.

[Honky Tonk]

That's not how suburbanites feel about Detroit. We want Detroit to recover. We want to see the urban prairies filled with new houses and middle class families. We want good things for Detroit. However, when ever someone from the outside tries to help they're accused of trying to steal Detroit's gems and are treated as unwanted.

Outsiders can only change so much in Detroit. At some point the excuses have to stop and Detroit needs to change Detroit. Folks will help along the way, but the main driving force needs to come from within.

Until Detroit is fixed you'll see communities doing what they need to do to protect their residents and their interests.

It's easy to demonize suburban cities that want to protect themselves from Detroit. It's much harder to actually address the problem and fix Detroit.

Amen.........

[sumas]

I'm kind of bothered by this whole thread, the very idea that anyone would be the least bit surprised that the good people of GPP would make an effort to keep Detroiters out of their sacred little place. Next thing you know, someone is going to tell me that water is wet and the Pope is Catholic! Egad!

AHH! You forgot the rest of the quote, "Is the Pope Catholic, does a bear shit is the woods".

Lived in GPP for a time due to school issues, they bother me less than the rest of the Pointes. Are they racist??? Hell yes. They like Blacks only slightly more/less than renters.

As renters, we painted the house inside/out, fixed very bad plumbing /electricals, re-did landscaped and knew our neighbors. Sucks... but would help with meds, eyedrops for seniors who had surgery etc.

GPP hates renters too.

[Hermod]

AHH! You forgot the rest of the quote, "Is the Pope Catholic, does a bear shit is the woods".

Does a hobby horse have a hickory dick?

[Honky Tonk]

AHH! You forgot the rest of the quote, "Is the Pope Catholic, does a bear shit is the woods".

Lived in GPP for a time due to school issues, they bother me less than the rest of the Pointes. Are they racist??? Hell yes. They like Blacks only slightly more/less than renters.

As renters, we painted the house inside/out, fixed very bad plumbing /electricals, re-did landscaped and knew our neighbors. Sucks... but would help with meds, eyedrops for seniors who had surgery etc.

GPP hates renters too.

When was this, Sumas, in the 50's? Maybe you should grab the old man and go get a cup of coffee @ Fourbucks, and watch out the window to see what kind of people actually live there.

[bailey]

When was this, Sumas, in the 50's? Maybe you should grab the old man and go get a cup of coffee @ Fourbucks, and watch out the window to see what kind of people actually live there.

racist generalizations are only verboten when made ABOUT Detroiters...when made BY Detroiters it's just a statement of common knowledge.

[poobert]

racist generalizations are only verboten when made ABOUT Detroiters...when made BY Detroiters it's just a statement of common knowledge.

Wait, what did she say that was racist? Is Grosse Pointer a race now?

She's speaking from her experience that she encountered racism and classicism when she lived in Grosse Pointe. Are you saying this is untrue? That she is lying?

[bailey]

She's speaking from her experience that she encountered racism and classicism when she lived in Grosse Pointe. Are you saying this is untrue? That she is lying?

I'm speaking from mine as resident ... her experiences are not the norm, or at all reflect the current attitudes of GP. Shall I paint every detroiter as a crack head thief or grifter because I had my car broken into or because Cushingberry is on the city council? She had a crappy land lord and is painting an entire community with her experience with a crappy landlord. Crappy land lords are problem the world over. Want them to not be in business? stop enabling them by renting from them. GPP will thank you for it.

[TKshreve]

EASTSIDE CAT 67-83
Also I would say that most Detroiters who come into GPP to shop do most of their shopping in the Village as apposed to btwn Alter and Nottingham except for maybe the Party store on Wayburn.

Actually, the people responsible for bringing numerous businesses into the Park corridor, purchasing countless dupers for rehab [[with added rebates for renters who are in school) and then took over the floundering Red Crown restaurant are the ones who purchased Arts Liquor and simply closed it.

It was a beacon for lingering drunks and loiterers. We see them no longer.

It does amaze me the double standard being passed off in this thread. GPP should feel free to do as it pleases with its roads and traffic. If you don't like it, take another route.

[Bham1982]

The ironic thing is that GPP is probably one of the least biased towns in Metro Detroit.

If one were a racist, or even merely had discomfort around black people, one could hardly find a less logical residence than GPP. It's now a diverse town, and, because neighboring Detroit areas are 95%+ black, there is obviously a large presence of African Americans most places in the Pointes.

[Dan Wesson]

racist generalizations are only verboten when made ABOUT Detroiters...when made BY Detroiters it's just a statement of common knowledge.

I'm slowly picking up on that...

I can testify that street is not blocked or one way. It's a two way.

[ABetterDetroit]

Why even care? Never heard of "fences make good neighbors"? I don't live in either city but I spend thousands every year in Detroit, I will go out of my way to spend my money in the D. I cant even remember the last time I spent a dime in GP. The reality is GP needs Detroit a hell of a lot more than Detroit needs GP. If Detroit were farm fields instead of a city GP wouldn't have ever existed. Snow will melt, it always does.

[Bham1982]

The reality is GP needs Detroit a hell of a lot more than Detroit needs GP. If Detroit were farm fields instead of a city GP wouldn't have ever existed. Snow will melt, it always does.

Using that logic, Detroit is permanently indebted to French fur-trappers and European colonialists/empire builders.

In the real world, Detroit is a huge drag on basically everything in the Pointes. The reason the Pointes are more affordable than crappier suburbs is only because of proximity to horrible areas in Detroit.

[Honky Tonk]

Why even care? Never heard of "fences make good neighbors"? I don't live in either city but I spend thousands every year in Detroit, I will go out of my way to spend my money in the D. I cant even remember the last time I spent a dime in GP. The reality is GP needs Detroit a hell of a lot more than Detroit needs GP. If Detroit were farm fields instead of a city GP wouldn't have ever existed. Snow will melt, it always does.

First of all, Thanx for visiting and spending money in the "D". We really appreciate your repeat business. Second of all, you base this on what? If it wasn't for GP, all the affluent Detroiters would have no place to move to.

[iheartthed]

because neighboring Detroit areas are 95%+ black, there is obviously a large presence of African Americans most places in the Pointes.

That is not obvious and is not true. Communities with a history of extreme racial exclusionary policies have been relatively slow to attract middle class black residents. Despite being right next to Detroit, GPP is significantly less black than Farmington Hills, a city which does not have the same history of discriminatory practices against minorities. Dearborn also has a lower percentage of black residents than it might otherwise have, apparently due to its history of racial discriminatory practices.

[Honky Tonk]

Do any of you "GP haters" ACTUALLY go into GP? If so, do you just drive through, or get out of your cars and go into the retail shops? Maybe we're talking about two different GP's, like on the old Star Trek series, you know, parallel universes and such. Because when I go there, "I see Black People". They live there, they hang out there, they're employed there. They seem to get along with the "White People". The difference is, GP is a safer enviornment then Detroit, and businesses actually stay open later. Street lights are on. It feels warm and fuzzy. I could be wrong, though. Maybe all the "White People", in the wee hours of the night, put on white sheets and hoods, and dance around caldrons? Perhaps some actual "White" GP residents could shed light on this ancient ritual?

[TKshreve]

Do any of you "GP haters" ACTUALLY go into GP? If so, do you just drive through, or get out of your cars and go into the retail shops? Maybe we're talking about two different GP's, like on the old Star Trek series, you know, parallel universes and such. Because when I go there, "I see Black People". They live there, they hang out there, they're employed there. They seem to get along with the "White People". The difference is, GP is a safer enviornment then Detroit, and businesses actually stay open later. Street lights are on. It feels warm and fuzzy. I could be wrong, though. Maybe all the "White People", in the wee hours of the night, put on white sheets and hoods, and dance around caldrons? Perhaps some actual "White" GP residents could shed light on this ancient ritual?

I think the general consensus amongst the white GP community is if you are black and from Detroit, you are more than welcome to move in, pay your taxes and live viably with the community. However, if you bring ghetto tendencies and/or a thug mantra with you, I cannot guarantee local GP'ers will treat you with respect and open arms. That community prefers to hold itself to a higher standard of living and expectation. That means: mow your lawn, take the xmas decorations down at one point, drive responsibly, parent your children, etc.

This goes for all races, sexes, religions and socioeconomically diverse groups for that matter.

[Bham1982]

That is not obvious and is not true. Communities with a history of extreme racial exclusionary policies have been relatively slow to attract middle class black residents. Despite being right next to Detroit, GPP is significantly less black than Farmington Hills, a city which does not have the same history of discriminatory practices against minorities. Dearborn also has a lower percentage of black residents than it might otherwise have, apparently due to its history of racial discriminatory practices.

Farmington Hills is adjacent to majority-black Southfield. The two communities are not that different economically, so it makes sense there would be such demographic patterns.

In contrast the Pointes are much wealthier than adjacent areas of Detroit, so it makes sense that the in-migration would be somewhat less. But the Pointes still have an extremely fast growing black population. GP North High has a large black population, and the earlier grade levels are larger still.

[iheartthed]

Farmington Hills is adjacent to majority-black Southfield. The two communities are not that different economically, so it makes sense there would be such demographic patterns.

In contrast the Pointes are much wealthier than adjacent areas of Detroit, so it makes sense that the in-migration would be somewhat less. But the Pointes still have an extremely fast growing black population. GP North High has a large black population, and the earlier grade levels are larger still.

This still does not answer why Farmington Hills has a higher percentage of black people than Grosse Pointe Park. There are relatively affluent Detroit neighborhoods that are in close proximity to Grosse Pointe. But for some reason, middle class black families largely leapfrogged settling in the Pointes. Again, I'm sure it has a lot to do with the history of GP and not because Farmington Hills is closer to Southfield. Looking further north and west West Bloomfield has a similar percentage of black residents as GPP, although a much higher count of actual black residents due to its larger population. West Bloomfield doesn't border Southfield and is pretty far from Detroit. There are no traditional "black" cities in close proximity. So why do more black families choose to live there than GPP, which borders the blackest major city in America?

[Detroitnerd]

Nerd, you are 100% wrong here.

Actually, judging by your defense of alla them generous people in white-collar burbs, I'm more like 5 percent wrong.

[Bham1982]

I grew up in that general area, and I'm pretty confident that WB and FH have a large black population, in significant part due to proximity to Southfield and NW Detroit. NW Detroit was historically the biggest upwardly mobile middle class and professional black area, and, as suburbanization occurred, black families first moved into Southfield and later into West Bloomfield and Farmington Hills.


In contrast, the East Side doesn't have as much black wealth, and suburbanized decades later [[Southfield had majority black schools way back in the 80's, while East Side Detroit-adjacent districts had barely a black student as recent as 2000).

So in short, while I think racism can play a role in migration patterns, I think the main driver of Oakland County black wealth is the fact that Oakland County is NW Detroit-adjacent. Upwardly mobile blacks followed Jews outward.

[iheartthed]

The Jews also went northwest because of discrimination: http://www.jta.org/1960/06/22/archiv...h-point-system