Broderick Tower Official Thread

[staticstate]

once a year that building serves as a venue for the renovation team and select friends to get together and watch the fireworks.

[Hermod]

Why do we always tease ourselves? One building closes down, another gets renovated. It's a viscous cycle around here. I'm happy in fact if the Broderick is FINALLY going to get redeveloped, but hell now the Stott is closing. Every time it's 1 step forward, 2 steps back in this city. It does seem that a lot of projects that were ready to go before the recession hit are either starting up or are getting back on track, but some sustained momentum for once would be nice. If everything going on downtown is lining up the way it looks to be, a REAL revival of downtown may be just around the corner here. But I'll still be cautiously optimistic....

Detroit needs "x" square feet of office space. If there is "x + y" square feet available, "y" square feet will be vacant. Unless you grow the demand for office space in the downtown, improving an office building means that another less improved one will empty out.

[gumby]

Umm they are not going to be built out as offices. Last I checked they would be residential therefore have no negative affect on the glut of office space. If anything one less vacant building will make remaining office space a little more attractive.

[Hermod]

Umm they are not going to be built out as offices. Last I checked they would be residential therefore have no negative affect on the glut of office space. If anything one less vacant building will make remaining office space a little more attractive.

Fine, then they can add to the condo glut.

[detroitdoc]

Last I heard they are going to be rentals...at least for now. Rentals fill fast downtown. I would think all the University students take them. For example, the Kales is full. I know the Ellington is renting a few condos for now and they are full as well.

[DetroitDad]

Last night, while watching the fireworks from a parking garage in midtown, we all noticed the entire Northeast corner of the Broderick tower had lights on. Looked as though a stairwell or shaft of some sort was lit. Any information?

Yes, the Broderick Tower has been heavily vandalized, with various windows opened, broken out, and boards ripped out. I'm guessing the lights that have been on had something to do with this or it's repair [[?). The advertising banner has also came crashing down. Good news only if you like the whale mural.

See; Lower Woodward Heavily Vandalized.

[detroitbob66]

It is very nice to see Wyland's Whale Mural again,...it has been quite some time since I have seen it....Im glad the banner came crashing down and they should leave it like this!

[mtburb]

Me counted, I expected the Droid ad on the Broderick returning from the Tigers game Sunday, but instead something familiar. It was the whale mural! So I also notice that the ad has been destroyed.

[BrushStart]

Does anyone know what is going on with the Broderick? I coulda swore something was supposed to happen with it this summer. Now, it's mid-September, and still, nothing... This building is the biggest shame in all of downtown. I walk by the Broderick nearly everyday and I can't believe that amongst all of the new life sprouting around it, this building has not been redeveloped. Apartments and condos in the Broderick could look right into Comerica Park's infield and residents would be at eye-level with the Freedom Fesitival fireworks. Yet, it sits there and rots; right up in your face. It is like a pillar of failure for all to see. Even as Woodward Avenue progresses and Park Avenue is populated with people, the Broderick stands as an ode to Detroit's continuing struggle, overlooking the people below.

[esp1986]

Does anyone know what is going on with the Broderick? I coulda swore something was supposed to happen with it this summer. Now, it's mid-September, and still, nothing... This building is the biggest shame in all of downtown. I walk by the Broderick nearly everyday and I can't believe that amongst all of the new life sprouting around it, this building has not been redeveloped. Apartments and condos in the Broderick could look right into Comerica Park's infield and residents would be at eye-level with the Freedom Fesitival fireworks. Yet, it sits there and rots; right up in your face. It is like a pillar of failure for all to see. Even as Woodward Avenue progresses and Park Avenue is populated with people, the Broderick stands as an ode to Detroit's continuing struggle, overlooking the people below.

You are right, something WAS supposed to happen. Fred Beal, of Beal Construction, said in a letter to the Michigan House, that construction could begin within 90 days of receiving another tax credit. That tax credit, was approved by the legislature, and signed into law by Michigan's "Governor" last December. 90 Days came and went, and now here we are. However, I did read back in July, an article in which the writer spoke with Fred Beal about the construction market and his outlook for it. I can't remember, nor find, the exact quote, but it was something to the tune of 'they are in the final stages of securing financing for the project, and hopeful construction will begin in 2010.' But considering that this project was supposed to start in mid-2007 [[according to JC Beal's website), before the market really even tanked, I have lost all hope. I myself have actually been looking at relocating downtown, and this is one of the buildings I was hoping I would be able to consider, so much for that idea.

[lincoln8740]

You are right, something WAS supposed to happen. Fred Beal, of Beal Construction, said in a letter to the Michigan House, that construction could begin within 90 days of receiving another tax credit. That tax credit, was approved by the legislature, and signed into law by Michigan's "Governor" last December. 90 Days came and went, and now here we are. However, I did read back in July, an article in which the writer spoke with Fred Beal about the construction market and his outlook for it. I can't remember, nor find, the exact quote, but it was something to the tune of 'they are in the final stages of securing financing for the project, and hopeful construction will begin in 2010.' But considering that this project was supposed to start in mid-2007 [[according to JC Beal's website), before the market really even tanked, I have lost all hope. I myself have actually been looking at relocating downtown, and this is one of the buildings I was hoping I would be able to consider, so much for that idea.

Its crazy to think about the amount of "grease" he spread around Lansing to get those tax credits and now that he has them the project still can't get off the ground.

I think its proof of just how bad the market is in Detroit right now.

[BrushStart]

Its crazy to think about the amount of "grease" he spread around Lansing to get those tax credits and now that he has them the project still can't get off the ground.

I think its proof of just how bad the market is in Detroit right now.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're painting all of Detroit with the same brush. The market is bad in Detroit as a whole, however, Detroit is 140 square miles. I don't think the market in downtown, midtown, and some places along the river are even comparable to the rest of Detroit. They might as well be entirely different cities- pretty much isolated from the rest of the city. The location of the Broderick is arguably the most desirable urban location in all of Michigan. I can't name another that trumps it. It is across the street from Comerica Park, Ford Field, and the trendiest bars and restaurants in Detroit, and it already has retail at the ground level. If that building was renovated, everything in my soul tells me that those units would sell like wildfire. The Broderick is seriously unbeatable. If people won't live at the Broderick, then people won't live anywhere in downtown Detroit period. That proposition would fly in the face of all the current evidence. Downtown and Midtown are steadily growing while the rest of Detroit is rapidly contracting.

[esp1986]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're painting all of Detroit with the same brush. The market is bad in Detroit as a whole, however, Detroit is 140 square miles. I don't think the market in downtown, midtown, and some places along the river are even comparable to the rest of Detroit. They might as well be entirely different cities- pretty much isolated from the rest of the city. The location of the Broderick is arguably the most desirable urban location in all of Michigan. I can't name another that trumps it. It is across the street from Comerica Park, Ford Field, and the trendiest bars and restaurants in Detroit, and it already has retail at the ground level. If that building was renovated, everything in my soul tells me that those units would sell like wildfire. The Broderick is seriously unbeatable. If people won't live at the Broderick, then people won't live anywhere in downtown Detroit period. That proposition would fly in the face of all the current evidence. Downtown and Midtown are steadily growing while the rest of Detroit is rapidly contracting.

While I don't truly believe that the units would 'sell like wildfire,' [[see Book-Cadillac condos) I do believe that they would move, as downtown's residential situation is becoming tight. However, I think this is more of an indication of the Beal's unwillingness to take a risk with redevelopment. They want to be 100% sure they will meet their goal, rather than risk breaking even and doing something positive for the city. Now, I can't exactly say I blame them, but for a group that has come to essentially label themselves as 'urban redeveloper extrodinaires' [[see Fred Beal's LinkedIn page) as well as aiming to be one of the big game changers and risk takers in turning downtown around, the more time that passes without a renovated Broderick, the more they stare down the road of hypocrisy.

[davewindsor]

While I don't truly believe that the units would 'sell like wildfire,' [[see Book-Cadillac condos) I do believe that they would move, as downtown's residential situation is becoming tight. However, I think this is more of an indication of the Beal's unwillingness to take a risk with redevelopment. They want to be 100% sure they will meet their goal, rather than risk breaking even and doing something positive for the city. Now, I can't exactly say I blame them, but for a group that has come to essentially label themselves as 'urban redeveloper extrodinaires' [[see Fred Beal's LinkedIn page) as well as aiming to be one of the big game changers and risk takers in turning downtown around, the more time that passes without a renovated Broderick, the more they stare down the road of hypocrisy.

I wouldn't say hypocrite and I don't believe they would move at a break even point anymore. I can understand Beal's hesistation at this point after reading the Omni thread where Ferchill is getting raped by Wells Fargo over losing the Hilton Garden to foreclosure. Ferchill overleveraged himself with the Book reno and is losing buildings and it's sending a ripple effect to other large scale developers where they are scared of overleveraging themselves and going down the same path. I'd be surprised if there's going to be any other large scale development going on after this. Unless buyers are willing to fork up the coin in pre-condo sales, I wouldn't hold my breath. Maybe he's trying to sell himself as a "redeveloper eztrodinaire" for precondo sales, but it doesn't look like buyers are interested in precondo sales in downtown like they are in Chicago and Manhattan.

[esp1986]

I wouldn't say hypocrite and I don't believe they would move at a break even point anymore. I can understand Beal's hesistation at this point after reading the Omni thread where Ferchill is getting raped by Wells Fargo over losing the Hilton Garden to foreclosure. Ferchill overleveraged himself with the Book reno and is losing buildings and it's sending a ripple effect to other large scale developers where they are scared of overleveraging themselves and going down the same path. I'd be surprised if there's going to be any other large scale development going on after this. Unless buyers are willing to fork up the coin in pre-condo sales, I wouldn't hold my breath. Maybe he's trying to sell himself as a "redeveloper eztrodinaire" for precondo sales, but it doesn't look like buyers are interested in precondo sales in downtown like they are in Chicago and Manhattan.

Well, with Ferchill, the difference is he is losing hotels. The apartments in the Fort Shelby are better than 95% leased, and the Book-Cadillac is not far behind. There has come to be an oversaturation of hotels downtown, with the aforementioned Hilton Garden Inn, the Westin, Doubletree and all three new casino hotels. The problem is, there is a lack of residential, with the infusion of workers downtown had seen this year and will continue to see through next year. Washington Square is at it's highest occupancy ever, almost all of the new apartments/condos/lofts are occupied. There is no better time to go through with a project like this. As a resident of the state of Michigan, I feel that they need to be true to their word and go through with this project. They promised within 90 days of the most recent tax credit, they would begin construction. I think that since the taxpayers are footing part of the bill for this building for the sake of creating jobs, they need to live up to their promise and actually make the project happen.

[Gistok]

Fine, then they can add to the condo glut.

First you complain about an office glut... then upon hear that they would be condo's you complain of a condo glut.... how about they do nothing... then they can have an empty building glut....

[wolverine]

If this is rental, I think it would fill up quickly. Last I heard, there was demand for rental apartment downtown. It's not like a condo building where you can gauge its success by the number of condos sold before closing. You just trust that they will get rented by neighborhood demand [[which exists). I mean, you have vintage architecture, 36 stories high, beautiful views, windows on all sides, steps from CM, riverfront, and the stadiums. How much better can the location get in Detroit?

[mwilbert]

I think there is demand for more rental units downtown, but of course that depends upon what the rents would be. It isn't necessarily the case that it would be enough to cover the cost of the renovation, even factoring in the credits. On the other hand, if they thought the numbers worked a year ago, it seems likely they would work now. Perhaps they are having difficulty with financing.

[rsa.313]

who said they were developing condo's? to utilize the tax credits they're using a stipulation is that it must remain rental for at least 5 years.

[esp1986]

who said they were developing condo's? to utilize the tax credits they're using a stipulation is that it must remain rental for at least 5 years.

The plan for this project all along has been for rental, which would make this doable. They are only being compared to the other condos around downtown in terms of occupancy. The only mention of condos in relation to the Broderick has been, years down the road, the possible conversion to condos to recoup a big portion of the investment.

[davewindsor]

Well, with Ferchill, the difference is he is losing hotels. The apartments in the Fort Shelby are better than 95% leased, and the Book-Cadillac is not far behind. There has come to be an oversaturation of hotels downtown, with the aforementioned Hilton Garden Inn, the Westin, Doubletree and all three new casino hotels. The problem is, there is a lack of residential, with the infusion of workers downtown had seen this year and will continue to see through next year. Washington Square is at it's highest occupancy ever, almost all of the new apartments/condos/lofts are occupied. There is no better time to go through with a project like this. As a resident of the state of Michigan, I feel that they need to be true to their word and go through with this project. They promised within 90 days of the most recent tax credit, they would begin construction. I think that since the taxpayers are footing part of the bill for this building for the sake of creating jobs, they need to live up to their promise and actually make the project happen.

Wait, did you say an oversaturation of hotels in downtown Detroit? Downtown has had an oversaturation of hotel rooms for the past 40 years. The Statler alone had over 1000 rooms, over 5 times the size of the Hilton Garden. And there's been many large hotels in downtown that have been knocked down in past decade. Downtown has less hotel rooms than it did 50 years ago. Is there an overall net improvement of decent paying jobs downtown to support a demand for the revitalization of the Broderick as luxury condos? Why did office towers like the Book Tower and David Stott shut its doors in the past year? Why is 1001 Woodward almost empty? Is Washington Square faring better because of an improving downtown economy or did residents just move there from other buildings that went bankrupt and closed their doors? .

Everything works in harmony. If there's an infusion of jobs, there's an infusion of new businesses that rent commercial space and also an infusion of demand for more hotel rooms. It's all related. You don't just improve the number of jobs without seeing improvement in other aspects of the economy in downtown. A newer building like Hilton Garden being lost to foreclosure is a premonition of other real estate ventures going under. All the big lenders are going to be wary of it. A major developer in downtown like Ferchill losing a building to foreclosure in downtown is going to be a big black ink stain on the white dress shirts of any other major developer looking to finance another major real estate venture in downtown.

[esp1986]

Wait, did you say an oversaturation of hotels in downtown Detroit? Downtown has had an oversaturation of hotel rooms for the past 40 years. The Statler alone had over 1000 rooms, over 5 times the size of the Hilton Garden. And there's been many large hotels in downtown that have been knocked down in past decade. Downtown has less hotel rooms than it did 50 years ago. Is there an overall net improvement of decent paying jobs downtown to support a demand for the revitalization of the Broderick as luxury condos? Why did office towers like the Book Tower and David Stott shut its doors in the past year? Why is 1001 Woodward almost empty? Is Washington Square faring better because of an improving downtown economy or did residents just move there from other buildings that went bankrupt and closed their doors? .

Everything works in harmony. If there's an infusion of jobs, there's an infusion of new businesses that rent commercial space and also an infusion of demand for more hotel rooms. It's all related. You don't just improve the number of jobs without seeing improvement in other aspects of the economy in downtown. A newer building like Hilton Garden being lost to foreclosure is a premonition of other real estate ventures going under. All the big lenders are going to be wary of it. A major developer in downtown like Ferchill losing a building to foreclosure in downtown is going to be a big black ink stain on the white dress shirts of any other major developer looking to finance another major real estate venture in downtown.

I don't disagree with you on a lot of those notes. However, most of the jobs coming to downtown are coming to facilities that have had vacancies since their construction/renovations by their owners. 3,000 BCBS employees to the RenCen which has been well under capacity since GM renovated it. 1,700 Gilbert employees coming to One Campus Martius, again, well under capacity since Compuware built it.

The Book Tower closing in 2008/2009 is the result of a deteriorating facility. The Stott closed because the developer apparently didn't want to deal with it anymore. So those two buildings are their own unique case, and their occupancy rates haven't been very high in years.

The Statler and Fort Shelby are both kind of the same situation. Both were in need of renovations at the same time, and money couldn't be found so they both closed between '77 and '79. The Book-Cadillac followed suit in 1984. There was not enough money to go around, so they all closed. Then all of a sudden, there are six-seven new/redeveloped hotels at the same time in the early-mid 2000s. The only saving grace for the Book-Cadillac and the Fort Shelby projects to this point is the fact that they are making money on the apartments/condos, which are both at above 90% capacity.

The Millender Center and Washington Square Apartments, downtown's two largest residential developements are experiencing their highest occupancy rates ever, and there haven't been any residential developments closing like there have been in terms of under occupied office buildings.

Most of the buildings downtown that have closed have had problems for years, with no capital for a necessary renovation. The recent infusion of jobs has been to buildings that have never been full. The mass addition of hotels to downtown was with an eye to the future, and a major downtown boom. The economy has dampered that a bit and we are now seeing them fail as a result. A number of residential projects planned for downtown to handle the people who would have gone to the Quicken headquarters, have fallen through due to the lack of financing available. However, even though Quicken has yet to build downtown, half of those employees are still coming down there, and then another 3,000 employees from Blue Cross/Blue Shield will join them.

So, there is a demand for residential developments downtown, it is just unfortunate that one or two of the developments didn't get off the ground before the economy collapsed, because now we are seeing a shortage of residential developments. While businesses have moved around town a bit, the same is not the case with residential. Dan Duggan of Crain's Detroit recently posted a blog detailing how most of the downtown areas residential developments are nearly full. Including Merchant's Row, Washington Square, Fost Shelby and the Book-Cadillac.

So residential is definately an area of need downtown, but the hotels were all added with an eye to the future, a future that has been slowed by the economy, and we are now seeing the fallout, but that is not the case with residential.

[lincoln8740]

Well, with Ferchill, the difference is he is losing hotels. There has come to be an oversaturation of hotels downtown, with the aforementioned Hilton Garden Inn, the Westin, Doubletree and all three new casino hotels. .

Uhh I believe someone stated this very fact a year ago and you were all over him saying it was not true.

They have been quitely shopping the Westin around to those who have the cash to make it happen--so far no takers.

[lo_to_d]

Anyone know anything about the start of interior demolition at the Broderick?

[drjeff]

Is that actually happening?